Preach drops some unexpected and well-articulated truth bombs

[Yoshingo]

oh really? thats why subscriptions trippled with classic? (which means double the people play classic than bfd)?.

Sure show me any kind of proof any of this nonsense is even remotely true.

[ercarp]

You must've loathed BfA then.

'unrealistic conditions' lmao plz, going back to a gearing system from 2-3 expansions ago is not remotely an unrealistic condition.

I did loathe BfA, you're very correct. The problem is that people are expecting them to remove every single bad thing in the game all at once. That's the unrealistic condition. They've only recently started to come to their senses about Titanforging and the lack of power-ups while leveling being bad for the game, so those are two things I can expect to get "fixed" in 9.0.

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This forum has two types of people, those who are die hard Blizzard fans that don't want to hear any criticism about the game, and then those who absolutely hate the game. There seems to be no in between. I'm guessing you fall into the first category.

When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me. Your guess isn't even close to being correct. I'll happily criticize Titanforging, LFR, the lack of power-ups while leveling, Allied Races being a chore to unlock, HoA being a terrible successor to Legiondaries, lack of character customization, M+ being terrible in BfA, zones feeling too dense, etc. etc.

I'm not blind to the flaws in the game, but I also don't have the time to watch some doomer tell me how I shouldn't be excited about BlizzCon because "they aren't going to fix the right things, all at once, in this one expansion." I have much, much bigger worries in my life than that. If the expansion is fun, that's all that matters to me.

[Gaidax]

This bullshit again.

Different people like different things... mindblown.

[Firedemon]

True. These system just added complexity to the point of being a massive Simfest.

As far as multiple options to progress and things to do, that's one of the good things it has over classic where it's either you raid or you're done progressing your character.
Won't count PvP as gear progression as it takes an absurd amount of time for little gain.

[Monoxide]

I did loathe BfA, you're very correct. The problem is that people are expecting them to remove every single bad thing in the game all at once. That's the unrealistic condition. They've only recently started to come to their senses about Titanforging and the lack of power-ups while leveling being bad for the game, so those are two things I can expect to get "fixed" in 9.0.

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When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me. Your guess isn't even close to being correct. I'll happily criticize Titanforging, LFR, the lack of power-ups while leveling, Allied Races being a chore to unlock, HoA being a terrible successor to Legiondaries, lack of character customization, M+ being terrible in BfA, zones feeling too dense, etc. etc.

I'm not blind to the flaws in the game, but I also don't have the time to watch some doomer tell me how I shouldn't be excited about BlizzCon because "they aren't going to fix the right things, all at once, in this one expansion." I have much, much bigger worries in my life than that. If the expansion is fun, that's all that matters to me.

If you're unwilling to watch the video the topic is about, why bother commenting on the topic? That doesn't make any sense.

Also, what the fuck is a doomer? Is this some cool new buzzword people use to entirely dismiss other people? Neat.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Ok, so OP is one of those guys who watches other people talking then sucks in their opinions instead of forming their own. Good job beeing a sheep I guess.

So anyone who disagrees with you is a sheep? People aren't allowed to have different opinions than yours because it makes them a sheep. You see where i'm going with this right?

@Klingers: This site seriously has more blizzard apologists than the official forums. You have a better chance of having a proper discussion over there. Over here you will mostly get a lot of hypocrites offending you for not believing WoW anything short of perfection.

[ercarp]

If you're unwilling to watch the video the topic is about, why bother commenting on the topic? That doesn't make any sense.

Also, what the fuck is a doomer? Is this some cool new buzzword people use to entirely dismiss other people? Neat.

Because I wrote that comment on my phone in the morning, twenty minutes before my bus was leaving. Even if I wanted to watch the video—which I don't—I wouldn't have had the time. So I commented on the subject of the thread, not the video itself. OP gave a TLDW if you missed it.

It's a person who essentially believes everything is going to end up the worst way possible. Kind of like a doomsayer? At least that's how I use the term. I know some people use it as a generational buzzword alongside boomer and whatnot.

[dlhak]

Yes I could not agree less with his last video. he just explained to me why I stopped playing bfa.

[kamuimac]

And there was me thinking people were moaning like fuck only 3 years ago in WOD cos there was nothing to do

2 completly different groups of people

First - Raiders - who prefer raiding symulator when they log in 2 times a week , raid for 3-4 hours and log out.

Second - Normal players - enjoying titanforging , ap , WQ , WF and all that BfA offers.

guess who always win

and this is why we got crap like WoD.

8.3 will flop hard exackly because of this.

[RoKPaNda]

The problem is that "All the shit you hate." is all the shit that a bunch of other players love. Listening to someone like Preach who represents a very small minority of players would be absolutely catastrophic. They're never going to alienate the casuals that keep this game afloat to impress Preach, or myself, or OP. They tried that in WOD and it cost them dearly. Preach's ideal WoW is a dead WoW.

[Naramag]

I was watching Preach's video "I'm At Blizzcon - Hype and Thoughts Going in" and got a surprisingly thorough articulation of the way I've been feeling for the last two expacs, which is why I've dropped off playing.

The dev team, Ion in particular, would be well-served to pull their heads out of their arses and listen to what Preach said.

<video snipped: videos belong in the video sticky>

Too long didn't watch; I'm really paraphrasing Preach's far better dialogue, but basically the game's too fucking busy. There's too many course corrections. Too many systems. Too many major mid-expansion class or gearing changes. Too much time-gating. Too many chores. Too much complication.

I hadn't framed it in the same terms Preach did before today, but to be honest it's probably why I stopped playing in very-early Legion. I've been playing since Vanilla and I've been a fan of the Warcraft franchise since the mid-90's... But as much as I still enjoy keeping up with the major story beats, watching all the cut-scenes etc, the thought of actually playing BFA makes me sick. The treadmill, the grind walls, the systems confusion, the time gating... Just... Ugh. For me it started with Garrisons (which made me quit for the middle three quarters of WoD) and only went downhill.

There's a reason fans came back to Vanilla, and it's not just nostalgia. Some of it is just a live version of WoW with easily-defined parameters with far less hoops to go through to achieve a set goal for yourself.

I agree with Preach. The only dot-point feature I want to see in the next expansion's preview trailer is:

• We're removing all the shit you hate.

So, basically he says people getting stressed out by the game? If so, I don't see it being the games fault. If people are overwhelmed, can't keep up or can't adapt to changes, it's them.

And to the dot-point: "Removing all the shit you hate"... who is "you" in this context? The majority? Those who argue the loudest? The few guys who write real letters to Blizzard to complain? Those who are most vocal about something might not even be the majority. Those who are content might say anything. Even if ten thousand players hate a certain part of the game, there might be a million players who are silently playing that certain part because they love it.

[Niroshi]

OP's entire post is an opinion post about Preach's opinion. You clever people poking holes in him about how other people like different things aren't grasping that and you look dumb as rocks as a result.

[Drdragon]

2 completly different groups of people

First - Raiders - who prefer raiding symulator when they log in 2 times a week , raid for 3-4 hours and log out.

Second - Normal players - enjoying titanforging , ap , WQ , WF and all that BfA offers.

guess who always win

and this is why we got crap like WoD.

8.3 will flop hard exackly because of this.

AP and endless rep grinds and gating have been the most draining, awful things I as a causal have ever experienced in WoW.

[Sliske]

Pretty much the only thing i dislike about BFA is the need to do everything on multiple characters.

- Getting azerite pieces on your main felt good to me. I loved the power increase, i loved chasing the right traits.
- Getting all of the essences and leveling them up felt good to me, besides the conflict and strife + raid one. I don't enjoy arena, and raiding right now is not something i wanna spend my time on. It takes something like 30 weeks of LFR just to get rank 2 raid essence. Its insane. I ended up doing the arena one and getting 1800 while i was at it, but still, i don't wanna be forced to do arena. Incentivise, don't force.
- The neck, again, really fun to farm up. Loved reaching milestones and getting more bonuses.

But there is not a chance in fucking hell i will ever do it again. Its just too long. In 4.3 i had 10 alts in heroic dragon soul gear, that also did arena or rbgs. In 5.4 i had around 8 alts that could do heroic SoO and arena. In 7.3.5 i could do heroic antorus on many alts as well.

Now, one thing to note - this isn't the final patch. Blizzard is notorious for having some pretty shitty early patches, then releasing the great ones that make classes fun, alts viable etc, at the final patch. Love it or hate it, its just a fact.

So, with that said ,i think it is 100% likely that essences will either be account wide, or able to to be bought by main characters with war resources and mailed to alts. Neck is just a scaling issue and will be solved.

Azerite gear? I'm unsure. I think they'll want at least one thing for you to grind on alts.

[Mirishka]

I was watching Preach's video "I'm At Blizzcon - Hype and Thoughts Going in" and got a surprisingly thorough articulation of the way I've been feeling for the last two expacs, which is why I've dropped off playing.

*snip because I don't care*

I agree with Preach. The only dot-point feature I want to see in the next expansion's preview trailer is:

• We're removing all the shit you hate.

Speaking of the good old days, I miss the days when people could think for themselves, and come up with their own opinions on things. You know, the pre-OMG PREECH SAID A THING I SHOULD RUN 2 MMO AND MAKE A TOPIK BOUT IT days.

And frankly it is stupid, utterly fucking stupid, to suggest Blizz remove 'all the shit' we hate because - surprise - there is no objective list of things people hate about WoW.

What you hate, another person loves. You think WoD was the worst expansion, some people think it was one of the best. You hate Titanforging, other players love it. You love to PvP, but some think PvP is horribly balanced and a waste of time. You love orcs, others are sick to death of them. You hate humans, some players wouldn't play as anything BUT a human. And I could list a thousand more examples if I wanted to waste more of my morning. There'd be nothing left if we removed everything someone didn't like about the game.

Now this is a radical suggestion, but maybe people who don't enjoy WoW should - come closer, I want to be sure you hear this - uninstall the game and move on with their lives.

[Gasparde]

Oh boy, a Preach thread?! Can't wait for the countless valuable replies a la fuck that guy, he's so shit, he's fat, he's not even good, he should just quit, I hate him, why would anyone in the world care, omg I so hate that guy!

[Drdragon]

Oh boy, a Preach thread?! Can't wait for the countless valuable replies a la fuck that guy, he's so shit, he's fat, he's not even good, he should just quit, I hate him, why would anyone in the world care, omg I so hate that guy!

I wonder if these kinds of people are neutral players who are not affiliated with blizzard in any way shape or form.

[Ange]

CONTENT CREATORS are not really interested in a good game for the majority, they just blow up everything out of proportion to get some views.

But you cant blame him or anyone else for doing this, since they know pretty well what the typical viewer wants to see and hear or they would be not popular at all. The viewers want a reason to not play the game, so they give them a steady stream of excuses to quit.

Nothing wrong with that, but why even bring this kind of non-player community talk into a gaming forum? If you want to quit the game, just quit, nobody wants or needs your reasoning for it.

[Gasparde]

I wonder if these kinds of people are neutral players who are not affiliated with blizzard in any way shape or form.

For the most part they just seem like jealous idiots.

It's always like:
Random guy comes up with an idea and creates a thread about it: Let's have a discussion about this
Random guy watches a streamer/youtuber video and wants to know what other think about the points of the video: Uuuughghhgufnkljn, fuck that guy, why should anyone care, streamer opinions are worthless, fuck youuuuu

Like, you can't just come here and have a reasonable discussion with these people. It has to be some sort of minority complex making these guys go completely mental everytime someone brings up someone else's ideas - because, clearly, an idea is only worth discussing if you're the one who came up with it.

[Craaazyyy]

CONTENT CREATORS are not really interested in a good game for the majority, they just blow up everything out of proportion to get some views.

But you cant blame him or anyone else for doing this, since they know pretty well what the typical viewer wants to see and hear or they would be not popular at all. The viewers want a reason to not play the game, so they give them a steady stream of excuses to quit.

Nothing wrong with that, but why even bring this kind of non-player community talk into a gaming forum? If you want to quit the game, just quit, nobody wants or needs your reasoning for it.

yeah, someone who's been playing the game for 15 years just want some views and doesn't really want to play the game, or want the game to be better.. yeah