Sylvanas has been working for the jailor since edge of night.

[cparle87]

Never specified. Bloodstones have been used as assistance in summoning demons on at least two different occasions though and that's not something Old God memorabilia is typically known for.

Well, bloodstones are a gem which comes from Wrath saronite deposits, so there's that.

And there's lots of speculation in https://wow.gamepedia.com/Bloodstone_Artifacts, particularly in https://wow.gamepedia.com/Belamoore's_Research_Journal.

[Seradi]

I don’t understand how/why they’re retconning a novel that was recently written explicitly to set up this storyline. Like we just had a novel that showed us her thoughts and this new “development” contradicts a lot of it lol.

[Gigantique]

The amount of facepalming I performed when I read that is immense, because I also thought about her INTERNAL (as in inside her own mind, what she is thinking, to herself, for her alone) monologue in BtS.

Unless she is so 10D chess by this point she has breached the 4th wall and is thinking lies to throw players off her trail while reading her thoughts in books?

Cracked it bois.

[tripleh]

With all the retcons that are happening, ask yourself if its still worth buying wow books anymore. They take your money then change everything to there liking once they have your funds.$$$$ Immersion is dead.

[Bigdoser]

With all the retcons that are happening, ask yourself if its still worth buying wow books anymore. They take your money then change everything to there liking once they have your funds.$$$$ Immersion is dead.

As someone said in another thread it's now clearly evident that blizzard doesn't care about their setting or world anymore considering how they treated the chronicles and how they are handling the retcons to tell their "epic" new story.

[ErrandRunner]

I agree, it's difficult to take the writing team seriously after all these retcons.

[Mehrunes]

Killing them served the same end, and sent a message to the other Forsaken that the cost of rebellion was final death. Sylvanas might not have had the power to do so back in "Before the Storm," either; but come the end-game if her and the Jailer's schemes all came to fruition she likely would have that kind of power over Death and Undeath.

And un-resurrecting them wouldn't send that exact message? Also, because you couldn't have been bothered to check the context of what was being discussed before you jumped on the "obviously this can't be a retcon because of Blizzard's stellar track record with those" bandwagon, her end goal at the start of Before the Storm (when "she didn't have that power yet") was to resurrect the population of Stormwind as the Forsaken. Which, apparently, would be then followed by her un-resurrecting them immediately afterwards with her newfound power, making the resurrection an exercise in futility. A power that she "likely would have at that point" as per the likelihood you just made up.

Why would her goals change just because she became Warchief? Why would she stop doing something just because she got more power? Bolvar doesn't have to "fart in her direction" for her to be working towards a confrontation with him. Azerite, and the power it holds, clearly would change everything. Why wouldn't she go after it? Why do you think the story has to make a fool to ignore it for a singular goal? Wouldn't ignore it risk all her plans if her enemies got a hold of a power that could cause her to be stopped?

Given how she stated she wouldn't find the war with Alliance necessary had Varian lived, it's rather obvious that particular plan came to be only after that. I.e. after she became Warchief. Which is *gasp* kinda why we only heard about it long after her becoming the Warchief (with her goal in between being immortality via Eyir). Which is why (in conjunction with the bit about Varian) you talking about her expansionism before her becoming the Warchief in reply to me talking about this specific plan showcases that you don't really know what you're talking about. And for the life of me, I can't recall saying that she shouldn't have went after Azerite.

Seriously. You are so busy insulting that you are not even making coherent points anymore.

The layered nature of irony in this remark is just sublime.

[rhorle]

But Edge of Night did describe what she saw, whom she saw, whom she heard and what the hell itself was. Actually knowing what the previous story in question is would make more sense when making a claim that a new piece of information doesn't contradict it.

"There were others in the darkness. Things she didn't recognize, because nothing so terrible could exist in the world of the living. Claws tore at her, but she had no mouth with which to scream. Eyes looked at her, but she couldn't look back."

"What he saw was a great black void, an infinite darkness. There was fear in those eyes, but also something else. Something that terrified even the great warchief. His wolf began to edge away instinctively."

"The army of undead that surrounded and protected the Dark Lady was still hers, body and soul. But they were no longer arrows in her quiver, not anymore. They were a bulwark against the infinite. "

Oh. So we know who the others were? We know what the things she didn't recognize were? Gotcha. You know the actual story that all the rest of us do not. The story also answers why she continued raising the forsaken. They were her army against whatever. Not just tools to use but the power she had against whatever would stop her. But sure I don't know the story in question. You do even though you ignore the parts that don't mesh with what you are saying.

The story also says she doesn't know if she was there a lifetime or a moment. We don't know every second of her time spent in there. We don't know what tormented her. What was said. Or what seed was planted in her and allowed to grow when she was returned. It could be the very Val'kyr that helped leader her down the path of the Jailer. We don't know the entire story of the Jailer and sylvanas yet.

She didn't want to be eager? What? If one doesn't want to be eager all they have to do is, you know, not being eager. No one forced her to be eager. And she obviously wasn't. So do you by any chance mean that she didn't want to appear eager to the Horde to maintain appearances? In which case, we're talking about her own internal monologues?

Being eager and appearing eager are the same. You are splitting hairs waiting for your specific keyword again. If you are playing a role, hiding your true intentions, then you can certainly have an internal monologue with yourself about how to keep your plans on track with out letting others find out what is really going on. You know a dilemma. It is also clear, as I said before, that being the warchief has a lot more people watching her and ways that she can be removed from power. It is harder to balance the honor of the horde as warchief then it is as a simple leader of one faction.

[Armakus]

I think it's an excellent story telling device *shrug*. Stop being afraid of change.

[Daevelian]

Funny, i always took her internal monologue in BtS as her insane rambling as she tries to rationalise everything to paint herself as a hero. Ya know, kinda like Suzie Boreton in Dirk Gently.

Not blizzard's fault people interpret things incorrectly in an effort to fit their own agenda.

[mrsohta]

I mean, it's been clear for a long time that they just go with whatever idea sounds cool and adjust stuff around it. It will only upset you if you take it too serious. I personally stopped thinking about all of it when they added void lords and removed the mystery around old gods

[Bigdoser]

I think it's an excellent story telling device *shrug*. Stop being afraid of change.

Excellent story device! Stop being afraid of change!

In my eyes this is showing that blizzard doesn't give a flying monkey about their lore and characters, it's the reason why they keep being trashed. Even the normal forums are picking up on this nonsense.

[Goldielocks]

I think it's an excellent story telling device *shrug*. Stop being afraid of change.

Not liking sloppy retcons is being afraid of change, huh

[Mehrunes]

Funny, i always took her internal monologue in BtS as her insane rambling as she tries to rationalise everything to paint herself as a hero. Ya know, kinda like Suzie Boreton in Dirk Gently.

Not blizzard's fault people interpret things incorrectly in an effort to fit their own agenda.

There's nothing insane, rambling or even heroic in those internal monologues.

[GreenJesus]

Funny, i always took her internal monologue in BtS as her insane rambling as she tries to rationalise everything to paint herself as a hero. Ya know, kinda like Suzie Boreton in Dirk Gently.

Not blizzard's fault people interpret things incorrectly in an effort to fit their own agenda.

"Sylvanas is just bipolar!" - Man that explains everything... gg blizzard great story

[Aucald]

And un-resurrecting them wouldn't send that exact message? Also, because you couldn't have been bothered to check the context of what was being discussed before you jumped on the "obviously this can't be a retcon because of Blizzard's stellar track record with those" bandwagon, her end goal at the start of Before the Storm (when "she didn't have that power yet") was to resurrect the population of Stormwind as the Forsaken. Which, apparently, would be then followed by her un-resurrecting them immediately afterwards with her newfound power, making the resurrection an exercise in futility. A power that she "likely would have at that point" as per the likelihood you just made up.

As I said, she may not have had this power at that time - I'm referring to Sylvanas in the fullness of her power if her scheming comes to fruition, not beforehand. Sylvanas also doesn't call her plan for Stormwind in "Before the Storm" her "end goal" in any sense - she simply refers to it as something she and Nathanos "had long desired." And it likely was, since it would increase her Forsaken and revenge themselves on Stormwind in one fell swoop. I think you're projecting more than a little here, personally. Increasing her Forsaken in the present tense makes sense to me, as she would need standing armies to feed the Jailer and/or the Maw with souls, increasing both its power and hers in the process. Then, at the end, when Azeroth is emptied of souls not already turned into Forsaken, either she or the Jailer can unmake the Forsaken and send them tumbling into the Maw as well as an after-dinner mint of sorts.

At no point have I claimed here, or ever claimed, that Blizzard hasn't rung in a number of retcons - I'm just claiming this specific thing needn't be one, and offering a concise justification as to why that fits all available facts.

[Whitedragon]

If Sylvanas was capable of just un-resurrecting the Forsaken at will (a power that we haven't seen even in the Lich King's power set), why did she ever bother with killing the Forsaken that betrayed her?

While we have never seen Sylvanas do this, Arthas was indeed able to cull undead at will to bolster his own strength.

[Hctaz]

As someone said in another thread it's now clearly evident that blizzard doesn't care about their setting or world anymore considering how they treated the chronicles and how they are handling the retcons to tell their "epic" new story.

Was it me? Cuz I said that earlier xD reaaaally dumb tbh.

They Chronicle thing doesn't even make sense. How do you write a book from the perspective of beings that didn't exist at the time of some of the writings??? "The Titans" supposedly know about the clash between Light and the Void that created the entire universe including themselves? And they can detail that process? It doesn't make any sense when you consider this is somehow supposed to be the definitive version of the story.

[TigTone]

Actually, Sylvanas has been working with anima since vanilla. There is that horde questline in Hillsbrad where undead are jailed after fleeing UC. They had brought chunks of anima with them that were being intensely studied by the Royal Apothecary Society, fearing that some terrible plan was being hatched long-term regarding the material. They even explained what anima was: anima is the four elemental forces bound together PLUS blood. The Shadowlands exac is the culmination of that vanilla questline.

Woah, nice find.

[Whitedragon]

Was it me? Cuz I said that earlier xD reaaaally dumb tbh.

They Chronicle thing doesn't even make sense. How do you write a book from the perspective of beings that didn't exist at the time of some of the writings??? "The Titans" supposedly know about the clash between Light and the Void that created the entire universe including themselves? And they can detail that process? It doesn't make any sense when you consider this is somehow supposed to be the definitive version of the story.

At this point I'm betting they just back peddle it to just being a mistake said on stage at some point. It's pritty easy to just chalk it up to "lol I miss spoke", and it's not like we don't have plenty of examples of them doing it before.