why shaman dps spell are so terrible mana wise?

[Drunkenfinn]

Elemental is quite viable at least in MC.
Mana is not an issue when all fights are under 2 minutes (some under 1), just need to bring em' mana-consumables.

You wont be topping charts, but you wont be dead-last either and can actually do very well on the bosses where you can abuse CL (Lucifron, Gehennas and Sulfuron).

Resistances are not really an issue apart from Garr having slightly higher NR.

[Tiwack]

Just because you can cast all your spells doesn't mean you should. Stick to whatever you got talented and maintain your totems.

[SkagenRora]

You don't play it, That's how. Enhancement is not a viable spec in classic.

Enhancement is mainly stormstrike and waiting fory windfury auto attack proccs.

[Storfan]

This is insane, I'm going oom after x1 stormstrike + x1 chain lightning, this is terrible.... I think that the only spells that are cost efficient mana wise are the healing spells, am I wrong? why is it so terrible? how am I supposed to play the class if I'm going oom like this?

One word. Hybrid tax, or Troll toll.

[Schmilblick]

Because Vanilla was a beta version.

[Caperfin]

You don't play it, That's how. Enhancement is not a viable spec in classic.

Enhancement is mainly stormstrike and waiting fory windfury auto attack proccs.

Enh is viable in Classic. Enhancement don't use stormstrike, they use Ele fury.

[Specialka]

Enh is viable in Classic. Enhancement don't use stormstrike, they use Ele fury.

I do not understand those ppl that gimp themselves on purpose by playing subpar spec/class.

[Gratlim]

I do not understand those ppl that gimp themselves on purpose by playing subpar spec/class.

Because they are often more fun and engaging than meta specs (press 1 for frostbolt, auto attack DW to see crusader procs to heaven, so..much.. fun).

I play druid DPS so I can relate. Thing is, none of the content require optimal specs. But Classic is full of sheeps tryharding and min maxing following BiS guides, doing timed runs, split runs, you name it. So instead of having a fun and diverse Classic you end up with an hyper competitive pserver / M+ culture with no place for non sheeps.

[msdos]

Enhance is fun in dungeons, boring in raids. Elemental has really gimped sustained damage until BWL is on farm and bosses stop having fire immunity.

Resto just werks better. I get gear faster and that helps me go ele/resto quicker.

[Caperfin]

I do not understand those ppl that gimp themselves on purpose by playing subpar spec/class.

Typically, experienced players play subpar specs because they have the knowledge to push the spec to extraordinary levels without hindering the raid. All the while enjoying themselves with something fresh and new.

If you want to further trivialise a 15 years old game by all means go ahead.

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Because they are often more fun and engaging than meta specs (press 1 for frostbolt, auto attack DW to see crusader procs to heaven, so..much.. fun).

I play druid DPS so I can relate. Thing is, none of the content require optimal specs. But Classic is full of sheeps tryharding and min maxing following BiS guides, doing timed runs, split runs, you name it. So instead of having a fun and diverse Classic you end up with an hyper competitive pserver / M+ culture with no place for non sheeps.

pretty much yes

[Specialka]

Typically, experienced players play subpar specs because they have the knowledge to push the spec to extraordinary levels without hindering the raid. All the while enjoying themselves with something fresh and new.

If you want to further trivialise a 15 years old game by all means go ahead.

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pretty much yes

How about no? A subpar spec even played exceptionnally well can't compete with a pure dps for instance. So whatever you do, you are hindering the raid.

After that, maybe the raid do not care or whatever, but that is another matter.

[anon5123]

Did not someome tell you Shamans are useless in Classic? Why play an unviable class when there have been numbers all over the Internet telling how much they suck for over a decade.

"if you cannot top DPS meters, you are useless and unviable"

Found the retail player.

[Rixxis]

For those who say that I shouldn't use CL in the same rotation with SS then how do you use the nature buff of SS? ES? I'm still going oom. Shall I use ss only? even this is intensive tbh.

Basically, in order to not get oom, I have to use 2-3 totems max and go autoattack mode with windfury. Healing spells are efficient considering that I'm enhancement. Elemental spells and shocks are baaaad and I don't think going elemental with int gear will save it.

Does untalented mana spring worth casting? wouldn't that waste more mana than gain in a short fight?

Yes, you're supposed to use the SS debuff on Earth Shocks which is one of the reasons Stormstrike is awful and one of the most overrated 31 point talents in the game. Eventually if you want to raid as Enhance you won't even take it and you can go get NS or EF.

You are supposed to go OOM if you shock on CD by design. Blizzard didn't want a class that can do sustained damage and heal at the same time. I have no idea why Stormstrike mana is so high considering it actually just sucks, but apparently Blizzard thought is was good enough to warrant using 1/10th of your mana pool to do 200 more damage. But notice how all healing hybrids have this problem - Shadow Priests go oom in a 1 minute, Boomkins are called OOMkins for a reason, and Ele is the same as enhance.

Untalented Mana Spring is worth casting in the sense that you get more mana than you spend but only after long enough that it basically doesn't matter at all. The totem is there to help your group, barely does anything for you. If the fight is less than 20 seconds it is indeed less mana for you individually.

[Caperfin]

How about no? A subpar spec even played exceptionnally well can't compete with a pure dps for instance. So whatever you do, you are hindering the raid.

After that, maybe the raid do not care or whatever, but that is another matter.

Never said they outperform traditional spec. And what's so bad if they can't compete? will the raid fall apart?

You are grossly exaggerating the necessary dps to kill a boss.

[iosdeveloper]

say thanks you have Stormstrike at all, pallies never got their Crusader Strike in vanilla

[Specialka]

Never said they outperform traditional spec. And what's so bad if they can't compete? will the raid fall apart?

You are grossly exaggerating the necessary dps to kill a boss.

I am just saying that you are hindering the raid if you play those specs. If the raid does not matter about that, there is no issue obv. BUT you are hindering nonetheless.

[Ruchia]

It's L2P in that Shamans shouldn't be using Stormstrike and Chain Lightning in the same combat - they're components of two different spec rotations.

Also, all hybrids have terrible mana costs because they're intended to be healers at 60 in PvE. Simple as that.

2 points
1) yes blizzard kinda went that way
2) a good hybrid worth his salt goes out of his way to make himself valuable. Sorry if people thought this was retail. But yea. If you're a hybrid 90% of your bank slots are gear or you just stick to the "pretermined spec"

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I am just saying that you are hindering the raid if you play those specs. If the raid does not matter about that, there is no issue obv. BUT you are hindering nonetheless.

Hindering is really not the right choice of words here.

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Never said they outperform traditional spec. And what's so bad if they can't compete? will the raid fall apart?

You are grossly exaggerating the necessary dps to kill a boss.

As well. Contributions can lie in very small and unexpected things.

What was that saying again "bring the player, not the spec" ?

[Caperfin]

I am just saying that you are hindering the raid if you play those specs. If the raid does not matter about that, there is no issue obv. BUT you are hindering nonetheless.

You must be in an insanely casual/new guild to be a hindrance in a 15 year old game or doing progression. I don't see it being a problem in any other scenario.

[Specialka]

You must be in an insanely casual/new guild to be a hindrance in a 15 year old game or doing progression. I don't see it being a problem in any other scenario.

Looks like you lack some reading comprehension. Since you will dps less with one of those specs, the boss will die slower, meaning you could need another healer, which would also mean less raid dps, etc... You are hindering the raid whatever you say, bro. Even if you have far more than the dps required to down the boss, you would kill it faster with a true dps spec.

[Caperfin]

2 points

What was that saying again "bring the player, not the spec" ?

wait... im confused that's what I am saying, the player makes the spec work. A spec will not destroy a raid but the player might.

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Looks like you lack some reading comprehension. Since you will dps less with one of those specs, the boss will die slower, meaning you could need another healer, which would also mean less raid dps, etc... You are hindering the raid whatever you say, bro. Even if you have far more than the dps required to down the boss, you would kill it faster with a true dps spec.

Sorry I am used to talking with people that assume off meta spec add hours to a run and completely break a raid apart. I took the word hindrance to far.