[Spoilers] A plothole

[Stardrift]

We did hurt Azeroth by killing Yogg and C'Thun, though, just not as badly as Aman'thul did when he killed Y'Shaarj. We both have that Q&A section where they said two Old Gods' deaths caused the Cataclysm, and Chronicle 3 also stated that N'Zoth decided to put his plan with Deathwing into motion because the world was wounded / weakened over the course of the events in WoTLK (and the Dragon Aspects were consumed by their own struggles). It's entirely possible that with Azeroth being so heavily damaged after Y'Shaarj's death, the Titans and their Titanforged army just didn't want to risk hurting it any further.

Moreover, imprisoning the 3 Old Gods was a pretty good plan. It didn't work well because of circumstances, but it would have worked perfectly well if the Titans weren't killed by Sargeras in the same battle. There wasn't any need to find a way to remove the Old Gods right there and then.

Cataclysm was caused by Deathwing, who was commanded by N'zoth. Not the "death" of Yogg and C'thun.

If Yogg is dead, then explain his recent activity within Ulduar.

[Mehrunes]

I mean yeah one way to see it is that Nzoth got scared after seeing Cthun and yog saron die and so decided to put his plan in motion but the people here are arguing something different, they are saying that yogg and cthun death somehow "weakened the foundations of the world and caused the cataclysm" which is hillarious because we know what caused the cataclysm, the game makes it very explicit through several npcs, quests and zones that the reason that caused the cataclysm was deathwing powers and the breaking of the world pillar, shamans and elementals alike are capable of not only seeing this but feeling it as well and no where do they mention that the old gods deaths were involved.

If you are trying to throw shade on what a user has said in reply to an unrelated poster like @Odinfrost to pat yourself on the back about how correct you are, at least try to not blatantly straw-man the post you're throwing shade on as that causes the whole ordeal to have the opposite effect. Because what I said wasn't that Yogg-Saron's and C'Thun's deaths caused the Cataclysm but that they may have contributed to it. Additional emphasis on "may", because it was a hypothetical explanation to begin with, not a certainty.

And since (the hypothetical scenario of) Old Gods' deaths weakening the foundations of the world isn't mutually exclusive with Deathwing shattering the world through his actions in Deepholme but instead could have been (vide it being a hypothetical answer) what made it possible or just easier for him to achieve, the "hilarity" you found in what has been said magically evaporates.

[Piamonte]

There's nothing to miss here. Metzen forgetting things on occasion doesn't mean nothing he said is ever canon. He's the developer of this game, at the time of that comment probably as high as it went in the storytelling department. His word is canon by default because, again, that's how Word of God means. You harping on a mistake of his doesn't negate that. You trying to equate any particular comment of his with that mistake is outright bogus.




Which part of the word "contributing" eludes your understanding, exactly? Humor me. Here's a hint: Old Gods' deaths contributing to the Cataclysm not only doesn't negate Deathwing's actions and their relevance to the Cataclysm, but isn't even mutually exclusive with that. So there is no dismissing of established lore required for what I said to stand. Whereas your "counterargument" requires the very concept of language to be thrown out to the garbage to "work". Having said that, I am pretty aware you're unlikely to get it even now. @huth tried for quite a few posts and it was all in vain after all.

Is it ever stated ingame that the deaths of the old gods contributed to the breaking of the world pillar?? Because thats basically what you are saying here. If it is not, then is just your headcanon.

[Mehrunes]

Cataclysm was caused by Deathwing, who was commanded by N'zoth. Not the "death" of Yogg and C'thun.

If Yogg is dead, then explain his recent activity within Ulduar.

Dear god, @Qualia outright quoted Blizzard's commentary on the matter from last year's Blizzcon where Blizzard flat out confirmed they are dead. And there's no Yogg-Saron activity in Ulduar. There are a handful of Faceless. More specifically, Faceless Echoes. And as shown later on in that same scenario by an Echo of Algalon, they are merely shades of the past.

[Stardrift]

Is it ever stated ingame that the deaths of the old gods contributed to the breaking of the world pillar?? Because thats basically what you are saying here. If it is not, then is just your headcanon.

It's just his head canon. A horrendously stupid one at that. Yogg and C'thun are still alive. I'm just waiting for someone at Blizz to clear the stupidity surrounding this topic and say their bossfights are half-canon.

[rhorle]

If Yogg is dead, then explain his recent activity within Ulduar.

Blizzard has stated that the other old gods are dead. But old gods don't fully die (at least when killed on Azeroth). Likely in some way much like the burning legion didn't really die (because of the titan Argus mostly). So some part of them can remain and it likely helps when they have an "anchor". As we haven't had a hint of the one that was ripped out of Azeroth returning to power at all despite the sha lingering around for a long time.

Saronite is still all over the place in Northrend. So that stuff could act as an anchor that allows yogg to return in some fashion even though he is dead. And if the next expansion is Shadowlands it could cover some of this "dead but not dead" stuff much like is the case with Vol'jin. Where something returned him as a dead but not dead enough for other things in charge of death.

[Stardrift]

Dear god, @Qualia outright quoted Blizzard's commentary on the matter from last year's Blizzcon where Blizzard flat out confirmed they are dead. And there's no Yogg-Saron activity in Ulduar. There are a handful of Faceless. More specifically, Faceless Echoes. And as shown later on in that same scenario by an Echo of Algalon, they are merely shades of the past.

Why do you cite Blizzcon as proof of anything? It's common knowledge anything the devs say during Blizzcon Q&A about old lore is noncanon as they often backpedal on statements they've made or things appear the exact opposite in-game.

Blizz still hasn't specified anything on the "death" of an old god other than Ysharaaj and that when an old god dies, it hurts the world pretty damn badly. Something that has only happened once, and never before with the supposed "deaths" of Yogg and C'thun. And don't you dare say the Cataclysm was done by the "deaths" of Yogg and C'thun lmao. Your memory must be shit poor if you think that's what it is.

[Mehrunes]

Is it ever stated ingame that the deaths of the old gods contributed to the breaking of the world pillar?? Because thats basically what you are saying here. If it is not, then is just your headcanon.

Something doesn't have to be in-game to be lore. Things like Word of God are also lore. So are novels, comics and the like. So you apparently don't know what headcanon means. Tip: don't use terms you don't understand. And last time I checked I was only giving a hypothetical example of how C'Thun's and Yogg-Saron's death may have contributed to the Cataclysm. So no, that's not basically what I'm saying here. So how about you *gasp* actually read what you're replying to instead of meandering and constantly moving the goalposts in a futile attempt to save face? Because it's really not working all that great for you.

It's just his head canon. A horrendously stupid one at that. Yogg and C'thun are still alive. I'm just waiting for someone at Blizz to clear the stupidity surrounding this topic and say their bossfights are half-canon.

Never mind that there are also in-game and comic sources that confirm their death.

Why do you cite Blizzcon as proof of anything? It's common knowledge anything the devs say during Blizzcon Q&A about old lore is noncanon as they often backpedal on statements they've made or things appear the exact opposite in-game.

Because devs' word is canon as that's the very point of lore-related interviews and how Word of God works. And because you pulled that "common knowledge" out of thin air as you don't know how canon even works. Them back-pedaling on things or later contradicting it in-game is *gasp* a retcon.

Blizz still hasn't specified anything on the "death" of an old god other than Ysharaaj and that when an old god dies, it hurts the world pretty damn badly. Something that has only happened once, and never before with the supposed "deaths" of Yogg and C'thun. And don't you dare say the Cataclysm was done by the "deaths" of Yogg and C'thun lmao. Your memory must be shit poor if you think that's what it is.

Riiiight. Except C'Thun is explicitly dead in the WoW comic and a game quest confirmed his death all the way back in Vanilla. Yogg-Saron's dying quote is him threatening the people that killed him how his death is going to be a negative influence upon the world. And given how that's now what I said about the Cataclysm because words mean things (complicated concept to be sure), my memory is fine.

[Stardrift]

Something doesn't have to be in-game to be lore. Things like Word of God are also lore. So are novels, comics and the like. So you apparently don't know what headcanon means. Tip: don't use terms you don't understand. And last time I checked I was only giving a hypothetical example of how C'Thun's and Yogg-Saron's death may have contributed to the Cataclysm. So no, that's not basically what I'm saying here. So how about you *gasp* actually read what you're replying to instead of meandering and constantly moving the goalposts in a futile attempt to save face? Because it's really not working all that great for you.




Never mind that there are also in-game and comic sources that confirm their death.




Because devs' word is canon as that's the very point of lore-related interviews and how Word of God works. And because you pulled that "common knowledge" out of thin air as you don't know how canon even works. Them back-pedaling on things or later contradicting it in-game is *gasp* a retcon.




Riiiight. Except C'Thun is explicitly dead in the WoW comic and a game quest confirmed his death all the way back in Vanilla. Yogg-Saron's dying quote is him threatening the people that killed him how his death is going to be a negative influence upon the world. And given how that's now what I said about the Cataclysm because words mean things (complicated concept to be sure), my memory is fine.

Lmao get a load of yourself. Don't lie to yourself now.

[Piamonte]

Something doesn't have to be in-game to be lore. Things like Word of God are also lore. So are novels, comics and the like. So you apparently don't know what headcanon means. Tip: don't use terms you don't understand. And last time I checked I was only giving a hypothetical example of how C'Thun's and Yogg-Saron's death may have contributed to the Cataclysm. So no, that's not basically what I'm saying here. So how about you *gasp* actually read what you're replying to instead of meandering and constantly moving the goalposts in a futile attempt to save face? Because it's really not working all that great for you.



Never mind that there are also in-game and comic sources that confirm their death.




Because devs' word is canon as that's the very point of lore-related interviews and how Word of God works. And because you pulled that "common knowledge" out of thin air as you don't know how canon even works. Them back-pedaling on things or later contradicting it in-game is *gasp* a retcon.




Riiiight. Except C'Thun is explicitly dead in the WoW comic and a game quest confirmed his death all the way back in Vanilla. Yogg-Saron's dying quote is him threatening the people that killed him how his death is going to be a negative influence upon the world. And given how that's now what I said about the Cataclysm because words mean things (complicated concept to be sure), my memory is fine.

I repeat do you have anything other than metzen talking out of his ass? , if not, pls dont answer this. Bye.

[Qualia]

Cataclysm was caused by Deathwing, who was commanded by N'zoth. Not the "death" of Yogg and C'thun.

If Yogg is dead, then explain his recent activity within Ulduar.

To save both of our time, I wouldn't argue with you about the Cataclysm, since I see that you just refused to trust Word of God - that's not how it works. Word of God is canonical by default, unless declared otherwise by the authors (in this case, Blizzard or their developers). Even if it's wrong (before the author said it), it will become canon afterwards. Heck, other than Word of God, Blizzard have stated multiple times, over many platforms (in-game quest texts, the comic, Twitter post, Yogg's own death scream, etc.) - if you don't want to trust any of those, then it's clear that you've made up your mind to ignore canon and nothing could convince you.

What about recent activities in Ulduar? Faceless Echoes were spawning from Saronite Cloud. What about it that indicated that Yogg was alive? Nothing. Y'Shaarj was dead and the remains of his corpses spawned the Sha just fine. The whispers? MU Gul'dan was dead, and his skull was able to hold proper conversation with people without any issue (in fact, better than the mainly one-sided whispers of the Old Gods). Medivh was dead, and yet he could still observe the real world, the Twisting Nether and send Aegwynn messages asking her to bring him back. Those are some of the examples, and certainly not all of them. You should know that in WoW, dead isn't the final end. Powerful beings, even in dead, can still interact with others in various manners and can always come back if there is enough energy. However, that doesn't change the fact that they are dead. The mechagnome (Ulduar Caretaker G33-WH12) treated the Faceless with annoyance instead of something of grave importance ("Not again! The keepers will make me fill out an incident report!") - do you think it, or the Keepers for that matter, would have reacted that way and keep Yogg's status a secret from us if it is alive again?

[Stardrift]

To save both of our time, I wouldn't argue with you about the Cataclysm, since I see that you just refused to trust Word of God - that's not how it works. Word of God is canonical by default, unless declared otherwise by the authors (in this case, Blizzard or their developers). Even if it's wrong (before the author said it), it will become canon afterwards. Heck, other than Word of God, Blizzard have stated multiple times, over many platforms (in-game quest texts, the comic, Twitter post, Yogg's own death scream, etc.) - if you don't want to trust any of those, then it's clear that you've made up your mind to ignore canon and nothing could convince you.

What about recent activities in Ulduar? Faceless Echoes were spawning from Saronite Cloud. What about it that indicated that Yogg was alive? Nothing. Y'Shaarj was dead and the remains of his corpses spawned the Sha just fine. The whispers? MU Gul'dan was dead, and his skull was able to hold proper conversation with people without any issue (in fact, better than the mainly one-sided whispers of the Old Gods). Medivh was dead, and yet he could still observe the real world, the Twisting Nether and send Aegwynn messages asking her to bring him back. Those are some of the examples, and certainly not all of them. You should know that in WoW, dead isn't the final end. Powerful beings, even in dead, can still interact with others in various manners and can always come back if there is enough energy. However, that doesn't change the fact that they are dead. The mechagnome (Ulduar Caretaker G33-WH12) treated the Faceless with annoyance instead of something of grave importance ("Not again! The keepers will make me fill out an incident report!") - do you think it, or the Keepers for that matter, would have reacted that way and keep Yogg's status a secret from us if it is alive again?

Keep lying to yourself. You'll see when it all eventually comes to Yogg and C'thun becoming fully active once again lol

[Lolites]

Well this is a good answer.

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They could just built them before...

im sure old gods and armies of their minions would let them build in peace, its not like there was a war going on...
they started to reshaping azeroth and building those devices after the old gods were imprisoned and it took god knows how long, so they did what they could asap so the old gods wouldnt win in the meantime, and the build devices as safety measures

[LazarusLong]

If repurposing the reorigination device to only affect a specific place was so easy why didnt the Titans do that in the first place?? This way they could have killed every old god without hurting the planet. Problem solved.

it was always fine for the planet to use reorigination device. It was not fine for life on that planet, but given the curse of flesh, why would titans bother?

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I repeat do you have anything other than metzen talking out of his ass? , if not, pls dont answer this. Bye.

Keep lying to yourself. You'll see when it all eventually comes to Yogg and C'thun becoming fully active once again lol

Man, should I take a word of the Warcraft creators or some shitposter pushing his headcanon? Tough choice.

[Aphrel]

Azeroth more powerful than all other titans combined confirmed!

[LazarusLong]

Azeroth more powerful than all other titans combined confirmed!

We know that Dark Titan Azeroth would be more powerful than all other titans.

[Qualia]

Keep lying to yourself. You'll see when it all eventually comes to Yogg and C'thun becoming fully active once again lol

Being dead doesn't mean that there is no chance whatsoever for Yogg, C'Thun, or pretty much every bosses we ever killed (perhaps except the demons killed in the Nether) to be active again, so that doesn't really matter. What you meant to say is if it will ever be revealed that Yogg and C'Thun have been alive all the time - which would be a retcon. As of now, there have been many indications and statements telling us that they are dead. If you don't want to trust canonical sources, then I can only turn your own words back to you, "keep lying to yourself"

[huth]

It's just his head canon. A horrendously stupid one at that. Yogg and C'thun are still alive. I'm just waiting for someone at Blizz to clear the stupidity surrounding this topic and say their bossfights are half-canon.

You mean the same Blizzard who went on record and told us they are in fact dead and the fights are full canon?

Because then you'll be waiting for a very long time.

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We know that Dark Titan Azeroth would be more powerful than all other titans.

Still want to see a Titan-Megazord, though.

Aman'thul: I'll form the head!

[Piamonte]

it was always fine for the planet to use reorigination device. It was not fine for life on that planet, but given the curse of flesh, why would titans bother?

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Man, should I take a word of the Warcraft creators or some shitposter pushing his headcanon? Tough choice.

No, you should take the word of what is shown in the game.

[LazarusLong]

No, you should take the word of what is shown in the game.

Or you should pay attention to the other sources.

In-game lore is just a part of the canon, along with books and information from creators, and the game does not necessarily present the actual state of the Warcraft lore.