Those bastards deleted half of my favorite Rogue buttons. Pruning and class design is the one and only reason I quit playing retail.
Those bastards deleted half of my favorite Rogue buttons. Pruning and class design is the one and only reason I quit playing retail.
Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA
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Don't hate my rig, there's nothing quite like the classics.
I dont really mind the classes that much abit boring compared to legion. However main problem is game is not a MMORPG anymore its a online game to kill bosses and mythic+ its not an RPG anymore they have slowly been killing of everything except those 2 things. Getting 15min of story every few weeks i mean wtf.
Lol I don't hear people saying "too complicated" anymore though lol. R.I.P Feral "rotation". You know what, I think it really was just feral that brought down wow abilities. The only two specs you'll ever hear people bring up in regards to rotational complexity is feral and sometimes sub rogues sneak in (get it?). Maybe aff too w/ CoA, Corr, Immo, SL, SB all being regularly used abilities in their rotation.
My Collection
- Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -Kill myself
That is kind of proper argument, thing is MMO cannot have good story and expecting something on level of lets say witcher 3 is gonna get you dissapointed. I mean look at all previous expansions, story sucked back then. Reason is pretty simple, to have a good story it must have some consequences and real choices, can't have that in mmo.
All they can do is to make story longer and more interesting. But then again, it needs to get the fuck away from all that old-gods, uber-threats stuff and focus more on character interactions. Having big bad guy you need to defeat each expansion is just damn boring at this point.
And people been blaming all the other stuff while refusing to acknowledge this pattern just got stale and boring.
Talent design isn't bad at all. Any talent system SHOULD enhance the spec and offer many internal builds and combinations that take advantage of many ways of using said spec.
Class cores don't function outside of utility abilities and have not been functional in many years. In general, abilities that are available regardless of spec are considered core abilities. Most spec abilities are too differentiated outside of talents.
These abilities already and have decades of passive functionality baked into them from years of progressive iteration. That being said, it doesn't really excuse not having proper talent trees to evolve the core to that kind of specialization which Blizz makes freely available. There's A LOT of depth and intermediate progression that can be added. The gameplay of going from a basic class into a fully specialized version would make a lot of sense.
For instance, frost and arcane mages have zero fire abilities - zero core for an entire spell school, damage, utility or defensive. Mages do have great talents that enhance their specs / how the spec gets played. They used to have access to all, and at least fireblast in MoP which was a movement filler spell. Granted, there's many better instant casts now... and maybe having limited access to certain schools helps make frost and arcane feel much more specialized.
I just think the ideal of having both a foundation class be as functional of a whole spec, on its own, as a specialized version of the same class should be possible. No idea what that would even look like in terms of gameplay -- maybe like Vanilla. Abilities should never be lost or traded.. they should evolve.
Last edited by Elestia; 2019-10-25 at 05:06 AM.
The thing you and anyone else struggling to contribute here, needs to understand is that Blizzard is first and foremost a business aimed at making a profit. What started out as a small office culture driven group of gamers, struggling to survive in the gaming industry, quickly turned into a behemoth of a gaming devopler when Wow launched. Blizzard became gigantic because of Vanilla, saw what that success could do to their development ability, and promptly set out to recreate that success every two years.
Part of what keeps them going is Wow's success after each expansion launch... which is what leads to such large shifts in sub counts. To sit here and say that sub numbers don't matter... you don't seem to understand just how sub driven the game is. What they've realized the last two expansions is that new content alone can't keep subs up. Subs are doomed to be cyclical because of their two year design cycle. That's just how it is. I guarantee you, without numbers from other games, that no other Blizzard IP has a cyclical participation factor. There's a reason no other Blizzard IP follows the same release cycle: it wouldn't benefit the game or the company in any way.
They've been able to enjoy accidental success for 15 years, but that cow has gone dry. They've downsized dev teams, refocused resources around other IPs, laid off staff, changed out management, and are about to shift focus to a mobile diverse market (much to PC gamers dismay). You can talk type til your fingers fall off, otaXephon can disagree along side you.
Doesn't change facts. Concurrent sub numbers Do mean something in a game whose primary profit generator is... sub fees. Being more profitable is better than being less profitable (not a matter of opinion) due to the ability of profits to drive growth. Having more concurrent subs mean being more profitable. Later versions of the game having less concurrent subs, means they were less profitable. Them being less profitable, means they were worse designed versions of the game. Why they were, might be subjective. The fact that they were, not so much.
Really not hard logic to grasp. Try harder, guy.
I think you're choosing to ignore what we are really saying in favor of your favorite straw man to beat up... I don't think you're participating in this discussion at all. To acknowledge the game as stale and boring... would be a subjective opinion. Which isn't an opinion I have. I'm not bored by the game and it doesn't feel stale at all. I wish I had time to play again, honestly. I'd kill it in Classic. Finish leveling my druid and go raid some dungeons proper.Originally Posted by kaminaris
Hell, I'd even play my live account, probably buy the next expansion just to see where the game is going.
The game is definitely not stale or boring for most of the people trying to talk to you RN. Reducing the discussion to subjective opinions like this are exactly what we are trying to avoid. Just like calling specs one button specs and saying that makes two classes identical. It's absurd. Illogical nonsense.
As to the other part of what you said, how we're refusing to acknowledge some truth... when we post, we're giving you the truth. Giving you what is real. You're the one refusing to acknowledge it.
The part I wish you could handle is, I am agreeing with you when you say we don't have enough information. No census was done to determine data points related to why people stop playing. No where did anyone come forward and release data related to player surveys about their game after deciding to quit. At the very best, the most we can say about any reason players might have had for quitting is:Originally Posted by otaXephon
1. Some players quit.
2. They had a reason which fell into one of several categories, other players also happen to have for wanting to quit.
We can't say anything else about it, so this data is irrelevant. Subjectivity is subjective.
- HOWEVER -
We do have copious data points on the actual raw numbers of people paying to play a game over a long period of time (long enough to qualify as a case study) that show trends following timed content releases and what would be a natural depression in the numbers one could reasonably expect over the natural age of a game. These trends are further supported by sweeping changes taking place within the game during each content release, and sweeping changes to design policy on the development side of things.
From this data we absolutely can define Blizzards success at designing and maintaining a game over 15 years, concluding objectively that earlier design was more successful than later design. Whether anyone liked it or hated it, is a completely different story, as well as to the WHY they might have. We don't have that data and it wouldn't matter even if we did, because those are the very subjective notions you've sat here dismissing.
Now, that we're on the same page (hopefully), we can discuss more nuanced positions if you want.
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Don't hate my rig, there's nothing quite like the classics.
This is pure delusion and denial, desperately trying to justify your burnout with a game with blizzard and everything they did. But reality is all of your conclusion based on incomplete data are purely subjective and wrong.
And you do not understand the very basics. For a game to be profitable it must be fun. There is no way around it. People will simply leave the game and generate zero profit if WoW would be bad. And since no franchise can hold forever, playerbase will eventually bleed out no matter what blizzard does - since you can never please everyone.
Because Ion that's why. Pruning is the specialty of this no-talent and brain dead lead
subtlety rogues had a real surprise last part of wod, they were really good in world pvp, pvp in general then legion just fucked over the class balance. been broken ever since. hope that gets fixed because the class does have a really fun play style should be ashamed for breaking the class to market in china..
“Choose a job you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life” “Logic will get you from A to Z; Imagination will get you everywhere.”
I think there should be a simple design goal: follow the "easy to learn, difficult to master" paradigm, tailor that to match content, and don't let the design of the game take away from the fun of playing it. There should never be a spec that is easy and fun to play while leveling, say, but arduous and frustrating in dungeons/raids. I think that has happened to a large extent for a very long time, and it falls on Blizzard to correct the issue.
"Can't you see this is the last act of a desperate man?"
"We don't care if it's the first act of Henry the Fifth, we're leaving!"
How can people complain about prunning and saying vanillas classes were good to play in the same post?
I actually like the prunning. Difficulty shouldn't come from one more button to press, but from dungeon mechanics.
Also were's the fun having to more spells that can proc?
red proc -> i press 4
blue proc -> i press 5
That's as good as having one spell less that procs twice as often.