why shaman dps spell are so terrible mana wise?

[Kralljin]

Downranking means having 2 or 3 versions of the same heal on your bar at a time and choosing which one is relevant to the situation.

So you just explained these two scenarios i described above.

By the time you're 60 if you've been healing dungeons there's no way you have less than 100 +healing, which is plenty to start downranking.

But the incoming tank damage or group damage doesn't necessarily line up with these plans on every pull or boss.

[Gratlim]

Ele/resto is a phenomenal PvP build once you have T2 - a fully viable raid healer who can 100-0 nuke combo people with CDs.

But no, you can't really raid as Ele and be super viable. There's no Warlock curse to reduce Nature Resist on bosses, and your mana costs are crazy high which means you have to downrank even with consumes until your raid can carry you to super fast kill times.

Actually most bosses have lower nature resist (70) than other schools (140 or 145, cant remember) so CoE does not change anything. I play as Oomkin and tried wrath spam Vs starfire spam in 3 reset of MC/Ony and it seems to still be the same in Classic now. You get the same amount of resist more or less (but way more crits from 1,5 / 1s wraths. Mana goes down so fast that you need at least innervate + mana / rune for a boss kill though. Downranking hells as well)

[Yoshimiko]

SS alone stress a lot my mana but anyway, how do you use the nature buff of SS?

Your job in a raid is that of an augmenter. You're an enchanter or a support - whatever you want to call it. Your damage is ALWAYS secondary. If you either don't have the gear or aren't building your set in a way to handle the burden of Stormstrike - you don't use it or you use it sparingly.

Your two jobs are to proc Nightfall or annihalator and to keep a DPS party buffed with Grace of Air & WF totem. This means you need to cast both Grace of air AND WF totem every 10 seconds. After that, your next priority would be to cast rank 1 earthshock on CD to proc clearcasting & elemental devastation. THEN you can start worrying about Stormstriking - when you have clearcasting, nightfall and mana isn't a concern.

In 5-mans and solo feel free to blow through your mana. Just be aware if you're chewing through your mana faster than the healer is - groups tend to have little patience for you. Play smart - reserve when you need to, spend when you're free to.

[barrsftw]

WHAT?! does frostbrand deal the same damage with windfury even with enhance buff totems? I would use that any day then since that would solve the running away mob problem.

All 4 weapon enhancements equate to roughly the same DPS over time regardless of 2h / 1h / weapon speed etc. So yes, if you prefer Frostbrand, use it! Obviously, certain mobs will have some frost resistance in which case it might not be the best idea

[Will]

Did not someome tell you Shamans are useless in Classic? Why play an unviable class when there have been numbers all over the Internet telling how much they suck for over a decade.

Wtf? They're an amazing healer (chain heal is crazy good) and they also have windfury totem, which is the single best buff you can provide to melee players. They have some other nifty totems as well.

[munkeyinorbit]

Because if he learn to play his class he can magically deal more damage?

He's not suppose to deal damage . He's suppose to heal and place totems.

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reread my comment because i was talking about damage or you are saying that an elemental shaman with the perfect "rotation" of consumable and mana managment can deal more than half of the damage of a frost mage with a two button keyboard?

What kind of shitty mage uses two keys in a fight? If they're playing that shit, maybe a perfect shaman will do half. A good mage, using one button, maybe a third?

[Vampiregenesis]

Based on what I see here, I'm dropping the last 10 points in enhancement tree. Shall I get elemental weapons? 15% damage look useless but what about the 40% buff to windfury? how much does this increase the proc rate?

[deniter]

Wait, can shaman really be ele in classic? Is that a thing? I need to go look at their talent points.

Elemental spec kicks in at level 40 when you get access to Elemental Mastery, and is the most effective leveling build by a large margin from that point on. Stack lots of +nature spell damage and intellect and feast with free to cast instant chain lightnings. A shield gives you survivability so you're not as squishy as mages are even tho most of your gear will be cloth and leather. I could easily kill packs of 3 melee mobs by opening with instant auto-crit chain lightning followed by some flame shocks and magma totem.

"If speed is what you care about, the best way to proceed in WoW Classic as a solo Shaman is to use our Enhancement talent build until level 40, at which point you should respec to our Elemental talent build". https://www.icy-veins.com/wow-classi...leveling-guide

I went with elemental all the way to lvl 60 and geared up for both dps and healer role in lvl 60 dungeons. With lots of spell damage in my gear my mana pool was pretty small so i down ranked lightning bolt by one rank to conserve mana (you need them to crit anyway). In UBRS i began to see some problems with mana and went oom in longer boss fights. I farmed major mana potions and demonic runes to fill up mana, but the dragons in BRS are quite resistant to magical damage.

The bottom line is elemental is an awesome spec until you get to the raiding environment, at which point you really want to spec restoration.

[Caperfin]

you don't lul, in raids you're just a totem/nightfall lad

Assuming you're in raid progression or casual guild, yes. Any other time, it's not needed.

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Because if he learn to play his class he can magically deal more damage?

In a roundabout way... yes. Managing mana properly will result in more spells being cast thus more damage.

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This has nothin todo with l2p issue when a mage can spam frostbolts but a shaman goes oom in 2-3 casts. Classic is unbalanced as fuck, easy as that.

Unless its progression there's no reason any class should be going oom.

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I currently tank all pre-raid stuff as a shaman, and I tell you agility is king because it gives you armor/crit/dodge, you crit and shit dies, it also lets you hold crazy aggro, and AOE aggro with tab slapping enemies with rockbiter auto attacks a crit is like instant agro. While tanking with a mongoose potion I have about 25 percent crit currently and it will be a lot more down the road. A lot of my gear does have int on it which is also important to give you a larger mana pool and some spell crit, but it won't be on everything. MP5 stat is amazing if you can get it.

My build allows me to do pretty decent damage when I throw on a 2-hander as well.

wow.. we talking about ele or enh dps and he brings up Shaman Tanking. Shameless :P

[bmjclark]

how am I supposed to play the class if I'm going oom like this?

Step 1) Go to trainer
Step 2) respec resto


Welcome to classic.

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SS alone stress a lot my mana but anyway, how do you use the nature buff of SS?

In a raid, you don't even use SS. It's a waste of a debuff slot.

[curupuru]

Tanking, yes. DPS-wise, no. Strength is your base damage. If Windfury doesn't proc, the more strength you have, the less you'll hit like a wet noodle. If Windfury does proc, you'll absolutely blow up the target. Shamans and Druid (tank mainly) require probably the most hyper balancing between Str/Agl on gear so that you're doing enough base damage for when WF doesn't proc, you won't be left behind in the dust.

You dont get the benefit of WF as a druid in form.

If you need more threat you put on pummeler and some more hit gear. If you are just holding some mob (offtanking or similar situation) you run some mitigation gear since only threat you need to hold is one of healers. There isn't much "hyper balancing" to be done, you have set of threat gear with more hit and set of mitigation gear with more armor and healt, which partly overlap. Personally I usually switch devilsaur on if I need to do more threat, and have other pieces if I just hold the mob.

This in raid situation.

In 5mans its w/e. Most of the time you don't even have shaman in your group and even if you do there is the wlock dotting every mob up before they reach you and other shitfest like the dps warrior charging in to the pack and pulling 3 others at once.

[Caperfin]

It sounds like enhancement is useless if I'm an autoattacker and can't use my last talent, sure when windfury procs my dmg is great but this doesn't happen often so my dmg is a joke even with ravager. I wonder what's the elemental rotation? spam cl?

I play with x2 warriors who do insane dmg with ravager, maybe should I go resto? I see no benefit playing enhance at this point, we are mostly grinding killing dungeon mobs and I offheal them but I don't think I help them much damage wise so going full healer could be better.

The funny part is, if you are properly geared Elemental Fury will be better than SS.

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I'm absolutely by no means a theorycrafter. I'm just going off of my experiences and how strength ups your base damage. Part of the problem of enhance shaman is pulling threat. If you're dealing steady damage over burst damage, you're less likely to pull threat and die. I would imagine in a perfect world where MC mobs weren't immune to fire damage, you'd see a lot more Flametongue usage. It's a lot more manageable threat and it's consistent damage. However, people like big numbers and having WF proc crit 3 hits on a single swing, pulling aggro and dying.

You should never pull aggro as an enh shaman, if it does happen, the tank is not doing something properly.

[Mermeoth]

Because if he learn to play his class he can magically deal more damage?

He has to learn pray for good Windfury procs and stop casting chain lighting

[Flarelaine]

It sounds like enhancement is useless if I'm an autoattacker and can't use my last talent, sure when windfury procs my dmg is great but this doesn't happen often so my dmg is a joke even with ravager. I wonder what's the elemental rotation? spam cl?

I play with x2 warriors who do insane dmg with ravager, maybe should I go resto? I see no benefit playing enhance at this point, we are mostly grinding killing dungeon mobs and I offheal them but I don't think I help them much damage wise so going full healer could be better.

The trick is that much of the DPS you bring to the group shows up on the warriors' meters.

And no, you cannot spam CL, it has an 8-second cooldown.

[Protean]

SS alone stress a lot my mana but anyway, how do you use the nature buff of SS?

You don't. Who told you, you have to use it?

[crakerjack]

Enhance isn't viable until later on when there's more hit gear. Right now, what makes enhance useful, is totem twisting. It involves putting down windfury and then, with the next global, throwing down a grace of air totem for the agi. Melee dps will still get their 9 second windfury buff and the extra agi from grace of air. You rinse and repeat every 8 or so seconds and it significantly boosts melee damage. If you're trying to play enhance by using stormstrike/chain lightning, you're not being useful at all. In a dungeon it doesn't matter, but in raids you won't be able to play the way you are. There's not enough debuff slots for you to waste one of the sixteen slots with your stormstrike.

Outside of totem twisting, there's the elemental focus build where you spam rank 1 earth shock until you get a proc, which you then use your highest rank. Realistically your current role is totem twisting and anything other than that is only bogging down raids. There's 3 options for you as an enhance shaman, totem twist, respec resto or gtfo.

I also play an enhance shaman.

[Flarelaine]

Elemental spec kicks in at level 40 when you get access to Elemental Mastery, and is the most effective leveling build by a large margin from that point on. Stack lots of +nature spell damage and intellect and feast with free to cast instant chain lightnings. A shield gives you survivability so you're not as squishy as mages are even tho most of your gear will be cloth and leather. I could easily kill packs of 3 melee mobs by opening with instant auto-crit chain lightning followed by some flame shocks and magma totem.

"If speed is what you care about, the best way to proceed in WoW Classic as a solo Shaman is to use our Enhancement talent build until level 40, at which point you should respec to our Elemental talent build". https://www.icy-veins.com/wow-classi...leveling-guide

I went with elemental all the way to lvl 60 and geared up for both dps and healer role in lvl 60 dungeons. With lots of spell damage in my gear my mana pool was pretty small so i down ranked lightning bolt by one rank to conserve mana (you need them to crit anyway). In UBRS i began to see some problems with mana and went oom in longer boss fights. I farmed major mana potions and demonic runes to fill up mana, but the dragons in BRS are quite resistant to magical damage.

The bottom line is elemental is an awesome spec until you get to the raiding environment, at which point you really want to spec restoration.

Not as much want to as have to... but a good writeup.

[asamu]

Doesn't matter how many time i read this i don't understand why give dps spec to hybrid if they chose to make them not viable for raid.
Why don't just make single role class and optimize them for different aspect of that role?

It wasn't intentional at first. They gave every class 3 specs, and the DPS/tank specs for Shaman/Paladins weren't competitive in raids, so Shaman and paladins were pushed into healing. Instead of trying to "fix" the problem, Blizzard just embraced it and made the tier set gear healing oriented. Blizzard just took a different approach to things at the time. In TBC, they started to shift focus a bit and made more specs competitive in raids, but it wasn't until WoTLK that they really started trying to make every spec viable for everything.

That said, Enh still has a place in raids as a buff bot for the other melees. Windfury totem is good; ~20% more DPS to 4 of the warriors is a big deal; sure, resto can also drop the totem, but it's not quite as good.

Ele/Enh also help with leveling faster, and are reasonably strong in PvP. The DPS isn't the worst either.

[Caperfin]

Enhance isn't viable until later on when there's more hit gear.

Enh is viable, you mean to say their power scaling really starts in late-game.

[Coldfrostzero]

You should never pull aggro as an enh shaman, if it does happen, the tank is not doing something properly.

You shouldn't, but having a string of 3 or more back to back Windfury procs that crit is a looooooooooooooooot of threat on top of earth shock on CD. It's especially noticeable in 5mans where nobody waits any amount of time to pull. Keep in mind, the majority of wow players play the game like retail and don't understand how their spells work and just spam whatever seems to do the most damage whenever they can.

You dont get the benefit of WF as a druid in form.

If you need more threat you put on pummeler and some more hit gear. If you are just holding some mob (offtanking or similar situation) you run some mitigation gear since only threat you need to hold is one of healers. There isn't much "hyper balancing" to be done, you have set of threat gear with more hit and set of mitigation gear with more armor and healt, which partly overlap. Personally I usually switch devilsaur on if I need to do more threat, and have other pieces if I just hold the mob.

This in raid situation.

In 5mans its w/e. Most of the time you don't even have shaman in your group and even if you do there is the wlock dotting every mob up before they reach you and other shitfest like the dps warrior charging in to the pack and pulling 3 others at once.

I never once said they get Windfury in form. Two completely separate statements about gearing and Windfury threat. You need a healthy balance of both since Strength = Attack Power. Agility is just armor and crit, which druids do need a lot of both, but you have to choose pieces based on the situation...which is what you just told me you did. Warriors are similar in that they make the same trade off between mitigation/stamina and threat. The "hyper balance" comes from how you'll have to make these choices on any given fight or how things are feeling that night. If your DPS is doing their job, you're going to want a lot of threat gear. If your healers are struggling to keep you up, you want a lot of mitigation gear. In general, you want a balance of both when you can.