Forgive and “not” forget.

[Nerovar]

Alliance suffers from a collective soy-induced psychosis.

Welcome to the new World of Warcraft where everyone is equal, equally good and bad things only happen because good people get manipulated by mustache twirling villains so there are no consequences.

[VladlTutushkin]

It’s hard to decide who got shat on more this xpac. Is it Alliance who are reduced to peace loving Anduin sucking morons who are big meanies if they don’t agree with anduin? Or is it the Horde who is forced to watch an old orc with memory issues break down multiple times in cinematics until he proudly gets one shot by the only Horde character that wasn’t an Alliance suckup, and for that reason a big meanie?

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I’d actually resub to watch Baine get shoved out a tower window.

Alliance got shafted harder. At least Horde did something this expack and had their “fist pump moment” while Alliance just... was there to be a victim.

[Tabrotar]

The winners were very kind to Germany after WW1, especially compared to what they did to France in 1870. Stop falling for this german/american propaganda that the reason Germans went full nazi was because of France. The treaty was never enforced btw.

Yeah shure, the france president at that time was warned again and again that having that "treaty" would push germany in that direction but he was so fucking butthurt that he wouldn´t hear any of it. And low and behold we got WW2 out of it, who would have guessed...

[Talrath]

The Problem is that anduin never experienced the terror of the horde, only those who have are against the peace. Varian experienced it but anduin managed to make him a softy, same as genn and jaina. Every person anduin touches changes to a peace lover, what if the old golds and death want peace, since times of peace makes people soft.

Regarding Tyrande, well the only people who can remotely calm her down are Malfurion or any elven faction leader. Lets just say that lorthemar secretly helps Tyrande out of guilt that something like the burning of teldrassil happend. He should have known about it or withdrawn his forces from the horde and go to the alliancr, since anduin would love to get more people on his side. Thats when anduin decided they can attack undercity with the help of silvermoon city.

Following the blighting of undercity, sylvanis is pissed that lorthemar betrayed her and goes to zandalari for getting help. They can change the story of zandalar where they have a big army which is the same as the orcish army pre legion, so them getting in the horde will cover the spot of bloodelves and kultirans.

[Trassk]

Falstadt, Moira and Velen, seeing common sense that continuing to seek war for the sake of vengence is pointless and just want the conflict to end.

Tyrande and the alliance fans - behaves like reactionary playground children who can't let shit go. If this was a real situation, I'd call such idiots out as not giving a shit about the survivors who just want to rebuild or find peace, instead you people just would sooner see more dead on both sides.


Oh, and as an aside, you lot crying about how the alliance got screwed over in this conflict, guess what, WAR KILLS PEOPLE, This is what you wanted when you cried endlessly for "BUT ITS WORLD OF WAAAAARRCRAFT, I WANT WAR IN WARCRAFT, WAAAAAAHH!!", This shit happens in war, and now you can't deal with the aftermath.

You people really are some of the worst fandoms I've witnessed, worse then comic book or cartoon fandoms..

[Friendlyimmolation]

Alliance got shafted harder. At least Horde did something this expack and had their “fist pump moment” while Alliance just... was there to be a victim.

I don’t think listening to idiots scream honor for minutes on end made any Horde fan happy. Atleast the writers at blizzard are brave enough to teach lessons like war is bad and makes people sad and also die sometimes.

Edit: you see one post above me? Atleast someone enjoyed their moral lesson.

[Arrashi]

Why are people surprised? You saw what happened to horde leaders, and alliance is supposed to be boring faction so it was obvious outcome.

[Trassk]

Alliance suffers from a collective soy-induced psychosis.

Welcome to the new World of Warcraft where everyone is equal, equally good and bad things only happen because good people get manipulated by mustache twirling villains so there are no consequences.

I don't doubt this is part of the reason why, an overpowering sense of millennial entitlement

[Arrashi]

I don’t think listening to idiots scream honor for minutes on end made any Horde fan happy. Atleast the writers at blizzard are brave enough to teach lessons like war is bad and makes people sad and also die sometimes.

This is incredible case of horde bias.

[Dagoth Ur]

Even though I feel for you, I'd say damage done to the Horde is more substantial/long term one though since they're basically changing it on conceptual level to show us how autocracy was bad and Warchief was the source of all the problems.

I mean, they're surgically removing everything that made the Horde Horde because Alliance's way of running things is the right one and it took only this long for Horde to realize that.

After this shit show is over and despite what you think of Alliance's "managment", you'll still get to play the Alliance pretty much how it was, while the Horde will be pretty much unrecognizable. I really don't see why we need two factions at this point from in-universe perspective.

[VladlTutushkin]

This is incredible case of horde bias.

Horde at least got to burn Teldrassil and there is still possible Kerrigan scenario for Stlvanus so...

[Dagoth Ur]

This is incredible case of horde bias.

Tfw you're so Horde biased, you're basically changing the Horde from the ground up to be more compatible with the Alliance's world police story lines.

That's just how much they've preferred Horde's way of running things!

[VladlTutushkin]

Even though I feel for you, I'd say damage done to the Horde is more substantial/long term one though since they're basically changing it on conceptual level to show us how autocracy was bad and Warchief was the source of all the problems.

I mean, they're surgically removing everything that made the Horde Horde because Alliance's way of running things is the right one and it took only this long for Horde to realize that.

After this shit show is over and despite what you think of Alliance's "managment", you'll still get to play the Alliance pretty much how it was, while the Horde will be pretty much unrecognizable. I really don't see why we need two factions at this point from in-universe perspective.

The thing is. Alliance completely devaluated and destroyed itself - its purpose to be a defensive alliance is not just undermined, it is sabotaged by its own King. Alliance cannot protect its members, cannot guarantee their vengeance and will even blame them for wanting to retaliate. Horde, be it ruled by Council or Warchief is still Horde and fulfills its role of more or less keeping its races safe and arguably prosperous. While what is Alliance even for now? It became an opposite of its purpose.

[Arrashi]

Horde at least got to burn Teldrassil and there is still possible Kerrigan scenario for Stlvanus so...

That makes me so moist. That moment when we got to talk to sylvanas and part of skybox changed....unforgettable experience.

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Tfw you're so Horde biased, you're basically changing the Horde from the ground up to be more compatible with the Alliance's world police story lines.

That's just how much they've preferred Horde's way of running things!

Horde bias played us like a damn fiddle.

[Raisei]

The less you think, the happier you'll be for it.

I try hard every day, with only mixed success.

The faction pride atm is indeed a result of marketing and running an expansion based on faction war, there were after all literal adds calling us to "Choose your side" and if no actual bar fights broke out irl over this expansion then it is only because us MMO-Players rarely go to bars. This faction pride did indeed override previous racial prides to unify people in their corner, which is the only way it could have been in a game with two factions. And I am not liking it any more then you.

As a Void Elf player on most of my characters I was probably facing family on the battlefield, still fighting for Silvermoon. None of that was touched upon of course, the Void Elves joined the Alliance because the Belfs were mean and one other elf was nice (pretty much the exact reverse of what happened to the Nightborn) so we are now killing our families because they are not Belfs but Horde and I am not Velf but Alliance. At least the Pandas got a stern talk from Varian about the other Pandas being their enemies now and old friendships do not count. More then the allied races got...

I see two ways to solve this issue with varying degrees of satisfaction:

1) We do indeed get into the Unifaction. Neither Horde not Alliance exists, every race has an equally powerful leader in a joined council. Conflicts would continue not between factions, but between the races. They can be economic, militaristic or even religious. The Nightelfs could seek vegeance on the Forsaken or whoever, and the Zandalari go after the Kul'tirans/Humans for Jaina's role in killing Rastakhan. None of which would break the council, diplomatic relations in war times are completely normal and the other races could try to profit from or stop the interracial wars.
As a goody for the Anduin haters, this would effectvely eliminate the position of High King and Anduin would rule just the humans.

2) We continue the faction wars indefinately, but then we need to have them A LOT more involved and looking a lot more at the details. Remove factors like Azshara and N'zoth, the faction war can be the main story. I would like to see racial stories under the overarching plot. How do things effect the people that are fighting in the war? Would my Velf not try to safe her family from Silvermoon if the Alliance ever attacked it? Would she follow orders or sneak away? There is tons of potential here, that has gone unused and that is, I think, why a continuation of the faction conflict in the way it has been for now does not excite me at all.

man i cant believe leaders who have seen their people die for stupid, pointless, wars that drain their resources, morale, and numbers would be willing to stop fighting.

its truly shocking.

You aren't wrong, but the issue is not that the war ends. The issue is HOW it ends. At the moment it seems to end in a very unsatisfactory way especially for the Alliance that has had huge losses during these last two years. We did not start the war (despite that Stormheim meme going around) and we did not even actually end it because the evil psychopath got away and took all the blame with her.

Now all the warcrimes, death and destruction of the war is pinned on one person and the Alliance has no way to actually get revenge for it. Meanwhile the people who swung the swords and threw the plague bombs all say they are innocent and our leaders just ACCEPT this and move on.

No wonder people are pissed, both ingame and irl. Two years we build up emotions, anger, sadness, hate and now at the finale we are just supposed to FORGET and SWALLOW those, it doesn't work like that.
When BFA started, when the Burning of Teldrassil happened, the reaction on my server was crazy and awesome. Hundreds of players formed raid groups, flew to Orgrimmar on their charred Nelf mounts and stormed the city to kill Sylvanas where she stood, then we went to Thunder Bluff to kill Baine (because why not) and then to Silvermoon. Just because there was need for an outlet of the emotions that the genocide of the Nightelves created. An outlet such as this was necessary in the story arc, but it never happened, it was denied to us. That is why it is so hard for people to accept the result as we have been given it for now.

[Dagoth Ur]

The thing is. Alliance completely devaluated and destroyed itself - its purpose to be a defensive alliance is not just undermined, it is sabotaged by its own King. Alliance cannot protect its members, cannot guarantee their vengeance and will even blame them for wanting to retaliate. Horde, be it ruled by Council or Warchief is still Horde and fulfills its role of more or less keeping its races safe and arguably prosperous. While what is Alliance even for now? It became an opposite of its purpose.

Oh I see where we differed. I was thinking more from out of universe perspective. From in universe perspective, you're right that it's Alliance who seems to be wearing the clown nose on, while the Horde pretty much got off scott free.

I think it's more of a matter of losing respect for your faction vs faction being conceptually changed. Personally, latter just seems worse to me since it seems more permanent harder to "heal" from.

[Lord Pebbleton]

First of all, fuck Velen.
Second, are we really giving the horde another future chance to choose between peace and war? They want war. They always chose war. It came to a point where it would be out of character for the horde to not start a war.

But yes, let's smile at the bright future all together holding hands, at least until we collide with a grunt's axe.

[VladlTutushkin]

Oh I see where we differed. I was thinking more from out of universe perspective. From in universe perspective, you're right that it's Alliance who seems to be wearing the clown nose on, while the Horde pretty much got off scott free.

I think it's more of a matter of losing respect for your faction vs faction being conceptually changed. Personally, latter just seems worse to me since it seems more permanent harder to "heal" from.

Warchief or Council is not that much of a difference imho. But when DEFENSIVE alliance dosent defend its likes... race horse that dosent race, airplane that cant fly, a car that cant drive.

[Friendlyimmolation]

First of all, fuck Velen.
Second, are we really giving the horde another future chance to choose between peace and war? They want war. They always chose war. It came to a point where it would be out of character for the horde to not start a war.

But yes, let's smile at the bright future all together holding hands, at least until we collide with a grunt's axe.

I mean would getting axed in the face while the orc weeps and screams honor at you really be much of a worse fate than this?

[VladlTutushkin]

First of all, fuck Velen.
Second, are we really giving the horde another future chance to choose between peace and war? They want war. They always chose war. It came to a point where it would be out of character for the horde to not start a war.

But yes, let's smile at the bright future all together holding hands, at least until we collide with a grunt's axe.

That. Any sane person would NEVER trust someone so easy to goad into war of annihilation as Horde.
“B-but Horde Council now!”
Yes and we all know that a strong and charismatic warhawk leader will NEVER form a coalition with a Council and strongarm a pro-war decision or blackmail other councilors or hell, just throw a coup and create a junta.