Blizzard needs to EMBRACE flying...

[Shiza]

No it boils down to meeting other players, no be able to avoid danger which in bfa lacks becouse mobs are not threat at all but thats different issue, makes world feel much much smaller, destroys immersion, etc.. Ofc flying itself isnt casuing all this but definitly adds to it.

Not being able to fly is just tedious. It's not our fault that Blizz creats content that is tedious and annoying without a flying mount. It's not our fault that Blizzard fails to creat a game that remains immersive, big and fun while travelling and doing activities.

[Kaleredar]

Why not? Maybe people should consider fact that in mmo game you are not supostu just fly over everthing what stands in way getting from A to B including players themself. Any decent developer can give number of reasons why it is good thing to keep players grounded no matter how many times you have done content.

1) The A to B of traveling becomes incredibly pointless and irritating after like... the fifth... time doing it. And when you have dailies that are going to require you to do that for the better part of at LEAST a month... it's not compelling in the least.

2) world PvP has been dead for a long, long time. Since Vanilla, really. Nobody cares about "flying over" other players.

2.5) Having to be around other players in a non-PvP atmosphere does not induce players to cooperate with one another if it's not necessary to. Hell, the most "player interaction because of no flying" I remember was on the timeless isle, where you'd wait before the bridges with the elite charging yaungol for some other player to cross it first and aggro them because you didn't want to deal with it.

3) As for "decent developers..." Flying was accessible at max level in both BC and WotLK, which are both widely considered the best expansions. No one complained about it then.


I'd honestly say Blizzard is hampering themselves by handicapping their designers with "no flying until some nebulous point in the expansion." By the current design philosophy we'd have never gotten zones like Storm Peaks or Icecrown or other zones designed on massive scales.

Frankly, having flying allows Blizzard to add mystery to a zone. When you're leveling up through an area and can't fly and see a huge plateau, or an impassable mountain range, but know that flying is in your future, you're intrigued by what might be up there. What max level will open up to you.

But if you're not going to be able to fly, you know what's going to be on top of the huge plateau or impassable mountain range? Nothing. Because you were never intended to go up there. Sure, you can cheese your way up there with engineering gadgets and such, but... so what? Blizzard never intended for it to be seen at anything but from a vast distance.

So everything that the player is "supposed" to engage with is limited to somewhere you can just saunter up to. Which really removes any aspect of mystery.

[Elias01]

They should have it where you reach max level and you can buy flying for the new zone. You should not have to do every quest for the game to get it. Just give people discounts on it if they want to do every damn quest in the game. If flying is ruining the game just about everybody is getting anyways.

Sure 500k gold per character should be enough for current gold inflation.

[Schattenlied]

Sure 500k gold per character should be enough for current gold inflation.

Yeahno, only for people that play 24/7...

[Elias01]

1) The A to B of traveling becomes incredibly pointless and irritating after like... the fifth... time doing it. And when you have dailies

2) world PvP has been dead for a long, long time. Since Vanilla, really. Nobody cares about "flying over" other players.

3) Having to be around other players in a non-PvP atmosphere does not induce players to cooperate with one another if it's not necessary to. Hell, the most "player interaction because of no flying" I remember was on the timeless isle, where you'd wait before the bridges with the elite charging yaungol for some other player to cross it first and aggro them because you didn't want to deal with it.

4) As for "decent developers..." Flying was accessible at max level in both BC and WotLK, which are both widely considered the best expansions. No one complained about it then.

Players are nor developers. They dont know what is good and what isnt. Players will always lobe covinience but only till that coviniece start taking its tax. You are on the groind metting players and being in immeraive world than flying came in together with all other covinieces and few years later game have no community, players are bored, time gates are implemented, players entilted, everthing what is consideret as traveling is in mmorpg game considered as time waste like wtf really.

[Zandalariprelate]

Agree, flying after the first 2 or 3 months could be ok but 1 whole year? That literally kills any wish to play with any alt at all.

[Elias01]

Yeahno, only for people that play 24/7...

No for everyone. TBC flying also took months for casual player to get so to meet current inflation 500k seems reasonable.

[nonameelf]

Players are nor developers. They dont know what is good and what isnt. Players will always lobe covinience but only till that coviniece start taking its tax. You are on the groind metting players and being in immeraive world than flying came in together with all other covinieces and few years later game have no community, players are bored, time gates are implemented, players entilted, everthing what is consideret as traveling is in mmorpg game considered as time waste like wtf really.

No one fucking meets other players when they're AFK on a fucking flight path.

Wrath and MoP were the best expansions. Guess what they had? Flying.
WoD and BfA are the worst expansions, guess what they have? A ton of pointless time gating and no flying.

[Krelivane]

They could meet their anti-flying needs with reasons why we can't fly in specific expansions.

Especially in the rumored death themed expansion, for example, flying for too long could deteriorate your health at a rapid pace. Which still allows it, but would prevent abusing it.

I suppose. That still wouldn't be embracing it though. Literally just having content that is only accessible through flying would save the mechanic and make it enjoyable.

In my opinion at least :P

[Kaleredar]

Players are nor developers. They dont know what is good and what isnt. Players will always lobe covinience but only till that coviniece start taking its tax. You are on the groind metting players and being in immeraive world than flying came in together with all other covinieces and few years later game have no community, players are bored, time gates are implemented, players entilted, everthing what is consideret as traveling is in mmorpg game considered as time waste like wtf really.

If your approach to video game design is "PLAYERS WILL HAVE TOO MUCH FUN! THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR THEM!" maybe stay away from game development.

[Krelivane]

1) The A to B of traveling becomes incredibly pointless and irritating after like... the fifth... time doing it. And when you have dailies that are going to require you to do that for the better part of at LEAST a month... it's not compelling in the least.

2) world PvP has been dead for a long, long time. Since Vanilla, really. Nobody cares about "flying over" other players.

2.5) Having to be around other players in a non-PvP atmosphere does not induce players to cooperate with one another if it's not necessary to. Hell, the most "player interaction because of no flying" I remember was on the timeless isle, where you'd wait before the bridges with the elite charging yaungol for some other player to cross it first and aggro them because you didn't want to deal with it.

3) As for "decent developers..." Flying was accessible at max level in both BC and WotLK, which are both widely considered the best expansions. No one complained about it then.


I'd honestly say Blizzard is hampering themselves by handicapping their designers with "no flying until some nebulous point in the expansion." By the current design philosophy we'd have never gotten zones like Storm Peaks or Icecrown or other zones designed on massive scales.

Frankly, having flying allows Blizzard to add mystery to a zone. When you're leveling up through an area and can't fly and see a huge plateau, or an impassable mountain range, but know that flying is in your future, you're intrigued by what might be up there. What max level will open up to you.

But if you're not going to be able to fly, you know what's going to be on top of the huge plateau or impassable mountain range? Nothing. Because you were never intended to go up there. Sure, you can cheese your way up there with engineering gadgets and such, but... so what? Blizzard never intended for it to be seen at anything but from a vast distance.

So everything that the player is "supposed" to engage with is limited to somewhere you can just saunter up to. Which really removes any aspect of mystery.

This, this, this and this.

The sense of mystery and larger-than-life zones & environments are what make a video game so intriguing. Flying is a huge fantasy aspect and should be embraced with the same large and diverse scope in mind when making zones and world content.

I mean am I wrong? I don't see how they're missing this point in their game design.

[Dracullus]

I totally agree with Preach... Pathfinder is not a compromise.

I would go further and say that Pathfinder is actually the worst of all possible worlds. It is a grind that gives you limited, often feeling "too little too late", access. You don't always know how valuable it's going to be, because sometimes it's available for the rest of the expansion, other times it's just for a patch or half a patch. It's basically a carrot that you get late in the game, then every few months it gets taken away, then you have to grind again and you get it. It's terrible.

Instead of calling it "an elegant compromise" Blizzard should just be honest and say, "Pathfinder is how we fuck with you."

It is compromise, unless you live in your bubble, like Preach, and ignore no-flying crowd. Why do you think flying/no-flying threads reach thousand of pages and there is always heated discussion there? And funny stuff, Preach was pro no-flying at the start of WoW, but now he must do stuff before raid, so he switched his opinion 180.

[Keristrasza]

I'm almost certain that this has been talked about before... but.

To take away flying would ruin the game at this point. So the only option left is for Blizzard to embrace flying and make zones, islands, questing areas etc; only available through it. This was done in Wrath I believe and I remember it being a really enjoyable experience having to fly to the top of Storm Peaks or wherever it was; as it was the only way to get there.

Embrace this mechanic and make it a true character of the game's design. Don't just have it as an ease of access tool to get around the zones. Having that as Flying's only benefit is ~ B O R I N G ~.

It's a subjective topic I suppose but, am I wrong?

I wish, but blizzard is intent on listening to the minority that feel that flying somehow impacts their ability to enjoy the game and would rather take it from those that do enjoy it.

[Nihilist74]

Way way too much. Should just be 10k.

[nonameelf]

It is compromise, unless you live in your bubble, like Preach, and ignore no-flying crowd. Why do you think flying/no-flying threads reach thousand of pages and there is always heated discussion there? And funny stuff, Preach was pro no-flying at the start of WoW, but now he must do stuff before raid, so he switched his opinion 180.

No. The compromise would be people who don't like flying can choose to not fly and people that like flying can choose to fly.

Perfect compromise.

[schwarzkopf]

Indeed - that's why Classic is so popular, because of flying.

No - Blizzard needs to DITCH flying completely, or at worst make it for old content only.

Then they need to make the ground more interesting.

Problems need to be solved, not avoided OP.

[Elias01]

No one fucking meets other players when they're AFK on a fucking flight path.

Wrath and MoP were the best expansions. Guess what they had? Flying.
WoD and BfA are the worst expansions, guess what they have? A ton of pointless time gating and no flying.

No wrath wasnt best expansion at all. Best was TBC which had biggest player grow what stop during wrath as players started quiting due to game desing changes. And definitly wasnt best becouse of flying.

[Kaleredar]

It is compromise, unless you live in your bubble, like Preach, and ignore no-flying crowd.

They're worth ignoring.

[schwarzkopf]

No. The compromise would be people who don't like flying can choose to not fly and people that like flying can choose to fly.

That makes no sense - making two complete sets of content for each group of people would be insanity.

[nonameelf]

Indeed - that's why Classic is so popular, because of flying.

No - Blizzard needs to DITCH flying completely, or at worst make it for old content only.

Then they need to make the ground more interesting.

Problems need to be solved, not avoided OP.

Too bad WoW's most popular expansions had flying.

- - - Updated - - -

That makes no sense - making two complete sets of content for each group of people would be insanity.

No, you just mount up on your little ground mount and run around on the ground all you please. Your choice should not be enforced on other players, ever.