You are unfit to wear this crown!

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

Sad, I wanted him 100% dead, not as some asshole ally.

[Skylander]

Bolvar ain't even mad! She freed him from the torment of having to rule over the undead. Literally..... Why would Bolvar be mad?

[Kyphael]

Bolvar's still part of the ongoing story - he apparently takes over the Ebon Blade after losing the Helm and is involved with our sortie into the Shadowlands. Sylvanas defeated him and took the Helm out of the equation, she didn't kill him permanently.

Just saw the cinematic, I see. Very epic. Still... why make Bolvar Lich King way back when if nothing would come of it and they planned to retcon the Lich King's role? As Bolvar he was the veil that separated the living from the Shadowlands even though Kil'jaeden created him barely 20 years ago, and now that Sylvanas destroyed the Helm of Domination, the veil is shattered? They should have just made Bolvar leader of the Ebon Hold at the end of Wrath and it would have served the same purpose to the story.

[Nathasil]

...

The OP speculated that there was more meaning to it, though. Like something specific to the powers of the LK or Bolvar personally - and i don't think there is such a deeper meaning to this sentence. Sylvanas could have just as well said the exact same sentence to anybody else on Azeroth and it would have made exactly as much/little sense.

A sentence you can say to absolutely anybody with exactly the same meaning is quite the definition of empty, don't you agree?

[Kyphael]

Bolvar ain't even mad! She freed him from the torment of having to rule over the undead. Literally..... Why would Bolvar be mad?

Because even without the weight of the Helm of Domination to bear, he's still just a charred husk of his former self. He can't go back to his old life.

[Queen of Hamsters]

To me, that sentence represented the fact that he didn't do anything with his power that she would've considered worthwhile.

He wasn't making anything of himself other than sitting on that throne, wielding the power only to keep a status quo.

Just saw the cinematic, I see. Very epic. Still... why make Bolvar Lich King way back when if nothing would come of it and they planned to retcon the Lich King's role? As Bolvar he was the veil that separated the living from the Shadowlands even though Kil'jaeden created him barely 20 years ago, and now that Sylvanas destroyed the Helm of Domination, the veil is shattered? They should have just made Bolvar leader of the Ebon Hold at the end of Wrath and it would have served the same purpose to the story.

Who says they had those plans 10 years ago...?

They're telling a story. Could you imagine how many stories wouldn't be told if everyone just thought "why do a story arch when I can just end it here and now..."...?

[Aucald]

Just saw the cinematic, I see. Very epic. Still... why make Bolvar Lich King way back when if nothing would come of it and they planned to retcon the Lich King's role? As Bolvar he was the veil that separated the living from the Shadowlands even though Kil'jaeden created him barely 20 years ago, and now that Sylvanas destroyed the Helm of Domination, the veil is shattered? They should have just made Bolvar leader of the Ebon Hold at the end of Wrath and it would have served the same purpose to the story.

I watched the cinematic on the BlizzCon Virtual Ticket stream, myself.

Technically Bolvar was never really the Lich King - he was the Jailer of the Damned. Basically I think of him as the penny shoved into the circuit-breaker that is the Scourge, a stopgap measure stopping them from rampaging across Azeroth without any form of control. But unlike the Lich Kings before him Bolvar didn't have an eye toward amassing power or collecting souls - he was just sitting on the Frozen Throne, preventing the Scourge from acting for the most part, holding them in check without really advancing himself in any real sense.

[Kyphael]

Who says they had those plans 10 years ago...?

They're telling a story. Could you imagine how many stories wouldn't be told if everyone just thought "why do a story arch when I can just end it here and now..."...?

I get it, but they could have still told the story in that cinematic without forsaking established lore or having to retcon anything. The breaking of the Helm of Domination was just for dramatic effect. Prior to Kil'jaeden creating it, what was the veil then? The destruction of any doohickey setting the heavens apart could have fulfilled the same purpose without contradicting The Lich King's existence.

"There must always be... a Lich King," says Terenas before vanishing in an arctic wind that then quickly re-forms to Terenas. "Oh, of course... unless someone destroys the helmet... don't do that, some bad shit will happen that would have never happened before its existence, but would sort of happen now because... yeah."

[Mehrunes]

What if Sylvanas still after revenge, and isnt okay with Arthas being dead; so she come to shadowlands to beat his sorry ass with her chains.

While plot goes on with Muhzaela being big bad, we can find Kael and ask him to come into living world to be racial leader of High elfs (ho ho ho).

After death Kael comes clean off any fel addiction, as long as he willing to go through rehab.(so he once again can be #HIGH)

Eh, Sylvanas pitied what she saw Arthas turn into in the Shadowlands. And after her resurrection by the Val'kyr, reorganized her life's focus away from revenge of him. It's highly unlikely Arthas contributes in any way to her current plans.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I get it, but they could have still told the story in that cinematic without forsaking established lore or having to retcon anything. The breaking of the Helm of Domination was just for dramatic effect. Prior to Kil'jaeden creating it, what was the veil then? The destruction of any doohickey setting the heavens apart could have fulfilled the same purpose without contradicting The Lich King's existence.

"There must always be... a Lich King," says Terenas before vanishing in an arctic wind that then quickly re-forms to Terenas. "Oh, of course... unless someone destroys the helmet... don't do that, some bad shit will happen that would have never happened before its existence, but would sort of happen now because... yeah."

It wasn't a retcon nor a forsaking of the lore. The helmet was broken to break the veil.

There's a reason for why Sylvanas couldn't break that crown until now, at the end of BfA.

[Kyphael]

I watched the cinematic on the BlizzCon Virtual Ticket stream, myself.

Technically Bolvar was never really the Lich King - he was the Jailer of the Damned. Basically I think of him as the penny shoved into the circuit-breaker that is the Scourge, a stopgap measure stopping them from rampaging across Azeroth without any form of control. But unlike the Lich Kings before him Bolvar didn't have an eye toward amassing power or collecting souls - he was just sitting on the Frozen Throne, preventing the Scourge from acting for the most part, holding them in check without really advancing himself in any real sense.

That sounds like deflecting the point here. I mean, whoever puts the Helm of Domination on is The Lich King, they don't have to be chosen, do they? I know Ner'zhul chose Arthas, but Ner'zhul and Arthas were both gone when Bolvar chose to put it on. That means what, The Lich King's line was broken and there should have never been a Lich King thereafter because Kil'jaeden and Ner'zhul were there to formally appoint one? What if the Helm of Domination had simply been left unattended? Ok, yeah, Scourge runs rampant, but now what? The Helm is destroyed. Is the threat of the Scourge still prevalent? Why would it be? If not, then why didn't Tirion destroy it back then and just initiate the Shadowlands events we must deal with now?

I know this is all just from the minds of writers coming up with story for a new expansion, but the inconsistencies with The Lich King's retconned role, and ramifications of the destruction of the Helm of Damnation is bugging the hell out of me. It's like they wrote themselves into a corner they didn't have to for pomp and circumstance.

- - - Updated - - -

It wasn't a retcon nor a forsaking of the lore. The helmet was broken to break the veil.

There's a reason for why Sylvanas couldn't break that crown until now, at the end of BfA.

Because she wasn't strong enough, or had no knowledge of it. Ok, I accept that. But when Kil'jaeden created The Lich King, was he creating something that grew powerful beyond his control he had no knowledge of that The Jailer began to manipulate for his own means? Is that what I'm missing?

[Aucald]

That sounds like deflecting the point here. I mean, whoever puts the Helm of Domination on is The Lich King, they don't have to be chosen, do they? I know Ner'zhul chose Arthas, but Ner'zhul and Arthas were both gone when Bolvar chose to put it on. That means what, The Lich King's line was broken and there should have never been a Lich King thereafter because Kil'jaeden and Ner'zhul were there to formally appoint one? What if the Helm of Domination had simply been left unattended? Ok, yeah, Scourge runs rampant, but now what? The Helm is destroyed. Is the threat of the Scourge still prevalent? Why would it be? If not, then why didn't Tirion destroy it back then and just initiate the Shadowlands events we must deal with now?

I know this is all just from the minds of writers coming up with story for a new expansion, but the inconsistencies with The Lich King's retconned role, and ramifications of the destruction of the Helm of Damnation is bugging the hell out of me. It's like they wrote themselves into a corner they didn't have to for pomp and circumstance.

The Helm of Domination gives one control over the Scourge, but being the Lich King was all about using the Scourge to destroy the living (originally to pave the way for the coming of the Legion, and then as its own means to an end). Bolvar, however, had no interest in destroying the living for either Ner'zhul nor Arthas' purposes - he only wanted to keep the Scourge contained, held at bay. Jailer of the Damned != Lich King, IMO. I guess you could say whoever does the job of the Lich King is the Lich King - Bolvar wasn't doing that job, though; he was doing something entirely else until Sylvanas put the kibosh on it.

Given that we know that there are apparently Forges of Domination deep within the Shadowlands, I think it's pretty obvious that the Helm is going to be reforged and restored to the brow of someone worthy and/or willing to act the Jailer of the Damned once more. Whether that is Bolvar, or someone else, remains to be seen.

[Kyphael]

The Helm of Domination gives one control over the Scourge, but being the Lich King was all about using the Scourge to destroy the living (originally to pave the way for the coming of the Legion, and then as its own means to an end). Bolvar, however, had no interest in destroying the living for either Ner'zhul nor Arthas' purposes - he only wanted to keep the Scourge contained, held at bay. Jailer of the Damned != Lich King, IMO. I guess you could say whoever does the job of the Lich King is the Lich King - Bolvar wasn't doing that job, though; he was doing something entirely else until Sylvanas put the kibosh on it.

Given that we know that there are apparently Forges of Domination deep within the Shadowlands, I think it's pretty obvious that the Helm is going to be reforged and restored to the brow of someone worthy and/or willing to act the Jailer of the Damned once more. Whether that is Bolvar, or someone else, remains to be seen.

So if Forges of Domination exist in Shadowlands, how did Kil'jaeden who presumably never visited such places create one?

I know why The Lich King was created, which in itself to me was a bit of an unnecessary middle man. The Legion is supposed to do the job Kil'jaeden created The Scourge to do, and if The Scourge wiped out all life, the Legion would have never had to show up to begin with as The Void would have never had anything alive to corrupt, but that's neither here nor there.

Technically, doesn't The Lich King need Frostmourne to enact the "objectives" of the Lich King Arthas as Lich King established? Without Frostmourne, Bolvar had no choice but to be anything but a jailer since Frostmourne was so instrumental to The Lich King's power. Without Frostmourne, Arthas could have never raised Sindragosa. Obviously Bolvar wasn't as powerful as Arthas without Frostmourne.

[CreatureLives]

It was shitty to make us wait to see this character again for years and then plant seeds for him all throughout BFA only for Sylvanas to shit all over it in 5 seconds. It's just a weird way to reintroduce his character.

That said, I'm glad he's not wearing the helm anymore. Bolvar looks so much cooler without it and now he gets to have his own identity again. It would've been hard to not think of Arthas if he kept wearing that helm.

[Aucald]

So if Forges of Domination exist in Shadowlands, how did Kil'jaeden who presumably never visited such places create one?

I know why The Lich King was created, which in itself to me was a bit of an unnecessary middle man. The Legion is supposed to do the job Kil'jaeden created The Scourge to do, and if The Scourge wiped out all life, the Legion would have never had to show up to begin with as The Void would have never had anything alive to corrupt, but that's neither here nor there.

Technically, doesn't The Lich King need Frostmourne to enact the "objectives" of the Lich King Arthas as Lich King established? Without Frostmourne, Bolvar had no choice but to be anything but a jailer since Frostmourne was so instrumental to The Lich King's power. Without Frostmourne, Arthas could have never raised Sindragosa. Obviously Bolvar wasn't as powerful as Arthas without Frostmourne.

The Nathrezim created the Helm of Domination as well as Frostmourne, they are apparently the smiths of the Legion - Kil'jaeden commissioned them and presumably enhanced them further with his Fel magic. The Nathrezim appear to have some loose connection with the Shadowlands, most especially with Maldraxxus, although it's not known how or to what extent just yet.

Frostmourne was a lens for the power of the Lich King, that's true - but I imagine there are other such lens that exist, or could be made in the future. Frostmourne was itself a relatively recent creation insofar as the Warcraft universe is concerned, and much of Shadowlands's content seems to be set around using these Forges of Domination to create new Legendary armaments for the Champion(s). It's easy to imagine Bolvar or another worthy candidate venturing to Oribos to forge themselves a might new weapon in the vein of Frostmourne - a means to channel the power of the Lich King.

[Inci]

Can someone please explain to me how and where did the Helm of Domination acquire this power? I know that "control must be maintained and there must always be a Lich King" but it doesn't make sense to me that the destruction of this item leads to opening a path to the afterlife.

[Three Faced Goddess]

The Nathrezim created the Helm of Domination as well as Frostmourne, they are apparently the smiths of the Legion - Kil'jaeden commissioned them and presumably enhanced them further with his Fel magic. The Nathrezim appear to have some loose connection with the Shadowlands, most especially with Maldraxxus, although it's not known how or to what extent just yet.

Frostmourne was a lens for the power of the Lich King, that's true - but I imagine there are other such lens that exist, or could be made in the future. Frostmourne was itself a relatively recent creation insofar as the Warcraft universe is concerned, and much of Shadowlands's content seems to be set around using these Forges of Domination to create new Legendary armaments for the Champion(s). It's easy to imagine Bolvar or another worthy candidate venturing to Oribos to forge themselves a might new weapon in the vein of Frostmourne - a means to channel the power of the Lich King.

This is my only hope for the story. Your take has comforted me and I sorely needed it. I get attached to specific characters and when something happens to them it freakin' rips my heart out. Let there always be a Lich King.

[enigma77]

I wonder what happened to poor Ner'zhul when she tore the helmet apart lol.

[Minikin]

Sylvanas does not respect anybody but herself. In the end, death claimes all - and death is hers to master. She does not see ANYBODY fit to hold any kind of power except herself. The sentence was just as empty as the story since BFA launch.

There is no greater truth here connected to some of the old, "beloved" characters of the franchise...the best you can hope for at this point is that the cinematics showing Sylvanas steamrolling everybody else in the entire franchise will be better than the SL cinematic was...

The sad part about this current story is not that Sylvanas is such a bad character and her quest for absolute power over all existence is too unbelieveable - far from it. That part is good. The part that shits all over the show is that she somehow has the power to beat everybody and everything effortlessly without any kind of explanation where that power is coming from and what is the price for it that she will have to pay. It is OK to keep the audience in the dark about such things for a time - but we are in our >10th year now since Cataclysm turned Sylvanas into this "thing" that she is now....an we still have no clue what the rules are for her. She has no rules. She is basically God now.

All hail Sylvanas. The one to rule the franchise.

holy shit has it really been 10 years since cata..... my God.....

i agree with the analysis btw.

[CrawlFromThePit]

So when sylvanas removes the Helm of Domination from bolvars head she citat "You are unfit to wear this crown!

What does she mean with that. Is it a hint to her master "death" or who it is.

Or is it Arthas, which would be a speech of respect for Arthas? but she hates Arthas with all her gut. Atleast she did.

Well i have been a fan of Arthas since the wc3-wc3TFT days, really loved the story so i hope that he will return in Shadowlands.

Maybe kel Thuzad comes out of hiding when he sees the shadowlands opens and goes to free his master.

If it was well written she would have looked down at him, took the helm, slightly grunted as she forced to remove it and proceed to break it, again, without saying anything. Every single bit of dialogue you saw was made to explain to the audience what was happening as if people were too stupid to understand, it was not made for the characters and not made for the scene as it should have been.

This is why people say WoW has bad writing, they don't make the characters say what they should say in the situation they are in. Sometimes the best dialogue is not talking at all. She didn't come to explain her plan to Bolvar or have a chat while destroying the sky. The scene actually started well with narrative speaking instead of dialogue up to the point where she says "But no kind rules forever." If she was physically saying that to Bolvar it would have been crap, but it was just narration so it was fine. Then they start fighting without saying a word, again, absolutely perfect, everyone knows what's going on, the characters, the viewers, the scene is clear without dialogue. It doesn't become "unclear" after that, there's no reason to make see Sylvanas explain to Bolvar what she's doing, the dialogue after the fight is not credible, it suddenly turned into hollywood action movie one-liner fan service, AKA bad writing.

All they needed was a few glances, specific facial expressions, the actions, and the sky opens up, the end. After that anyway you have someone explaining the whole damn thing, basically REPEATING what was said in the dialogue but in other words, absolutely useless and redundant.

It's simply a writer's rookie mistake to feel like he needs to make characters talk, so he/she forces it on the scene when it's not necessary at all. There's a lot more to writing than dialogues, and dialogue is often the most screwed up aspect of writing.