9.0 General Discussion

[taishar68]

That would be a solution, believe that has been mentioned before. Though specifically with Xal'atath, which makes sense.

The problem is if N'zoth doesnt do that and is just defeated without any backup plans.

Yeah, I can see the frustration if there isn't more "there" there.

I don't have a lot of hype for 9.0 atm, but I'm hoping for a really big "wow!" moment to get the interest moving again. That'll have to be coupled with solid gameplay changes, we'll know more in a week!

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To be fair we thought the same about Palpatine and apparently he is back.

Not who we wanted back though. #teamvader

[Wangming]

Not who we wanted back though. #teamvader

#teamhk-47andorthrawn

[deviantcultist]

I think N'Zoth is physically dead, but his essence/spirit lives on inside Xalatath. At the very least his legacy will live on. Question is, who gets the dagger and what will they do?

Sylvanas knew of that plan and is aware of the variables, except Wrathion. Therefore, either the dagger plays in favor of Sylvanas or an unexpected force (Wrathion) intervenes and turns it to their advantage.

I can't believe Blizz will simply turn the N'Zoth fight into a superhero fight that leads into an expansion full of boring gaudy Dragons. This is too retarded even for cheesy DnD 3.5 standards.

[taishar68]

#teamhk-47andorthrawn

Another Timothy Zahn fan

[Shadochi]

Sure you can count Deathwing as "N'zoth's masterpiece" but that even puts greater shade on how N'zoth is represented in BfA - up until 8.3 as a literal nobody and even during 8.3 as somebody who doesn't have any lasting impact at all by himself alone. That's the sad part about N'zoth throughout BfA.

I'm lost in this discussion.
Nzoth is said to be the smartest but weakest Old God in the lore.

I put forth examples of him being smart, but then people say how he doesn't leave an impact by himself. ITS BECAUSE HE IS THE WEAKEST. He uses others to get to his goals.

Read about the hour of twilight, it was literally the whole plan to release the old gods. And Deathwing was the harbinger of that plan. Saying his impact isn't Nzoths impact is silly since it was to bring forth nzoths plan.

[Sondrelk]

I'm lost in this discussion.
Nzoth is said to be the smartest but weakest Old God in the lore.

I put forth examples of him being smart, but then people say how he doesn't leave an impact by himself. ITS BECAUSE HE IS THE WEAKEST. He uses others to get to his goals.

Read about the hour of twilight, it was literally the whole plan to release the old gods. And Deathwing was the harbinger of that plan. Saying his impact isn't Nzoths impact is silly since it was to bring forth nzoths plan.

The problem is that even with him being the weakest of the Old gods, he is still supposed to be powerful. So far he has not been shown to actually do anything substantial beyond escape and immediately get killed. All his minions are shown ot be more competent than him.

Again though, think back to the idea of having Deathwing show up and be killed at the end of WotLK, by that point we had defeated both his childnre who were quite influental, and several storylines in Northrend revolved around his actions. Most noticeably Malygos being insane.
We were also shown one of his most influental moments in Uløduar when Yogg-Saron showed how he convinced the other dragons to make the Dragon Soul.
Beyond that he was always mentioned as the leader of the Black dragonflight, on the same level as Alexstrasza, Malygos, Nozdormu and Ysera, and if i remember correctly part of his backstory was that all of them were required to defeat him before.

However, all this buildup would not mean anything if he showed up at the end of WotLK, made a big song and dance over how his masterplan was coming to fruition and then died.

Similarly all teh buildup in the world does not matter if N'zoths only direct contribution to the plot is getting other villains to be threatening in his place and then die.
At least give him some time to be built up as a credible threat that we should be scared of, as is we should be less scared of him, since he is clearly shown as an idiot that died the second he stuck his head out.

[Shadochi]

The problem is that even with him being the weakest of the Old gods, he is still supposed to be powerful. So far he has not been shown to actually do anything substantial beyond escape and immediately get killed. All his minions are shown ot be more competent than him.

Again though, think back to the idea of having Deathwing show up and be killed at the end of WotLK, by that point we had defeated both his childnre who were quite influental, and several storylines in Northrend revolved around his actions. Most noticeably Malygos being insane.
We were also shown one of his most influental moments in Uløduar when Yogg-Saron showed how he convinced the other dragons to make the Dragon Soul.
Beyond that he was always mentioned as the leader of the Black dragonflight, on the same level as Alexstrasza, Malygos, Nozdormu and Ysera, and if i remember correctly part of his backstory was that all of them were required to defeat him before.

However, all this buildup would not mean anything if he showed up at the end of WotLK, made a big song and dance over how his masterplan was coming to fruition and then died.

Similarly all teh buildup in the world does not matter if N'zoths only direct contribution to the plot is getting other villains to be threatening in his place and then die.
At least give him some time to be built up as a credible threat that we should be scared of, as is we should be less scared of him, since he is clearly shown as an idiot that died the second he stuck his head out.

So it's pretty much your headcanon that he is still powerful enough to on his own leave an impact... which no old god has done. It was always through corrupting others.

What direct impact did we get from previous 2 old gods that wasn't just their minions?

[Kagdar]

I think N'Zoth is physically dead, but his essence/spirit lives on inside Xalatath. At the very least his legacy will live on. Question is, who gets the dagger and what will they do? .

If we really are going for Dragon Isles after, one way they could link the 2 together is with the dagger with the soul of N'Zoth in it. We may need to go to a titan facility on the Isles that is specially made to contain an old god's soul.

We know there is at least 1 other titan facility that we shouldn't go in. It's probably a vault for old god artifacts or something like that.

[Shadochi]

If we really are going for Dragon Isles after, one way they could link the 2 together is with the dagger with the soul of N'Zoth in it. We may need to go to a titan facility on the Isles that is specially made to contain an old god's soul.

We know there is at least 1 other titan facility that we shouldn't go in. It's probably a vault for old god artifacts or something like that.

Would be interesting, we know that Uldir is where they experimented with old gods and created one, but maybe they also had a test facility experimenting with dealing with the OG essence.

Worse case scenario if he does escape is that he gets a humanoid model like Xal, which I would assume would be less powerful but allow him to move around more.

[Sondrelk]

So it's pretty much your headcanon that he is still powerful enough to on his own leave an impact... which no old god has done. It was always through corrupting others.

It isnt really headcanon, it is common sense when it comes to writing.

If Blizzard made an expansion about a resurgence of Gnolls you can bet your ass that Hogger, Reborn would be the most daunting challenge Azeroth has ever faced, logic be damned. And that is okay, because this is a mixed fantasy game about ridiculous set pieces and melodramatic acting.

In stories like these you press on heroically against the great enemy that threatens all life and wade through thousands upon thousands of enemies who may as well be mushy porridge by teh time you leave them behind before finally defeating the great evil at the end.

What you don't do is think about it logically and ask yourself whether this is what should logically happen, or the nitty gritties of whether N'zoth is weak enough compared to the other old gods that defeating him in the same small segment of teh story he was released was sense.
In a story like this N'zoth is the greatest most ultimate evil we have ever faced, and if he is simply defeated before he even gets to show off what makes him so formidable then that is a writing fail.

[Wangming]

It's probably a vault for old god artifacts or something like that.

Xalatath would probably be interested in a place like that.

[huth]

If we really are going for Dragon Isles after, one way they could link the 2 together is with the dagger with the soul of N'Zoth in it. We may need to go to a titan facility on the Isles that is specially made to contain an old god's soul.

We know there is at least 1 other titan facility that we shouldn't go in. It's probably a vault for old god artifacts or something like that.

I'm not sure. I think we already went to that one, and it happens to be on the sea-floor.

[Shadochi]

It isnt really headcanon, it is common sense when it comes to writing.

If Blizzard made an expansion about a resurgence of Gnolls you can bet your ass that Hogger, Reborn would be the most daunting challenge Azeroth has ever faced, logic be damned. And that is okay, because this is a mixed fantasy game about ridiculous set pieces and melodramatic acting.

In stories like these you press on heroically against the great enemy that threatens all life and wade through thousands upon thousands of enemies who may as well be mushy porridge by teh time you leave them behind before finally defeating the great evil at the end.

What you don't do is think about it logically and ask yourself whether this is what should logically happen, or the nitty gritties of whether N'zoth is weak enough compared to the other old gods that defeating him in the same small segment of teh story he was released was sense.
In a story like this N'zoth is the greatest most ultimate evil we have ever faced, and if he is simply defeated before he even gets to show off what makes him so formidable then that is a writing fail.

Again, you completely don't understand how Old Gods function, they are stationary and can't get shit done directly.

And it isn't common sense when it comes to writing, especially a smart character. He sits in the back while letting others do his work, that is how the Void functions. We were just smarter and took the fight to him.
If there was such thing as "common sense to writing a villain" then all books would just be the same shit.

Don't try to project your wishes into something that does or doesn't make sense. Old gods have always been just patch content, Nzoth got special treatment by being in the last patch, but that doesn't make him more powerful, formidable,... than the rest.

There is obviously no point in further discussing since you are just to stubborn and stick to your wishes.

[Foolicious]

If we really are going for Dragon Isles after, one way they could link the 2 together is with the dagger with the soul of N'Zoth in it. We may need to go to a titan facility on the Isles that is specially made to contain an old god's soul.

We know there is at least 1 other titan facility that we shouldn't go in. It's probably a vault for old god artifacts or something like that.

I don't know if this is still a thing. In the 8.3 questline Mother checks all titan facilities and then tells us that mogushan vaults and the forge of origination are under attack/deactivated. She doesn't mention a new one anymore.
Interestingly enough she also tells us uldir is still corrupted, but within acceptable parameters, after we blasted G'huun with a reorigination device(foreshadowing?)

[Sondrelk]

Again, you completely don't understand how Old Gods function, they are stationary and can't get shit done directly.

And it isn't common sense when it comes to writing, especially a smart character. He sits in the back while letting others do his work, that is how the Void functions. We were just smarter and took the fight to him.
If there was such thing as "common sense to writing a villain" then all books would just be the same shit.

Here is the thing. Yes, logically the smart thing to do is fight him as soon as possible, put on anti-whisper headgear and remove his influence before he gets to take root.
The smart thing to do in BfA was for the Alliance to use the Vindicaar to bomb Horde encampments, get Jaina to flood Durotar and have Malfurion on standby to purify Sylvanas of her Death powers so she cannot run away or whatever.
The smart thing to do with pretty much every conflict is for teh Alliance and Horde to lob a mana-bomb in their general direction and watch as the fight ends instantly.
Having trouble breaking down the gates of Icecrown Citadel, have Jaina teleport a mana bomb around the foundations and watch as the citadel crumbles.

Logically, yes. Defeating N'zoth here makes sense. But this is a narrative, and a grand fantasy at that. The story here doesnt run on Logic, it runs on tropes.

We don't mana-bomb Arthas because it is far more exciting to slowly experience the full extent of his powers and then pick it apart piece by piece as we draw ever closer to a climactic fight against him atop his citadel.

Defeating N'zoth in 8.3 and having him be fully defeated means that the story with him was pretty much pointless. His credibility is ruined as there are a multitude of different approaches he could have taken to not die and still have his plans come to fruition, and it is terrible for the narrative as all future old god related plots lose credibility by N'zoths defeat.
Xal'atath is supposedly even weaker than N'zoth, so what threat could she possible be in the future when she returns? She would be unable to fall back on neither brains nor brawns for credibility, both of those have been ground into dust.

[Shadochi]

I don't know if this is still a thing. In the 8.3 questline Mother checks all titan facilities and then tells us that mogushan vaults and the forge of origination are under attack/deactivated. She doesn't mention a new one anymore.
Interestingly enough she also tells us uldir is still corrupted, but within acceptable parameters, after we blasted G'huun with a reorigination device(foreshadowing?)

Might be that "Within acceptable parameters" means that cleansing of the corruption is going to plan, or that we haven't touched it since uldir since we've been busy but corruption isn't growing.

As for the other Uld facilities, might be on a need to know basis and MOTHER doesn't have the needed info to know about them so she just checked the ones she know.

While Maiden of Vitality probably knew more

Chamber of Heart
Subject: Azeroth. Major arrhythmia detected.
Vitals exceeding acceptable parameters.
Attempting to update incident reports...
ERROR. ERROR. ERROR. ERROR.
Subject: Azeroth.
WARNING: Catastrophic system failure in progress
Planetary integrity at--
calculating... calculating... calculating...
WARNING: Multiple containment breaches registered.
Recommended expurgation of following facilities:
Uldaman. Uldum. Uldorus. Ulduar. Uldir. Uldaz. Uld... Uld... Uld... Uld...

[huth]

I don't know if this is still a thing. In the 8.3 questline Mother checks all titan facilities and then tells us that mogushan vaults and the forge of origination are under attack/deactivated. She doesn't mention a new one anymore.
Interestingly enough she also tells us uldir is still corrupted, but within acceptable parameters, after we blasted G'huun with a reorigination device(foreshadowing?)

I don't think Uldir is foreshadowing. It's just not done with cleanup yet, which probably isn't a high-priority task anyway.

As for the "missing" Titan facility, some people seem to have forgotten the one at the end of Eternal Palace, that we probably should have stayed away from.

[Sondrelk]

I don't think Uldir is foreshadowing. It's just not done with cleanup yet, which probably isn't a high-priority task anyway.

As for the "missing" Titan facility, some people seem to have forgotten the one at the end of Eternal Palace, that we probably should have stayed away from.

I believe this was something that was mentioned at the very beginning of the expansion when the Heart chamber still had giant azerite spikes in it.

Beyond that though, one of the Uld facilities is probably N'zoths prison, and i will stick by my theory that Uldorus is teh Heart chamber, to fit with how Antorus was the location of Argus' world soul.

[Renley]

Good morning my lovelies.

Anything happen since the level squish mention by Patty?

[FlubberPuddy]

Good morning my lovelies.

Anything happen since the level squish mention by Patty?

Nope, just a lot of the usual shitposters shitposting and a few getting into lore arguments