What Barack Obama gets exactly right about our toxic 'cancel' culture

[Phon]

It's a misleading question.

No, it's a simple question. Do you think they have a duty to a company that they're not working for or that they can breach a contract they haven't even signed?

Yes or no.

Things like holding racist beliefs speak to the character of the individual. If that character is at odds with the workplaces' ethics, that will be a fireable offense, no matter when it comes up.

Things like having murdered speak to the character of the individual. They still can't be fired for that if they've been employed.

In fact, to take the position, the employee would have lied (by omission, at least), to conceal that history, which is itself a fireable offense.

No, it's not a fireable offense to not tell your employer your whole life story. That's insane if you can do that in Canada.

Things like ethical standards of conduct are part of those contract terms. And ethical standards are about character, not exclusively actions while employed.

No contract I have ever signed has any terms at all about past conduct having to be up to their standards on what is acceptable speech or what is not acceptable speech.

[Clone]

This thread is nothing but an attempt to gotcha the left by using Obama.

[Phon]

This thread is nothing but an attempt to gotcha the left by using Obama.

Obama isn't even leftwing. He's a rightwinger.

[Cthulhu 2020]

It's funny how Obama is saying people should stop pretending to be woke while themselves being partisan without even acknowledging it, that we should stop taking shots at each other...

And the people "Agreeing" with Obama are AIMING this at the left as some kind of cheap pot shot to whine about how partisan and toxic the left is.

My irony meter is off the fucking charts.

[Clone]

Obama isn't even leftwing. He's a rightwinger.

Is that why the GOP blocked him on everything?

[Endus]

No, it's a simple question. Do you think they have a duty to a company that they're not working for or that they can breach a contract they haven't even signed?

Yes or no.

No. But they can be in breach of that contract when they sign it, by lying about their history. That's literally what I just said.

No, it's not a fireable offense to not tell your employer your whole life story. That's insane if you can do that in Canada.

It isn't "about your whole life story". It's "telling them about unethical conduct that would speak against hiring you".

Lying by omission is still a lie.

No contract I have ever signed has any terms at all about past conduct having to be up to their standards on what is acceptable speech or what is not acceptable speech.

I obviously can't speak to whatever contracts you've signed.

I can point to cases where hate speech are criminalized, in Norway. https://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news...f-hate-speech/

The guy in question wasn't just at risk of being fired, he was convicted of a crime and sent to prison. For saying racist things during an argument.

[jakeic]

This thread is the equivalent of playing Born in the USA at a GOP rally.

[Paranoid Android]

It's funny how Obama is saying people should stop pretending to be woke while themselves being partisan without even acknowledging it, that we should stop taking shots at each other...

And the people "Agreeing" with Obama are AIMING this at the left as some kind of cheap pot shot to whine about how partisan and toxic the left is.

My irony meter is off the fucking charts.

Yes. He is critiquing the people who don't want to join team Democrats. Yes a job at the very left who will sit out if say a centrist gets the nominee and they only agree with say 70% of their platform.

What Obama is not doing is shitting on the left. He is not calling them toxic, which yeah I saw the author and others in her thinking all of sudden Obama is a clone of Hannity or Rush just shitting on the left.

[Phon]

No. But they can be in breach of that contract when they sign it, by lying about their history. That's literally what I just said.



It isn't "about your whole life story". It's "telling them about unethical conduct that would speak against hiring you".

Lying by omission is still a lie.

At no point are you obliged to tell the employers about things that would speak against hiring you in Norway and not doing so is not a justified reason for dismissal. That's an insane take on workers rights. "Hey, I have to tell you to not hire me because of these reasons x y and z", like what the fuck?

The guy in question wasn't just at risk of being fired, he was convicted of a crime and sent to prison. For saying racist things during an argument.

If he had said he thinks Somalis should go back to Somalia in the safety of his home on facebook, it would still have been racist but not a criminal act.

So, it doesn't really make sense to say it's for saying racist things during an argument. That's kind of dishonest and ignores what is actually considered hate speech, it's not just saying racist things.

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Is that why the GOP blocked him on everything?

There's only right wing politicians in power in the US. Just because the democrats, and obama, aren't as right wing as the republicans doesn't make the democrats left wing.

[Xarkan]

For saying racist things during an argument.

I think google translate is close to the definition of what discriminatory or hateful is in that law

By discriminatory or hateful expression is meant to threaten or ridicule someone, or to promote hatred, persecution or deference to someone for their

race, homo sexuality, religion, reduced physical ability

Ridicule is probably more like degrade than ridicule

Not saying that makes you wrong but it is more than mere saying some racist things during an argument

Edit: btw in my translation race is shorthand for skincolor, ethnic origin etc. and similar for the others

[Phon]

I think google translate is close to the definition of what discriminatory or hateful is in that law

Ringeakt does not translate to deference, it's contempt. Deference is like the total opposite of contempt.

Ridicule in that translation should be replaced with insult.

[Theodarzna]

This is scary in its accuracy. I'd add that it's not they stop at breakdown of the individual. Think whatever you will of him, but Jordan Peterson's wife is suffering through cancer and he faces abuse all day from people, and they still show their true colors and dog pile him. The only reason they'll stop is because something new and shiny has dared to provoke their ire.

That is, of course, until their name is mentioned again and some stunning and brave Tweet Necromancer/Archaeologist drudges it up again.

What I think is most unanalyzed is the dynamics of power involved. Cancel mobs usually are a case of "punching down" in the SJ sense of the term. Aaron Calvin and the "Charity Guy" is a great profile of that aspect. By all accounts Calvin is in terms of education and social class far above the "Charity Guy", he is a holder of a BA in Journalism, can afford to get a relatively unprofitable degree and get a newspaper job as a reporter. Plus the anger from journalists over Aaron Calvin's own firing after they hand-waved cancel culture highlights one of the biggest problems right now - the class that often does launch Cancel Culture mobs reports on itself in a distinctly different way than other professions because they consider it self-defense. Not only is it often an elite class, but a self-protecting and self-referencing class. Aaron Calvin's target was some schmuck, and he did it with pure malice and because he could. There was no justification for doing it, he just had the power and liked flexing it.

[Rasulis]

This thread is the equivalent of playing Born in the USA at a GOP rally.

Just in case this is too subtle. Look up the lyrics to Born in the USA.

[DocSavageFan]

My attitude about them might be different if they were legitimately some kind of grassroots organic thing, but often the whipping up of a struggle session is done at the behest of or with the help of power cliques and elite types. A great example is Aaron Calvin the reporter who decided to, for no real reason other than he could do it, "cancel" that charity dude who raised money for Saint Jude; and then when it happened to him he acted indignant and was lovingly interviewed by other papers for it.

And I also find it hilarious that before being fired and "cancelled" himself...Calvin previously denied that the Cancel Culture even existed. I love irony.

[Xarkan]

Ringeakt does not translate to deference, it's contempt. Deference is like the total opposite of contempt.

Ridicule in that translation should be replaced with insult.

Missed deference somehow

I think degrade is closer than insult, insult is telling people their nose is crooked, forhåne is more

[Theodarzna]

And I also find it hilarious that before being fired and "cancelled" himself...Calvin previously denied that the Cancel Culture even existed. I love irony.

That whole affair and the media's actions in general kind of confirmed my stance that people with journalism degrees are the most morally repugnant wretched creates in the country right now.

But it reveals the core dynamics of "Cancel Culture" and the inherent psychology of its defenders. Sadistic, Malicious, Simpering and Craven, possessing a vast power lust and a bootlicking insect like nature. There can be no lower being on this Earth than them.

[Phon]

Missed deference somehow

I think degrade is closer than insult, insult is telling people their nose is crooked, forhåne is more

Anything that can be considered offensive can be an insult. Even then, humiliate would be better translation than degrade because degrade is to treat or regard someone with contempt, which would be covered by... Expressing contempt.

I'd still use insult though.

[Xarkan]

Anything that can be considered offensive can be an insult. Even then, humiliate would be better translation than degrade because degrade is to treat or regard someone with contempt, which would be covered by... Expressing contempt.

Regardless the point was it is not merely saying some racist remarks

[Phon]

Regardless the point was it is not merely saying some racist remarks

Yeah, it's very specific about what is considered hate speech and not. Like, the guy could just have said "Go home to Somalia" or "Go home to Africa" and it would still be racist but wouldn't be hate speech.

[JohnBrown1917]

Is that why the GOP blocked him on everything?

the far right blocking the centre-right is nothing new.