[Spoilers] He's Home

[Dagoth Ur]

yep, just how they said this would be the great war", and it could look like the second war, and it was totally bananas, it was shit and not even resemble to the second war.

Funniest thing is how BfA's opening cinematic is in completely different reality compared to what actually happened in the game.

[Traveler Voltin]

Reading sound so much worse.

i think the writers barely read their shit, LUL,in fact i think they barely know warcraft lore, is so painful.

their writers are banned from reading criticism because it might hurt their feelings. so i doubt they read anything

[Weatherwax]

i really wish wow would have had a third evil faction from its beginning. so that the horde could have kept its identity and not forced into being the villain every other expansion due to *wonderful people that i don't want to hit very hard in the face* that couldn't understand the fact that thrall made the horde into something different from what it was in wc1 and wc2.

there any dialogue for what he's doing there? i've only seen what we've all already seen.

I myself think the players should've never been part of the factions, period. Let independent murderhobos be independent murderhobos, especially if they're not part of the story itself, as happens in WoW.
It doesn't make any sense to imbue the player with some stupid-ass title and crap if the players literally do not exist in the lore and the game is just a glorified visual novel (which is what WoW is. A true RPG will make the player part of the story and thus whatever the player does has actual consequences to said story).

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their writers are banned from reading criticism because it might hurt their feelings. so i doubt they read anything

This. Afrasiabi actually said that in an interview, the writers are completely isolated from the players so that they have "complete freedom".

[Feanoro]

Maybe they indeed have and are doing on purpose?

i always said that they are trying to destroy old team lore, the old legacy, and create their own, their own story, their own "world"

and they are doing a pretty good job on it.

Trying to tear down the old game began in Wrath. It's "succeeded" in that the modern game and story are damn near unrecognizable as the same thing.

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Afrasiabi actually said that in an interview, the writers are completely isolated from the players so that they have "complete freedom".

Little snowflakes can't write if they're busy sobbing in their safe space.

[Syegfryed]

Trying to tear down the old game began in Wrath. It's "succeeded" in that the modern game and story are damn near unrecognizable as the same thing.

nah, there it still had the warcraft feeling, things start to go a downhill in wod, with the new team.

its where the retcon/inconsistencies start to appear so hard.

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their writers are banned from reading criticism because it might hurt their feelings. so i doubt they read anything

this is way is rly easy to think the shit they are throwing is masterpiece, there is no one to complaint, only to praise

[Reinhart11]

Funniest thing is how BfA's opening cinematic is in completely different reality compared to what actually happened in the game.

Because the cinematic was still Metzen's work and not the work of the current writers. There is a statement of him, where he himself was very surprised in what direction the story went afterward.

[Rhlor]

It just keeps getting worse and worse. I can't even understand what the fuck they were thinking or why Blizzard hate night elves and Forsaken with such passion. Like, think about the in-story mechanics of this for a bit:

Delaryn: "Sisters, Sylvanas is gone and Tyrande went for Stormwind. We may have overreacted a little. There's only one thing we can do."
Undead Night Elf 1: "Pray to Elune for forgiveness?"
Undead Night Elf 2: "Kill ourselves?"
Undead Night Elf 3: "Go to Shandris and ask for the chance to make amends? Maiev was really keen on giving us a chance in the warfront."
Undead Night Elf 4: "Stick with Sylvanas, she opened our eyes. Life really is pain."
Delaryn: "No. There's an undead human princess you've never heard of, preaching a religion we've never practiced on the other end of the world. I learned about her from my telepathy. We must teleport from here to the ruins of a city you've never even seen, so we can grovel at her feet and hope she makes us feel better!"
Undead Night Elves: "Brilliant!"

typical human potential

[Vodenbog]

After nearly ten years and five expansions, at least one person ends BFA where he's wanted to be. In a place he can call home and among like minded friends.



He even counsels his king when he meets his other subjects.

Only Magatha Grimtotem can save us from this abomination.

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It just keeps getting worse and worse. I can't even understand what the fuck they were thinking or why Blizzard hate night elves and Forsaken with such passion. Like, think about the in-story mechanics of this for a bit:

Delaryn: "Sisters, Sylvanas is gone and Tyrande went for Stormwind. We may have overreacted a little. There's only one thing we can do."
Undead Night Elf 1: "Pray to Elune for forgiveness?"
Undead Night Elf 2: "Kill ourselves?"
Undead Night Elf 3: "Go to Shandris and ask for the chance to make amends? Maiev was really keen on giving us a chance in the warfront."
Undead Night Elf 4: "Stick with Sylvanas, she opened our eyes. Life really is pain."
Delaryn: "No. There's an undead human princess you've never heard of, preaching a religion we've never practiced on the other end of the world. I learned about her from my telepathy. We must teleport from here to the ruins of a city you've never even seen, so we can grovel at her feet and hope she makes us feel better!"
Undead Night Elves: "Brilliant!"

Night Elves and Forsaken are both races with a quite a strong cultural-social state of the being, therefore they needed to be hollowed internally to make way for the Unification.

[Moonrage]

A leader of the Horde in Stormwind Keep. His father and grandfather are rolling in their graves.

[Powerogue]

A leader of the Horde in Stormwind Keep. His father and grandfather are rolling in their graves.

Actually we confirmed in the heritage armor questline that Cairne is absolutely cool with his son. Even making a point with requirements of doing most of the war campaign that it's taking place after that.

Almost like Blizz are kind of sick of people crapping on Baine for things that happened years ago despite his approach working overwhelmingly well this expansion.

A leader of the Horde in Stormwind Keep.

Most of the complaints about Baine's prior actions is that they've been at the expense of the Horde in favor of maintaining diplomatic relations with the Alliance, and that in the long run they haven't actually stuck.

This may be the greatest success Baine has ever had, and it's not despite of his ties to the Alliance, but because of them.

[Smauldy]

Sylvanas loyalists should go to a place with mindless ghouls and undead, turn walk on, and just stumble around with them forever, because that's apparently what they want to be.

[Powerogue]

Its just so despicable, cruel and nerve-wrecking that i am honestly have not a slightest clue what they want. You said it so right - go ask Shandris for forgivness, pray to Elune, die in the bushes, stick with Sylvanas, go join Death Knights, just make an undead night elf neutral faction... BUT WHY WOULD THEY PRETEND TO BE 100% “legit forsaken” and JOIN CALIA? They are opposite of Forsaken and opposite of Calia! They keep raking a knife over night elven bones despite that there is no meat left to butcher anymore but they just grind it and grind it...

People heckled Derek as not being a "real forsaken" despite being a human raised by Sylvanas because he never agreed to it, yet he's there. These night elves, for better or worse, absolutely agreed to be part of the Forsaken, so they're Forsaken.

Other forsaken are like "greetings, fellow zombies! We too have been abandoned by Sylvanas, but this Calia chick promises a hopeful future, want to talk with her?"

What do you think, they can go ask Tyrande to be let back in? She'd decapitate them on the spot. Shandris maybe, but she's not the nelf leader.

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Considering malfurions biology, he might just rip out a bear spine and replace his, I mean he is already a walking abomination, what do a few more animal parts matter?

Giraffe spine. Malfurion will tower over his enemies!

(Alas not likely, we see Malfurion doing just fine in bear form in the Darkshore cutscene.)

[VladlTutushkin]

People heckled Derek as not being a "real forsaken" despite being a human raised by Sylvanas because he never agreed to it, yet he's there. These night elves, for better or worse, absolutely agreed to be part of the Forsaken, so they're Forsaken.

Other forsaken are like "greetings, fellow zombies! We too have been abandoned by Sylvanas, but this Calia chick promises a hopeful future, want to talk with her?"

What do you think, they can go ask Tyrande to be let back in? She'd decapitate them on the spot. Shandris maybe, but she's not the nelf leader.

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Giraffe spine. Malfurion will tower over his enemies!

Just leave the Horde alltogether? And as i discussed (in length) before they generally lack any motivation now. Even in hidsight. Its like they dont even know why they decided to “willingly” become undead.

[Super Dickmann]

People heckled Derek as not being a "real forsaken" despite being a human raised by Sylvanas because he never agreed to it, yet he's there. These night elves, for better or worse, absolutely agreed to be part of the Forsaken, so they're Forsaken.

Other forsaken are like "greetings, fellow zombies! We too have been abandoned by Sylvanas, but this Calia chick promises a hopeful future, want to talk with her?"

What do you think, they can go ask Tyrande to be let back in? She'd decapitate them on the spot. Shandris maybe, but she's not the nelf leader.

Their association with the Forsaken and the Horde is solely through Sylvanas and even then solely a negative one. They joined her purely out of spite. Every argument for why the Forsaken should tell Calia to go fuck herself is amplified many times fold for the undead night elves who not only should have no idea who Calia is, but to whom her main points of appeal to the Lordaeronian undead - that being the possibility to reconnect with their lives as humans, the religion of the Light and being their princess has no sway. An equivalent development for them would be to return to the night elves and reaccept Elune, not to become the groupies for someone they don't know, in a land they never even saw, in a faction that has been nothing but a pox on their race since well before Sylvanas took over.

[Powerogue]

Just leave the Horde alltogether? And as i discussed (in length) before they generally lack any motivation now. Even in hidsight. Its like they dont even know why they decided to “willingly” become undead.

Feelings of abandonment by Tyrande and Elune, not countered by being double-abandoned by Sylvanas.

I'm not saying it's the best logic but it's what Blizzard says is their reason and it's consistent with how most other forsaken join. Zelling is an outlier.

Their association with the Forsaken and the Horde is solely through Sylvanas and even then solely a negative one. They joined her purely out of spite. Every argument for why the Forsaken should tell Calia to go fuck herself is amplified many times fold for the undead night elves who not only should have no idea who Calia is, but to whom her main points of appeal to the Lordaeronian undead - that being the possibility to reconnect with their lives as humans, the religion of the Light and being their princess has no sway. An equivalent development for them would be to return to the night elves and reaccept Elune, not to become the groupies for someone they don't know, in a land they never even saw, in a faction that has been nothing but a pox on their race since well before Sylvanas took over.

She hasn't even called out any "right to a throne" yet. The throne is literally melted into a puddle of radioactive goo. She's just been encouraged to share hope in the way she did with Derek with other forsaken that come to her. That's not Lordaeron-zombie exclusive.

[Arrashi]

Their association with the Forsaken and the Horde is solely through Sylvanas and even then solely a negative one. They joined her purely out of spite. Every argument for why the Forsaken should tell Calia to go fuck herself is amplified many times fold for the undead night elves who not only should have no idea who Calia is, but to whom her main points of appeal to the Lordaeronian undead - that being the possibility to reconnect with their lives as humans, the religion of the Light and being their princess has no sway. An equivalent development for them would be to return to the night elves and reaccept Elune, not to become the groupies for someone they don't know, in a land they never even saw, in a faction that has been nothing but a pox on their race since well before Sylvanas took over.

I dunno, we saw living elves crave for living human potential so it makes sense that undead elves crave for undead human potential.

[Super Dickmann]

I dunno, we saw living elves crave for living human potential so it makes sense that undead elves crave for undead human potential.

Truly Delaryn is the apex of both Forsaken and Night Elf identity in BFA.

@Powerogue

She literally yells "I am Calia Menethil" while urging people to defect, it doesn't get more transparent than that. But that's really beside the point for a change:

Calia's appeal to the undead in the post-BTS canon is because of what cultural links she represents - she wants them to reunite with their Lordaeronian identity, live in Lordaeron keep, reach out to Lordaeronian living humans, and through her, reaccept the Light that was previously denied to them. Virtually every pro-Calia argument leans on these points to explain why she should be their leader. She has none of these points in common with the undead night elves. They aren't from Lordaeron, they aren't human, they don't follow the Light, she isn't their leader. From what shared cultural viewpoint does she give them 'hope' whatever that empty buzzword even means?

[Oneirophobia]

To be completely fair to the Tauren, had they met the Alliance first instead of the Horde, they wouldn't have anything to do with the Horde. The entire reason the Tauren even put up with the Orcs et al to begin with is because the Orcs happened to genocide a bunch of Centaurs who had been hunting the Tauren for years. The Tauren felt indebted to the Orcs and joined up.

The Tauren otherwise have a lot more in common with the Night Elves and the general "peaceful" ambiance of the Alliance. I was surprised the High Mountaineers didn't take a "thanks but no thanks, we've met your allies and you're delusional" stance towards the Bloodhoof tribe at the end of Legion.

[Powerogue]

@Powerogue

She literally yells "I am Calia Menethil" while urging people to defect, it doesn't get more transparent than that. But that's really beside the point for a change:

Calia's appeal to the undead in the post-BTS canon is because of what cultural links she represents - she wants them to reunite with their Lordaeronian identity, live in Lordaeron keep, reach out to Lordaeronian living humans, and through her, reaccept the Light that was previously denied to them. Virtually every pro-Calia argument leans on these points to explain why she should be their leader. She has none of these points in common with the undead night elves. They aren't from Lordaeron, they aren't human, they don't follow the Light, she isn't their leader. From what shared cultural viewpoint does she give them 'hope' whatever that empty buzzword even means?

She hasn't said or implied a syllable of this in-game. Derek isn't Lordaeronian either, he's Kul'tiran.

So when she last made that call of trying to rally for power of that throne:
-the kingdom still existed, even in ruined form.
-she got shot through the heart for it.
-she was calling out to a group of only Lordaeron citizens

"Hope" isn't an empty buzzword. It's what Sylvanas was trying to exterminate, the core motif of the entire expansion, and the one thing everyone, especially every form of zombie right now left behind by Sylvanas, could use some of.

If she plays her cards right, which seems to be the current plan, she'll rally the Forsaken under something that isn't her Lordaeron monarchy, which is dead and worthless in every conceivable sense now, but something they ALL have in common.

[VladlTutushkin]

Truly Delaryn is the apex of both Forsaken and Night Elf identity in BFA.

@Powerogue

She literally yells "I am Calia Menethil" while urging people to defect, it doesn't get more transparent than that. But that's really beside the point for a change:

Calia's appeal to the undead in the post-BTS canon is because of what cultural links she represents - she wants them to reunite with their Lordaeronian identity, live in Lordaeron keep, reach out to Lordaeronian living humans, and through her, reaccept the Light that was previously denied to them. Virtually every pro-Calia argument leans on these points to explain why she should be their leader. She has none of these points in common with the undead night elves. They aren't from Lordaeron, they aren't human, they don't follow the Light, she isn't their leader. From what shared cultural viewpoint does she give them 'hope' whatever that empty buzzword even means?

Also i was checking Reddit and Forums and apparently people DO support Anduin over “crazy Tyrande”. So... i mean... i guess thats official Alliance position now? Anduinism?

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Feelings of abandonment by Tyrande and Elune, not countered by being double-abandoned by Sylvanas.

I'm not saying it's the best logic but it's what Blizzard says is their reason and it's consistent with how most other forsaken join. Zelling is an outlier.



She hasn't even called out any "right to a throne" yet. The throne is literally melted into a puddle of radioactive goo. She's just been encouraged to share hope in the way she did with Derek with other forsaken that come to her. That's not Lordaeron-zombie exclusive.

Uhm... not really. As i said - 1) If they are all dark and angry and want to kill the living night elfs because they feel abandoned they should have stayed and fought at Darkshore or left with Sylvanas. 2) If they were somehow “corrupted” or “tempered” by Sylvanas and now fog is lifted they should leave the Horde and join Alliance OR join some neutral organization which are aplenty. 3) In both cases it makes no sense that they join Calia and stay in Zugistan aka Horde after Sylvanas is out because they have zero connection with the Horde aside from MAYBE “we also evil now and hate life” which obviously no longer a trend in the Horde after Sylvanas bailed. This is nonsensical.