Blizzard needs to EMBRACE flying...

[conceptKitty]

While it's useful and quick, I don't mind flying being scrapped forever. I still don't have my BFA flying and me hating the shit out of Mechagon can't be bothered.

I know they won't do that though, and that's ok.

[Santti]

I think I prefer the way it is now. You play the world like it's actually there. And when you have seen it all a hundred times, you can get to fly.

I don't want flying being available too fast. Flying has always been kind of dumb in WoW. The way flying works in wow, makes it too... easy and convenient. I can definitely see it from developers perspective why they don't really like flying, and why they were thinking of removing it. Flying makes the world completely flat. It dumbs the game too much.

And don't give me that rubbish of "Oh, if you don't like flying, then don't fly." I don't accept it as an argument, because if Blizzard were to introduce an instant teleport to get to wherever you wanted, people would gladly use it. Or better yet, a button that completed all the quests. Or even more crazy, complete all the dungeons, with all of it's loot. And be glad these options existed. I would damn well whine, but some gits would, of course, say that tired crap of "don't like it, don't use it". And flying as it is now, does fall into this category of "too easy/convenient", in my opinion.

[Charge me Doctor]

I often wonder if flying would be as popular if it wasn't for the ridiculous speed difference between ground and air. If the speeds were reversed, I wonder if anyone would ever mention it.

Just look at TBC, where first flying speed was basically level 40 mount speed. Back then it was a compromise between speed and noclipping through world, sometimes you wanted to fly, sometimes you didn't (because it was slow). Nowadays flying is so much faster that it's literally not an option to use a ground mount - it both slower, puts you in risk of attacked by players/NPCs, increases your path time - there is literally no reason to use a ground mount these days, which is just idiotic decision on blizzards part.
That's why flying needs to be removed or toned down significantly, getting it back to +60% speed would be a great start - people who can't live without beelining into WQ areas while watching azmongold will still be happy, and people who can't live without progression towards carpal tunnel syndrome by wiggling around on their ground mount will finally be happy.

[nonameelf]

And I dont see why I should be punished because you dont like being on the ground in a fantasy game which is mostly all about ground combat and battles.

You have the 'choice' to go play Flight Simulator 2019 too if you dont like the current compromise.

What I want: People to be free to choose whether they want to use ground mounts or flying mounts.
What you want: To selfishly force everyone to use ground mounts.

Clearly what I want is far, far more reasonable.

[Muajin76]

I honestly don't get what the bitchin is about. You don't HAVE to fly. You don't HAVE to unlock pathfinding. Who is forcing you to use your flying mounts? Nobody. :P
I just don't understand all the complaining about a system in the game that gives you a choice.

[Charge me Doctor]

No, it's not. You COULD do everything without flying. The game is designed around that being possible.

You CHOOSE not to. It is 100% a choice you are making. Every single task that is currently relevant in WoW is doable without a flying mount.

When pathfinder is being arbitrarily gated, there IS no choice. If you wish to play the current expansion that you paid money for, you cannot fly. And the reason it's not possible is because a minority of angry voices are convinced that flying is the reason they're not having as much fun in WoW anymore and have apparently convinced Blizzard of the same, less to say the notion of it ALSO artificially making everything take longer.

You sound like eployers who try to justify crunch periods on projects. "They CHOOSE to work those extra hours".

[Shakana]

Or a crazy idea since they spend a shitload of time on creating zones, they want people to actually see it and not just fly from quest giver to objective and then back.

They gave this as a reason, i never seen them saying it's because of metrics

[Charge me Doctor]

I honestly don't get what the bitchin is about. You don't HAVE to fly. You don't HAVE to unlock pathfinding. Who is forcing you to use your flying mounts? Nobody. :P
I just don't understand all the complaining about a system in the game that gives you a choice.

The game doesn't give you a choice, because there is no choice, it's as much of a choice as playing 1 dagger rogue.

[nonameelf]

You would be right... if "path of least resistance" wasn't a thing, which it is.

Free will is also a thing. Which you apparently lack.

[Kaleredar]

I disagree. There is no further discussion possible as long as you keep ignoring "the path of least resistance" game design concept.

And I find no credence in the "it's intentionally worse because it builds character" approach to gameplay design.

[Tarba]

Add climbing to the game and gate flying until the next content patch for every new zone.

[Kaleredar]

You sound like eployers who try to justify crunch periods on projects. "They CHOOSE to work those extra hours".

Honestly, I really have no idea what you're trying to communicate here.

[Charge me Doctor]

Free will is also a thing. Which you apparently lack.

Now imagine joining a TF2 server, it happens that it's the only server left in the whole world, it has two tickboxes before you pick a character:
aimbot
wallhack
You are presented with a CHOICE of using those cheats right before you start, you have an OPTION to use them according to your logic.
But in reality, after you tick off those boxes you get loaded into a game where everyone uses those cheats, and it's not a fun game to play. Then when you try to talk about it and explain the situation you get jumped upon by people who keep parroting "IT'S AN OPTION LOL DON'T USE IT", deliberately or not, but completely missing the point

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, I really have no idea what you're trying to communicate here.

I know that you have no idea why flying is detrimental for the game, we've established that a long time ago

[Charge me Doctor]

Add climbing to the game and gate flying until the next content patch for every new zone.

Which would be a sensible resolution to a problem, you get this limited form of vertical movement to traverse locations, instead of ridiculous form of current flying

[Kaleredar]

N
I know that you have no idea why flying is detrimental for the game, we've established that a long time ago

Because it's not.

Literally no complaint about flying doesn't boil down to "I don't like it that other people can..."


To which I repeatedly answer... mind your own damn business.

[Argorwal]

Choosing to not fly when it's available happens as often as raids that disabled the 30% ICC buff in their raid.

After all, it was "optional"

[nonameelf]

Now imagine joining a TF2 server, it happens that it's the only server left in the whole world, it has two tickboxes before you pick a character:
aimbot
wallhack
You are presented with a CHOICE of using those cheats right before you start, you have an OPTION to use them according to your logic.
But in reality, after you tick off those boxes you get loaded into a game where everyone uses those cheats, and it's not a fun game to play. Then when you try to talk about it and explain the situation you get jumped upon by people who keep parroting "IT'S AN OPTION LOL DON'T USE IT", deliberately or not, but completely missing the point

Yeah, this is a retarded analogy.

[Doomchicken]

Honestly, I really have no idea what you're trying to communicate here.

He's saying its an illusion of choice. Basically.

[Exystredofar]

I mean, I definitely was the most active in expansions that had flying from the start. Once pathfinder was introduced, I saw it as more of a chore than interesting and interactive gameplay. Still, I've gone through all 3 pathfinder grinds so far, and I can honestly say that once I got flying, I pretty much lost interest in the expansion because pathfinder was the only real long term goal any of them had. That's not an issue caused by flying, that's an issue caused by a lack of compelling end game world content.

Let's be honest anyway, who actually stops to fight things that they pull while running? I just run right through them. You can say that flying causes people to interact less with the world, and that developers restricting it is an attempt to get people to engage more with it, but honestly, it just makes me skip everything I can until I can fly, and then I start to actually explore and interact more.

[Charge me Doctor]

Literally no complaint about flying doesn't boil down to "I don't like it that other people can..."

I mean, if you like to think about it this way - good for you, but you should consider moving away from those discussions if you are not willing to understand the issues with flying. Here's one thing to think about - developers release and design content around the way and speed of how players consume it, with rapid-flying available, developers have to make rewards smaller, thanks to how fast you can consume world-content due to being able to fly with 310% speed, so literally anyone who doesn't use 310% speed flying gets the same rewards for more effort and more time. Without 310% speed flying developers would have to tune their rewards up, because nobody in their right damn mind would want to spend time to travel to a WQ 15 minutes away from a closest flight point to get 20 gold.

Flying is not "just an option" in this game, it's a mechanic (and the most boring implementation of flying in videogames, even flappy bird has better flying that wow does) that you have to use if you want to get anything done in this game, denying that is just ridiculous;
Liking it or not is completely different thing - i don't like it and want it to be removed, you like it and want it to stay, but saying ridiculous things like "flying is optional and doesn't affect the game" is just stupid.