Preach drops some unexpected and well-articulated truth bombs

[Mirishka]

What you and Preach really don't get is that what you hate, many other players love. Basically what you are saying is "Blizzard needs to make the game exactly the way I want because I am the only one who matters".

It's time for you to realize you are not the the only one playing the game. Your preach worship makes me take you even less seriously.

Exactly.

/10char

[muto]

MC and Onyxia were cleared by a raid of 57s, 58s, 59s, and 60s in blues and greens.

Yeah Classic is more about the journey than the destination. It’s still far more of a grind. My point is that you can be pretty well decked out in a day in modern WoW and you were lucky if you even saw a drop from a raid boss in Classic.

[rrayy]

So anyone who disagrees with you is a sheep? People aren't allowed to have different opinions than yours because it makes them a sheep. You see where i'm going with this right?

@Klingers: This site seriously has more blizzard apologists than the official forums. You have a better chance of having a proper discussion over there. Over here you will mostly get a lot of hypocrites offending you for not believing WoW anything short of perfection.

Show me one person who thinks Blizzard is perfect? YOu won't. Typical strawman from the "I'm always right, Blizzard is always wrong" crowd.

[Yoshingo]

Yeah Classic is more about the journey than the destination. It’s still far more of a grind. My point is that you can be pretty well decked out in a day in modern WoW and you were lucky if you even saw a drop from a raid boss in Classic.

Okay.

So your first comment was a sleight against live by saying you can be "raid ready for mythic in a day" and then when someone points out that Onyxia and MC were cleared by a group of people who weren't even all max level and in shit gear, you change your comment to "Its about the journey."

I swear its like clockwork. Its always trying to argue that Classic was somehow harder which then changes to 'Its about the journey' the second the first claim is shown to be laughably false. I wonder what the next one will be. Here we go:

It's about the journey, huh? Then why was everyone rushing to get to max level as soon as possible. Every classic streamer, everybody playing for 24+ hours on launch day, and everybody playing obsessively the week it came out?

What were they all doing? Were they just wandering around? No.

They were rushing to the end. So much so that people were disregarding entire systems of the game, like dungeons and quests, and just farming the same packs of mobs for many hours at a time. Or some were using guides to know exactly what quests, where, and when to do and which to avoid for the maximum exp/hr possible. Or, were just spamming the same dungeon a thousand times to farm exp. Or, were abusing the sharding mechanic to keep jumping to new shards for mob respawns. Abusing a system they bitched about endlessly just to get to the end faster.

All of which are the actions of people RUSHING to get to the end of the game. The idea that classic was about the journey is a myth. It was always about the end game. It just TOOK longer to get there because of arbitrary nonsense. That doesn't mean the game was "about" the journey. That was only something people started saying wayyyyyy after the fact about Vanilla. And only to shit on live.

[dcc626]

Oh god, are people just going to nonstop spam this video like people did with his "The Problem with MoP" video?

how could people have had a problem with MoP? i hear all the time now that it was the pinnacle of game design /s

[muto]

@Yoshingo

Lol read between the lines more. The sleight was that Classic is more of a grind. Has nothing to do with raiding. It was an example.

[Yoshingo]

@Yoshingo

Lol read between the lines more. The sleight was that Classic is more of a grind. Has nothing to do with raiding. It was an example.

You literally mentioned mythic raiding in your post. But I guess raiding had nothing to do with raiding.

[Moonsorrow]

[.snipe]

I agree with Preach. The only dot-point feature I want to see in the next expansion's preview trailer is:

• We're removing all the shit you hate.

Which is easily defined and mutually agreed by all players, not!
What you like and don't like is subjective. Blizz can never please everyone...

[muto]

You literally mentioned mythic raiding in your post.

Yeah and? It was to point out that you can be fully geared in a day. In Classic it took way longer to get geared, because you had to walk/flightpath everywhere, and there was no loot trading, so you couldn’t abuse the system by running with 4 other plate characters.

[TheProphetLord]

I don’t want classic. But I don’t like how the game has evolved now. I would like a happy medium.

Give me back class abilities. Give me grinds that are optional but worth doing in the end. I want something that ties across the expansion, something I can work towards. Perhaps like the legendary cloak/ring.

[Donald Hellscream]

There are no universal truths on this matter, Preach is speaking from the position of a mythic raider and a person who just wants to be able to log in, raid and log off without having to log in every day to keep his character on par, so of course he is gonna hate infinite progression systems that does "force" people to log in every day.

And his points are probably valid for someone in his position but its far from calling it an issue for every single player. Blizzard could probably do away with titanforging or atleast rein it in abit so the gap between a baseline piece and a fully titanforged one isn't so astronomical but having some random variables in gearing makes it more interesting than just a static value, atleast to me.

[Yoshingo]

Yeah and? It was to point out that you can be fully geared in a day. In Classic it took way longer to get geared, because you had to walk/flightpath everywhere, and there was no loot trading, so you couldn’t abuse the system by running with 4 other plate characters.

Yeah nobody ever carried people through instances to get gear back in Vanilla. You're right. Raids DEFINITELY didn't have people making amazing epic crafted gear and implemented entire loot systems to make sure specific people got specific pieces of gear.

Also your entire argument about "getting geared" is nonsense because you dont even need to be geared to do the content. As was pointed out. Endgame of phase 1 was cleared by randos in crap gear. And when BWL comes out, the same will happen. And when AQ comes out, the same will happen. And when Naxx comes out, the same will happen.

I'd also love to see where you are a fresh 120 and get fully geared to be NOT a hindrance in a mythic raid in the same day. At best you're being 100% carried. Sounds like something somebody says who doesn't actually know how gearing is right now in the game.

[Demetrion]

Only thing I want to see them doing is removing the bloody TF/WF system. It has been cancer since it's introduction to the game.

There is no worse feeling than getting an item you really want, just to see it being normal ilvl and not TF/WF.

Back in Legion, we were clearing mythic Antorus on weekly basis, and I really wanted Acrid Catalyst Injector. It finally dropped just to be normal version without socket/tf/wf. The feeling was just awful, especially when a friend got 15 ilvl with socket on same kill from bonus roll.

[unbound]

If the lore is good and the gameplay is fun, I'll enjoy the expansion.

Pretty sure that is what the OP is saying as well.

If you enjoy the current state of WoW and want it to continue that way, then more power to you.

However, for myself and the vast majority of those that used to enjoy WoW (realistically, Retail is likely below 2 million subs now or more than an 8 million drop in subs since peak), the current state of WoW is anything but good lore or fun gameplay.

That is why Classic has been such a breath of fresh air, even though it is incredibly old. I'm blown away that my slow-leveling alt is still working in highly crowded low level zones, so I know that I'm not the only one appreciating how much better, in our opinions, the old WoW is compared to Retail. If Blizz had put in good faith effort into Retail, then Classic should be have a disastrous failure.

And the fact that Classic is going quite strong more than 2 months after launch now clearly demonstrates that it wasn't just nostalgia (and I'm not interested in hearing where the goalpost has moved to now...both Blizz and the Classic haters were clear that people would run away at high speed shortly after experiencing Vanilla again, claiming that Classic would be deserted within weeks of launch). Whether people want to accept it or not doesn't really matter...clearly there is a significant gap in enjoyment from where WoW started to where WoW is today.

[muto]

Yeah nobody ever carried people through instances to get gear back in Vanilla. You're right. Raids DEFINITELY had people making amazing epic crafted gear and implemented entire loot systems to make sure specific people got specific pieces of gear.

Also your entire argument about "getting geared" is nonsense because you dont even need to be geared to do the content. As was pointed out. Endgame of phase 1 was cleared by randos in crap gear. And when BWL comes out, the same will happen. And when AQ comes out, the same will happen. And when Naxx comes out, the same will happen.

I'd also love to see where you are a fresh 120 and get fully geared to be NOT a hindrance in a mythic raid in the same day. At best you're being 100% carried.

Nope not true at all we had several re-rolls that we geared up through m+ and brought into Mythic and they did well. Not BiS well, but well enough to kill the boss. Only thing they were missing was Azerite/Trinkets.

[Mirishka]

Only thing I want to see them doing is removing the bloody TF/WF system. It has been cancer since it's introduction to the game.

They are, starting with the 8.3 raid.

[Yoshingo]

Nope not true at all we had several re-rolls that we geared up through m+ and brought into Mythic and they did well. Not BiS well, but well enough to kill the boss.

So you carried people. Congratulations.

People sell carries for mythic in trade chat all the time.

[muto]

So you carried people. Congratulations.

People sell carries for mythic in trade chat all the time.

Lol they weren’t carried. The bosses didn’t enrage, and they pulled weight enough.

[Yoshingo]

Lol they weren’t carried. The bosses didn’t enrage, and they pulled weight enough.

Then you carried them.

We can keep moving the goalposts more if you want. Just say they didn't stand in the fire. Therefore they weren't carried.

[muto]

Then you carried them.

We can keep moving the goalposts more if you want. Just say they didn't stand in the fire. Therefore they weren't carried.

They didn’t stand in the fire.