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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoser View Post
    Hahahahahahaha! You know I honestly think the story was meant to be different considering Metzen was around when they made the BFA cinematic, he was shocked by the events of the expansion. I bet midway during development Alex got the bright idea to go. "I bet I could tell the story of MOP better! The players will love it!"

    The writers literally said that as well. =_=
    We know for a fact that the cinematic was made by Metzen and was for an entirely different story, just with the same starting pieces. But with this retcon we now know for sure that we can throw her internal monologue in BTS in the bin as well and likely everything in Legion re: Helya as well in terms of having any connection with things going forward.

    We took the piss, but "She has so high IQ that she disguised her motive and knowledge to herself in her own mind" is now canon lore.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRagebear View Post
    She's such a good actor she fooled herself!
    She's not fooling herself, she's fooling you the reader. She's Deadpool.

  3. #23
    Titan Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Except it's not ideas this doesn't fit, it's previous information. Your analogy is utterly terrible.
    Mehrunes I know you’re a smart dude and not just bitching for the sake of it. So I’d like to know what exactly is the issue with what’s being called retcons because initially I thought so too, but after a deep dive a lot of what was considered the Warcraft afterlife was a complete mystery even within chronicles.

    All information previous to this expansion reveal remains plausible still. We knew when Vrykul died they were sent to the Halls of Valor or Helheim, which still remain as realms within the Shadowlands (of which there are many). We knew when us the players died we were sent to the spirit realm and spirit healers returned us to our bodies rather than send us to the Shadowlands (this is revealed in Chronicles as well). We knew the Lich King commanded the forces of the Undead and where this power comes from will likely be explored, as the Legion must have obtained it from somewhere and Revendreth looks suspiciously like a place a Nathrezim would be at home at - they’ve got to be connected somehow.

    I think we should just buckle up and enjoy the ride. It’s a creation mythology expansion rather than fending off some otherworldly threat. It’s going to be a cool expansion for lore nerds.

    The only question that still burns for me is if souls are sent to the Shadowlands when they die and converted into Anima - why are spirits like the Elders of Lunar Festival still able to walk on Azeroth without consequence if they’re only bodiless souls. And what are wisps?
    Last edited by Al Gorefiend; 2019-11-02 at 11:51 PM.

  4. #24
    I hope that the Jailer or the Arbiter are not just ''evil'' being. The underworld being described as a place where the dead ''live'' instead of just Hell is surprisingly creative compared to, shall we say, the more manichaean Diablo IV.

    Hadès or Saint Michael in Catholic ''tradition'' (tradition in quotation mark because it's not actually doctrine, just a common conception) are just doing their jobs, they are not ''evil''

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It would make sense if she realised at that point that her Stormwind plan wouldn't work.

    Let's not forget she wouldn't be able to just openly talk about killing everybody, their family, and their little dog Beppo.
    But even her internal monologues were written referencing that not being the plan, that's where the problem comes in.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    We know for a fact that the cinematic was made by Metzen and was for an entirely different story, just with the same starting pieces. But with this retcon we now know for sure that we can throw her internal monologue in BTS in the bin as well and likely everything in Legion re: Helya as well in terms of having any connection with things going forward.

    We took the piss, but "She has so high IQ that she disguised her motive and knowledge to herself in her own mind" is now canon lore.
    I honestly wonder why blizzard is so obsessed with writing huge "epic" moments instead of writing a consistent and fun story? It's not hard, other mmo's can do it. FFxIV is a clear example of it. What makes this sadder for me is the fact that I overall prefer wow in general but the writing along with the trashing of alliance and horde characters is pushing me away.

    I bet you Tyrande is next on the block.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Mehrunes I know you’re a smart dude and not just bitching for the sake of it. So I’d like to know what exactly is the issue with what’s being called retcons because initially I thought so too, but after a deep dive a lot of what was considered the Warcraft afterlife was a complete mystery even within chronicles.

    All information previous to this expansion reveal remains plausible still. We knew when Vrykul died they were sent to the Halls of Valor or Helheim, which still remain as realms within the Shadowlands (of which there are many). We knew when us the players died we were sent to the spirit realm and spirit healers returned us to our bodies rather than send us to the Shadowlands (this is revealed in Chronicles as well).
    do not speak of them anymore.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Mehrunes I know you’re a smart dude and not just bitching for the sake of it. So I’d like to know what exactly is the issue with what’s being called retcons because initially I thought so too, but after a deep dive a lot of what was considered the Warcraft afterlife was a complete mystery even within chronicles.
    The issue is the very specific change that is the topic of this thread? I.e. the "reveal" that Sylvanas was working on her master plan at the start of Legion and saved Varian in hopes of obtaining a position of power when her own internal monologues from Before the Storm showed her being surprised at becoming the Warchief and disliking Vol'jin's choice? The same book also showed that her original plan for war before Azerite showed her visions was raising people of Stormwind as Forsaken in typical Forsaken replenishment of forces fashion, when resurrecting people would prevent their souls from going to the Maw to power her up, which is her current MO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    The issue is the very specific change that is the topic of this thread? I.e. the "reveal" that Sylvanas was working on her master plan at the start of Legion and saved Varian in hopes of obtaining a position of power when her own internal monologues from Before the Storm showed her being surprised at becoming the Warchief and disliking Vol'jin's choice? The same book also showed that her original plan for war before Azerite showed her visions was raising people of Stormwind as Forsaken in typical Forsaken replenishment of forces fashion, when resurrecting people would prevent their souls from going to the Maw to power her up, which is her current MO.
    You're wrong, I remember the cutscene when she was made warchief she was cackling to herself instead of being shocked at being put in charge of the horde. She even stood there for ages when they removed Vo'jin's body.

    What's great is that even the main US blizzcon thread is picking up on this retcon.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoser View Post
    I can't take the writing team seriously anymore, first wow chronicles has been reduced to a piece of toilet paper and now this? The retcons!

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=296023....dge-o#comments

    Q: Did the jailer in The Maw see the Legion as a threat which is why Sylvanas worked with Varian?

    A: We'll find out more of her motivations in Shadowlands and that her relationship with the Jailer dates back a bit. Edge of Night story involves this relationship. Working with Varian was a long term strategy in order to get war chief - had to make allies but now we're seeing the fruition of that.

    HAHAHA

    Vo'jin died for this, Garrosh and Sylvanas got villian batted for the sake of the writers cruddy story. They turned the Horde into the alliance to tell this god damn story. Also now I'm worried for Tyrande, dear god.

    Oh and let's not forget that Slyvanas didn't even want to be warchief, man these writers just cook up stories defragmenting the original plan. Considering Metzen's reaction to BFA, this makes it all the more obvious.
    *retcon intensifies*

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by sarahtasher View Post
    I hope that the Jailer or the Arbiter are not just ''evil'' being. The underworld being described as a place where the dead ''live'' instead of just Hell is surprisingly creative compared to, shall we say, the more manichaean Diablo IV.

    Hadès or Saint Michael in Catholic ''tradition'' (tradition in quotation mark because it's not actually doctrine, just a common conception) are just doing their jobs, they are not ''evil''
    The Jailer was already described as the main villain of the expansion in the Q&A so don't get your hopes up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    What exactly are the writers on? Because it certainly isn't the good shit.
    Elune: "My sister needed Anima so I let my favoured people die. What is this 'Maw' you speak of?"
    Daily reminder that Steam has never had a monopoly on PC Gaming, don't mistake age and popularity for domination.
    Because people don't understand words: Forced and Necessity

  13. #33
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    That must be why she had no idea who appointed her in Before the Storm and still blamed Vol'jin's spirits and regretted Varian's death and had wanted to go in there, but in her own mind told herself she had to listen to her Warchief.

    What if she was trying to deceive herself?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Frinata View Post
    First step to accepting change and not being a fearmongering originalist; Stop considering things sacred and unchangeable.

    You'll find alot more enjoyment in life after this.
    What exactly is the link between expecting a basic modicum of internal consistency and "fearmongering"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  15. #35
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    The Jailer was already described as the main villain of the expansion in the Q&A so don't get your hopes up.
    The quote was that he is 'a central villain', which is not necessarily *the* villain. Not trying to nitpick you, just felt that's a fairly important distinction.
    Appreciate your time with friends and family while they're here. Don't wait until they're gone to tell them what they mean to you.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    The Jailer was already described as the main villain of the expansion in the Q&A so don't get your hopes up.
    I bet you Sylvanas is only working for him to place us in the prime position to punk him so she can usurp his power and become a goddess because according to blizzard Sylvanas is playing 6d chess, she is always plotting to end up on top!

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessvamp View Post
    What exactly are the writers on? Because it certainly isn't the good shit.
    Serial lobotomy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  18. #38
    She’s working with the jailer not for him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lansworthy
    Deathwing will come and go RAWR RAWR IM A DWAGON
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyCasual View Post
    There's no point in saying this, even if you slap them upside down and inside out with the truth, the tin foil hat brigade will continue to believe the opposite.

  19. #39
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoser View Post
    I bet you Sylvanas is only working for him to place us in the prime position to punk him so she can usurp his power and become a goddess because according to blizzard Sylvanas is playing 6d chess, she is always plotting to end up on top!
    I'm hoping Tyrande puts an arrow in her head first, personally.
    Appreciate your time with friends and family while they're here. Don't wait until they're gone to tell them what they mean to you.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessvamp View Post
    What exactly are the writers on? Because it certainly isn't the good shit.
    maybe hashish???

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