There is no retcon anymore.

[Kyphael]

Absolutely disgusting decision to throw Chronicle under the bus as a product. For shame.

I wonder how much prices on Ebay dropped for copies.

Isn't worth the paper it's printed on anymore.

[DemonHunter18]

I wonder how much prices on Ebay dropped for copies.

Isn't worth the paper it's printed on anymore.

man Nobbel actually defends this

[Mehrunes]

man Nobbel actually defends this

T&E will try for sure.

[Tabrotar]

expanding lore isnt a retcon. few ppl knew anything about the shadowlands because people dont come back from the dead.

the reasonable thing would be to assume what Mortals, who have no idea what the afterlife is, refer to the shadowlands as that ethereal state of azeroth where ghosts live.

and that souls pass from THERE to the REAL shadowlands

Its the difference between "gamer"(a person who plays games, like Halo or Solitaire) and "Gamer"(someone who sees their primary identity as a competative exploritive fun loving rage fueled nerd)

its the Shadowlands

its literally "the land of shadow"

any place thats dark could be called that

No it IS a fucking retcon as we had infos what the shadowland is before, only that they now retconne dthat to be a biased view of the titans who oh so practicall were the ones we get our infos from...

[Bigdoser]

man Nobbel actually defends this

I'm glad there are people in the comment chain that are telling it how it is.

[Gonder]

I don't remember them ever saying that was retconned. A huge part of the Shadowlands is still the veil that sits over virtually everything within the Material Plane. Though I'm not certain I yet fully understand the nature of the Shadowlands, I take it that when someone dies, their spirit crosses over into the Shadowlands "version" of the exact spot where they died and if there isn't some factor keeping them trapped there, they'll be taken to Oribos and judged by the Arbiter (except for recently as the Jailer has been essentially hijacking all the souls). The specific afterlives areas themselves, such as Bastion and Maldraxxus, I imagine, are simply hidden somewhere far deeper within the Shadowlands itself.

[Volardelis]

This game is also 15 years old. Name another game that's that old. Course shit is gonna be retconned. It's like Dr.Who at this point, changes on a dime.

It is expected that things from older games might be retconned, but when they start retconning things from Legion and BFA, even though they were developing shadowlands during those xpacs is just plain stupid.

They are even retconning Sylvanas' own reactions to her becoming warchief, making it so that she was playing infinity-D chess with herself.

[Tabrotar]

Eh, there’s stuff in my Geology book that predates the author(s) by billions of years, but it’s the best we’ve got so I’m accepting it.

Must be really funny to be such a Blizz apologist that you´re ok with all and everything they do...

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I bought chronicles.......

I´m glad i only bought the first one and hopefully you to.

[Dellis0991]

Must be really funny to be such a Blizz apologist that you´re ok with all and everything they do...

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I´m glad i only bought the first one and hopefully you to.

....I bought them all ......

[GreenJesus]

that's it folks.

there is no retcon in Warcraft franchise anymore.

I wanted to buy Chronicles one day but after seeing this



yep, they can change whatever they wish without screaming retcons.

very, very smart indeed...

LOOOOL chronicles isn't even canon anymore... that's an oof. "perspective of titans"

[Tabrotar]

....I bought them all ......

Ouch man sorry to hear that.

[Pandragon]

Is no one going to discuss, that in previously established lore even as recent as Cata, maybe MoP, the Shadowlands was similar to the Emerald Dream. Whereas the dream is Azeroth in a natural state, the Shadowlands was Azeroth but shrouded in shadows. Wraiths, and the dead wandered there. It was also where the Acherus Deathchargers came from.

We went into the dream in the raid. Show me where, other than an image of Thunderbluff, did that look like Azeroth? There are many places other than what we see in these locations. This part of the shadowlands is like a spirit way station.

[Mehrunes]

....I bought them all ......

Money well spent. If you were buying them as a physical reminder of why one should never trust Blizzard.

[Velerios]

We do know, its established lore, the Helm Armour and Sword were forged by the Nazerithm for the express purpose of trapping Nerzhuls soul and allowing control of the Scourge.

Nazerithm = Dreadlords eg The Burning fucking Legion created them, Blizz pretty much took a huge dump on the established lore just to fit this crazy story arc about their hoe Sylvannas.

We still don't know enough about the dreadlords and their Lore at all:

Look in the gameplay-trailer about the Shadowlands: the NPC at 1 minute in it looks a lot like a Nazerithm, so there actually might be a connection between the Shadowlands an them.

And you are right, they forged them, but do you know HOW? Maybe they had an artefact from the shadowlands that helped them forge it. Maybe there was an undercover-agent from there that gave them the formula to create the Helm of Domination. There are a LOt of unknown factors here.

[Hell-Nicø]

The lore don't matter anymore, there's only "the story".
That's why we are getting goofier and goofier allied races that got out of place the second a new extension rolls out, or why the landmasses have received more overhauls than Michael Jackson.

What a shame.

- Edit -
Not that I took a minute to think about it, that whole thing just highlight how much Blizz stopped giving a fuck about lore since Metzen left.
The whole point of the Chronicle was the write down a "definitive" lore story, something to solidify the many inconsistencies and details born from a story that was written in many different medium. It was a great idea.
But to then just retcon it just shows that they don't care about lore, or that they are too stupid to leave proper story hooks in their chronicle that could be exploited later.

The thing is, and they are pretty open about it, modern blizz design stuff like a stoner teenager, with the "Wooooo, that would be cool dude, let's do that" instead of a "What would be the next logical step of the story.

[Highelf]

You Do know that the cinamtics has TIME passing between each one right? And that a lot of things happen out of our view, right? What do you think she did after Genn destroyed the lantern at the end of the Stormheim quest line in Legion? You think she simply went back to Orgimmar and played Sudoku the whole time until she up and got mad she could not solve one puzzle and decided to invade Teldrassil for fun?

She must study fast. No one else has ever received powers that fast and shown them off to combat whatever danger she is in during any said cinematic. That is just garbage writing no matter the platform.

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My bet is that after the Valkyr ressed her during the shortstory between WotLK and Cata, she gained some power. Then, her bargain with Helya, is probably where the rest of her OP comes from. She learns a truth which sets her on the Teldrassil burning, war across Azeroth enabling path having made a deal with whoever is the boss of the Jailer (and probably Helya as well?) and got tons of powers of that. She has just been holding back since Stormheim, only showing some of her gained power under the ruse that she is getting stronger, but at an expected rate. Then when her cover was blown against Saurfang, she just went "fuck it" and went... Not all out, but stopped holding back. I am betting on Shadowlands explaining why Sylvannas suddenly got so strong, and that why lies in The Maw.



Just house Nerzhul? That helmet was also the thing that made the Lich King able to control ALL of the Scourge EVERYWHERE on Azeroth. That thing was pretty powerful on top of being his soul prison. So it holding enough power to break the barrier between Azeroth and Shadowlands is not much stranger than a book opening a portal to Outland. And I wouldn't be surprised if Sylvannas used some of her Shadowlands borrowed powers to help with the opening.

A book opening a portal to Outland?

[Aucald]

Considering that Aman'thul is basically the Titan in charge of Time itself and has presumably absolute knowledge of what has happened, is happening, and will happen I don't really see this as a statement of non-canonicity. It is still a chronology of things that happened as they occurred in time, across the physical universe covered by the "Chronicle" series. The only that could presumably be left out now would be events outside the physical universe the Titans were confined to, which the "Chronicle" series hasn't covered so far (e.g. no peering into the Void or the plans of the Void Lord, no illumination as to what Elune is or what she's doing, etc. etc.) Still an absolute chronicle of the physical universe's timeline as we experience it.

The "Chronicle" series as as much canon as any in-game event, short story, comic, or written novel is canon. This proclamation doesn't change much except perhaps a statement of authorial limitation on the books. That doesn't patently invalidate anything in them, and explains a few things left mysterious (such as why the "Chronicle" series doesn't touch on certain aspects of the WoW universe/multiverse).

[Dellis0991]

Money well spent. If you were buying them as a physical reminder of why one should never trust Blizzard.

My brother called me and laughed at me.

[InfiniteCharger]

Obviously this is a retcon but there have retcons on top of retcons since the beginning of WOW.

Anyway from the in game books on the lore of the Lich King as purely a demonic creation with no association with the shadowlands.
If anything it is tied to demonic energies and death magic, where necromancers and demons shackled and used souls as minions for their armies of death.
Technically the shadowlands originally were nothing more than the inverse of the living world, aka the shadowy world we see when we die as players.

Ner'zhul and his followers entered the Twisting Nether, the ethereal plane that connects all of the worlds scattered throughout the Great Dark Beyond. Unfortunately Kil'jaeden and his demonic minions were waiting for them. Kil'jaeden, who had sworn to take vengeance on Ner'zhul for his prideful defiance, slowly tore the old shaman's body apart, piece by piece. Kil'jaeden kept the shaman's spirit alive and intact, thus leaving Ner'zhul painfully aware of his body's gross dismemberment. Though Ner'zhul pleaded with the demon to release his spirit and grant him death, the demon grimly replied that the Blood Pact they had made long ago was still binding, and that Ner'zhul still had a purpose to serve.

The orcs' failure to conquer the world for the Burning Legion forced Kil'jaeden to create a new army to sow chaos throughout the kingdoms of the Azeroth. This new army could not be allowed to fall prey to the same petty rivalries and infighting that had plagued the Horde. It would have to be merciless and single-minded in its mission. This time, Kil'jaeden could not afford to fail.

Holding Ner'zhul's spirit helpless in stasis, Kil'jaeden gave him one last chance to serve the Legion or suffer eternal torment. Once again, Ner'zhul recklessly agreed to the demon's pact. Ner'zhul's spirit was placed within a specially crafted block of diamond-hard ice gathered from the far reaches of the Twisting Nether. Encased within the frozen cask, Ner'zhul felt his consciousness expand ten thousand-fold. Warped by the demon's chaotic powers, Ner'zhul became a spectral being of unfathomable power. At that moment, the orc known as Ner'zhul was shattered forever, and the Lich King was born.

Ner'zhul's loyal death knights and Shadowmoon followers were also transformed by the demon's chaotic energies. The wicked spellcasters were ripped apart and remade as skeletal liches. The demons had ensured that even in death, Ner'zhul's followers would serve him unquestioningly.

When the time was right, Kil'jaeden explained the mission for which he had created the Lich King. Ner'zhul was to spread a plague of death and terror across Azeroth that would snuff out human civilization forever. All those who died from the dreaded plague would arise as the undead, and their spirits would be bound to Ner'zhul's iron will forever. Kil'jaeden promised that if Ner'zhul accomplished his dark mission of scouring humanity from the world, he would be freed from his curse and granted a new, healthy body to inhabit.

Though Ner'zhul was agreeable and seemingly anxious to play his part, Kil'jaeden remained skeptical of his pawn's loyalties. Keeping the Lich King bodiless and trapped within the crystal cask assured his good conduct for the short term, but the demon knew that he would need to keep a watchful eye on him. To this end, Kil'jaeden called upon his elite demon guard, the vampiric dreadlords, to police Ner'zhul and ensure that he accomplished his dread task. Tichondrius, the most powerful and cunning of the dreadlords, warmed to the challenge; he was fascinated by the plague's severity and the Lich King's unbridled potential for genocide.

[Kyrian Warrior]

that's it folks.

there is no retcon in Warcraft franchise anymore.

I wanted to buy Chronicles one day but after seeing this



yep, they can change whatever they wish without screaming retcons.

very, very smart indeed...

I have stopped taking WoW lore seriously with WoD,