Suffering never ends for night elfs. Now literally.

[Arrashi]

Not very original.

But very true. + think about it, at least its not a rape god like in 40k.

[LanToaster]

Blizzard stated that The Lich King would lose to Lei Shen in a 1on1, people need to stop acting like he's that omnipotent superbeing. And I'm pretty sure an ancient Death Entity that even predates the titans is much stronger than Lei Shen.

We arent Talking about Combat Power though. Oo This is not DragonBall, where everything you can do is tied to an Arbitrary PowerLevel, and someone with a Higher PowerLevel can do everything you can do Better.

The mere Fact that the Destruction of the LichKing helmet breaks the Veil directly to the Shadowlands, means that it has some form of Power over the Entire thing.
That doesnt determine any kind of Combat Power.

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Just because you can steal bread crumbs doesn't make you a real death entity, the lich king was a parasite, outside of the shadow lands leeching on the souls he could get his hands on, the shadowlands are being flooded by billions of souls each and every moment it is the afterlife for the entire universe, not just azeroth.

The thing is, is there an Actual Source on what the LichKing can/could´ve actually Accomplish in regards to the Shadowlands?
The same goes with Sylvanas. Everything we are talking about is based on Speculation about observed stuff.

[MrSaggins]

So selfish and destructive actions that only incidentally help the world are bad when Genn does it, but okay when Sylvanas does?

Naw it’d be bad ass if Genn did it too, but he’s more of a “Let’s just Wall ourselves in and do nothing about the problem.” kind of guy, traditionally.

[telygroar]

the jailer isn't sylvanas's master, they are working together. Eventually we'll discover their common goal.

we need better pay and holidays §§§

[TheRagebear]

Naw it’d be bad ass if Genn did it too, but he’s more of a “Let’s just Wall ourselves in and do nothing about the problem.” kind of guy, traditionally.

I'm referring to Stormheim, the case that upon mentioning gets everyone on these forums to robotically chant in unison "The ends do not justify the means, Genn was a bad boy." He did much less terrible things in pursuit of his own selfish and destructive desires and gets lambasted by Sylvanas fanboys but genocide and a war started only to kill is okay if she might incidentally free us from a worse fate if she's the one doing it?

[Feanoro]

I'm referring to Stormheim, the case that upon mentioning gets everyone on these forums to robotically chant in unison "The ends do not justify the means, Genn was a bad boy." He did much less terrible things in pursuit of his own selfish and destructive desires and gets lambasted by Sylvanas fanboys but genocide and a war started only to kill is okay if she might incidentally free us from a worse fate if she's the one doing it?

Yes, because she sells t-shirts.

[sam86]

Blizzard didn't think it through? Unless they don't consider something as basic to their death-related lore as necromancy as an escape from the Maw.

Even though the Maw preventing even necromancy on its denizens would make for actually quite a neat explanation as to why the pre-Bolvar Lich King didn't send his agents across the world to find the corpses of people like Gul'dan who'd make amazing Scourge members (with bonus revenge points from Ner'zhul in Gul'dan's case).

in case of Gul'dan the answer is easy, Gul'dan is shred to pieces and probably can't be even rebuilt to an undead anymore
but ur point is 100% valid and it shows how sh8t they are on their own lore, also part of 'no mortal went to shadowlands' alone should be enough to show how much they sh8t on lore, it is a major lore point that a moral priest went to shadowland to get the dagger from another mortal human priestess, the same dagger that played a key part in everything, but nah screw it let's sh8t on lore for the lols

[ls-]

Lmao even Ion looked like "Reallly? Wow, alright" *camera cuts to disgruntled Jaina cosplayer"

And then some dude shouted "For the Horde" It's hilarious to watch.

[Kokolums]

Lmao even Ion looked like "Reallly? Wow, alright" *camera cuts to disgruntled Jaina cosplayer"

LOL is there a clip of this?

[TheRagebear]

And then some dude shouted "For the Horde" It's hilarious to watch.

tfw Horde players are the same brainless bloodthirsty peons they're portrayed as ingame lol

[Infraction]

[Sangris]

LOL is there a clip of this?

https://youtu.be/RuLYjnlwPUs?t=1249

[formerShandalay]

So, I can't find the freaking post or panel that mentioned the souls from Teldrassil specifically, maybe I mis-remembered. @Aucald sorry.


But everyone being fed into the maw can't have started before BfA, or at least not a lot before that, if we're working with Cenarius in Ardenweald. He died in Legion and went there, so it seems to have been fine then. My guess is, Sylvanas started her more serious deal with the Jailer when her plan with Eyir failed. She knew about him before, it is hinted at in her short story (not the Jailer concept itself, but the greater forces that make the Lich King insignificant in comparison), but tried her prefered methods of getting along first and after the Eyir-thing she just went fuck it, I know there's bigger fish, I'll just take that deal then. Then maybe it took a while before the Maw could actually get all the souls before they go to the Arbiter (it had to grow a little first).
Had the problem with the maw existed since the Lich King existed, Sylvanas herself would not have gone to heaven upon her first death (when she died as an elf) and Kael'thas and Uther would also have gone to the maw. But since they didn't, the Maw seems to have been still functioning correctly at that point.

Her reasoning for feeding everyone to the maw and freeing the world to me seems a bit like what the original Medivh thought was his only agreement with Sargeras, that the entrapment of the world needs to be ended.

Since we go to the Shadowlands in part because we want to find all of this out and what Sylvanas's role in this is, I guess we'll find out more as soon as Beta begins. My guess is she will be a boss in the last raid, because she's not doing this to save anybody, but to set everyone free by literally ending the world ^^

[MrSaggins]

I'm referring to Stormheim, the case that upon mentioning gets everyone on these forums to robotically chant in unison "The ends do not justify the means, Genn was a bad boy." He did much less terrible things in pursuit of his own selfish and destructive desires and gets lambasted by Sylvanas fanboys but genocide and a war started only to kill is okay if she might incidentally free us from a worse fate if she's the one doing it?

I can’t see the “who” freeing all of reality from eternal torment as being deeply important. But if it comes to light that the subjugation of Eyir would have ultimately shortened the war against the Maw or made feeding it all of the Kaldorei and Worgen souls in Teldrassil unnecessary the he’s gonna look pretty silly. But if it turns out that Sylvanas gets toasted by some big bad in the Maw and somehow Genn is the one who saves the day then I don’t see how it’s any better or worse. Salvation is salvation no matter the tool used to achieve it.

[Super Dickmann]

Elune really gets shafted by proxy as a result. Since despite being the true goddess she's less effective at saving her people from being funnelled to super hell then a necromancer is to his ghoul.

[TheRagebear]

I can’t see the “who” freeing all of reality from eternal torment as being deeply important. But if it comes to light that the subjugation of Eyir would have ultimately shortened the war against the Maw or made feeding it all of the Kaldorei and Worgen souls in Teldrassil unnecessary the he’s gonna look pretty silly. But if it turns out that Sylvanas gets toasted by some big bad in the Maw and somehow Genn is the one who saves the day then I don’t see how it’s any better or worse. Salvation is salvation no matter the tool used to achieve it.

"You ruined my selfish plan to save myself (that incidentally would have saved others) so now I have to kill thousands-- hundreds of thousands even to continue my selfish plans (that incidentally might save others.) This is your fault somehow."

Elune really gets shafted by proxy as a result. Since despite being the true goddess she's less effective at saving her people from being funnelled to super hell then a necromancer is to his ghoul.

Nothing new there. Whoo. The joys of liking a race that the devs seem to despise for whatever reason. Why did they even make them?

[Feanoro]

I can’t see the “who” freeing all of reality from eternal torment as being deeply important. But if it comes to light that the subjugation of Eyir would have ultimately shortened the war against the Maw or made feeding it all of the Kaldorei and Worgen souls in Teldrassil unnecessary the he’s gonna look pretty silly. But if it turns out that Sylvanas gets toasted by some big bad in the Maw and somehow Genn is the one who saves the day then I don’t see how it’s any better or worse. Salvation is salvation no matter the tool used to achieve it.

You heard it here, folks, genocide can be a good thing.

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Elune really gets shafted by proxy as a result. Since despite being the true goddess she's less effective at saving her people from being funnelled to super hell then a necromancer is to his ghoul.

But there's absolutely NO hatred for NElves in the writing/dev teams. No sir. /gushingsarcasm

[wargone]

Wait a second.

If all the night elves went to the Maw.
And no one has ever escaped from the Maw.

Then how in the fuck is Delaryn a Dark Ranger right now?

SHE is one because FUCK you for asking Lore questions. that how! Lore what lore? that guy was Shot and burried 8 years ago

[MrSaggins]

Elune really gets shafted by proxy as a result. Since despite being the true goddess she's less effective at saving her people from being funnelled to super hell then a necromancer is to his ghoul.

Does “true goddess” necessarily mean having power over the province of death though? I’ve always seen Elune as a champion of life, and Delaryn Summermoon said Sylvanas made life her enemy in a war she’ll never win.

[Combatbutler]

You heard it here, folks, genocide can be a good thing.

Of course it can be, take for example the demon races of the legion, wiping them all out is a good thing, or the origination process on azeroth, if all life on the planet would have to die so that azeroth remains uncorrupted it would be a good thing. A corrupted azeroth is after all the worst case universe affecting scenario.

[Super Dickmann]

@Feanoro @TheRagebear

My favorite part of this is how the night elf stand ins in the Ardenweald are the ones who are the worst off as well. As the Forsaken proved, even night elf proximity is an incurable condition and results in eventual narrative death. These spirits were born to die.
@MrSaggins

The reveal I'm waiting on is less a lack of ability then a lack of willingness in service of a nebulous greater good. Tyrande's comments imply we were meant to take Sira's complaints at a lot more face value.