There is no retcon anymore.

[Al Gorefiend]

the biggest problem for me was the line 'no mortal went to shadowlands'
that isn't retcon lvl, that is sh8tting on lore for sake of just sh8tting
the shadow priest artifact dagger play a key role in all current events, to get it the playable priest went to get a human female priestess from the shadowlands, that's at least 2 mortal that successfully returned from shadowlands confirmed, yet they didn't even bother to check how Sylvanas reached that mary sue godlike lvl, they just u know what let's make shadowlands never saw by mortals for the lols

Blizz used to care a LOT about lore, to degree when Chris made the draenei mistake he apologized to us and assured that TBC is far in development he can't retract that mistake and promise to take care to not repeat it
Blizz used to be the guy in first panel in that comic, now they are the 2nd guy, anything just to sell sh8t
I regret i cared so much about lore, honestly this probably killed my interest in wow lore, I already read Before the storm way late in BFA cycle because i didn't care much about it, next exp doubt i'll even care about a book if they release one


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yes
honestly and seriously yes, i really thought so, that's why i ordered it in first place, they said it was definite final answer, and i was so glad they finally will clean their closet

The whole “no mortal has ever entered the Shadowlands bit” was indeed dire. They’re really shooting themselves in the foot here because they’ll have to either acknowledge Halls of Valor, Helheim and Thros as not parts of the Shadowlands or disregard that sentence.

Since it’s BlizzCon and nothing’s finalized at BlizzCon, not even names of places and things (Think MoP for example with all the name changing of things) they aren’t retconning if they just scrap an early sentence that doesn’t reflect the actual game at all.

[Aucald]

My working theory is that the Helm's connection to the Shadowland is a product of its function vis-a-vis the Lich King and not a built-in property or trait of its design by the Legion smiths who originally created it. Obviously the Helm was imbued with Necromantic magic (of which the Nathrezim have always been marquee practitioners), but the strong connection to Azeroth's Shadowlands came later, part and parcel of its use on Azeroth, it's connection to the Lich King, and the vast amount of soul/anima power it has probably soaked up through its use by three consecutive Lich King entities (Ner'zhul, Arthas, and Bolvar).

In order to do what it did, to be the focal point of the Scourge's hive-mind, it had to be steeped in Necromantic power. The process of serving as that focal point for so long, and growing so powerful under the Arthas Lich King incarnation, connected it securely and indelibly to the Shadowlands as a matter of course. When it was destroyed it released its stored power in a particularly violent and directed fashion, shattering the veil between the worlds of the living and the dead in the process.

[rhorle]

Anyway from the ingame books on the lore of the Lich King as purely a demonic creation with no association with the shadowlands.
If anything it is tied to demonic energies and death magic, where necromancers and demons shackled and used souls as minions for their armies of death.

Death. That is the connection to the Shadowlands. Do you know where Death resides on the cosmic forces of Warcraft? Also the chronicles state that Ner'zhul was passed through death and made a spectral entity. Chronicles page 17.

"Ner'zhul, his sanity cracking, finally agreed. Kil'jaeden passed the orc's spirit through death and revived him as a spectral entity."

[Hctaz]

Yeah, consistency is such an idiotic concept.

Right? I think this is one of the final nails in the coffins that show Blizzard isn't interested in creating a living world anymore. They're just going expansion to expansion doing things to get people to resub because it's cool. They don't expect any form of consistency anymore it seems.
An MMO needs to have consistent story or it isn't a world anymore.

[Mehrunes]

The whole “no mortal has ever entered the Shadowlands bit” was indeed dire. They’re really shooting themselves in the foot here because they’ll have to either acknowledge Halls of Valor, Helheim and Thros as not parts of the Shadowlands or disregard that sentence.

Kinda too late with Thros. Besides, there are quests where we entered the actual Shadowlands proper.

Right? I think this is one of the final nails in the coffins that show Blizzard isn't interested in creating a living world anymore. They're just going expansion to expansion doing things to get people to resub because it's cool. They don't expect any form of consistency anymore it seems.
An MMO needs to have consistent story or it isn't a world anymore.

Expansion to expansion? That's way too generous. Even patch to patch is stretching it.

[Aucald]

I would imagine that the "Shadowlands" we've experienced (e.g. Thros, Helheim, wherever the Spirit Healers are, etc.) aren't the actual Shadowlands proper - or else the Shadowlands have conceptual layers of which we've only seen the smallest pieces of. So the oft-repeated "no mortal has ever entered the Shadowlands bit" isn't necessarily this huge retcon, it just means no living mortal has yet ventured into the Shadowlands proper, the deeper Shadowlands depicted in the newest expansion (which is true considering they're completely never-before-seen locales). Either what the Shadowlands actually are has been slightly retconned, or given that the Shadowlands as a concept has never been really explored all that much, there's a different between what we call "the Shadowlands" and the true Shadowlands.

Really sorry for anyone playing a drinking game where you take a shot every time you read the word "Shadowlands."

[Al Gorefiend]

Kinda too late with Thros. Besides, there are quests where we entered the actual Shadowlands proper.




Expansion to expansion? That's way too generous. Even patch to patch is stretching it.

I feel entering the Shadowlands in a quest that just puts a skybox filter on our screens with a buff isn’t really entering it the same way Blizzard is intending. They’ve for sure got to acknowledge just wtf the “place” is that spirits walk in, where we go during a corpse run etc. that they’ve historically referred to as Shadowlands. Iirc we’ve had quests where we entered the Emerald Dream and it was just a green filter on our screen too.. yet we entered it in a raid proper later down the line.

[Ianus]

I feel entering the Shadowlands in a quest that just puts a skybox filter on our screens with a buff isn’t really entering it the same way Blizzard is intending. They’ve for sure got to acknowledge just wtf the “place” is that spirits walk in, where we go during a corpse run etc. that they’ve historically referred to as Shadowlands. Iirc we’ve had quests where we entered the Emerald Dream and it was just a green filter on our screen too.. yet we entered it in a raid proper later down the line.

Dev said when we die on azeroth spirit healer decides if we are ready (aka loved ones, purpose or we wanna respawn) or are we tethered to some other cosmic force if thats the case then it cant transfer us

[Firefall]

Kinda too late with Thros. Besides, there are quests where we entered the actual Shadowlands proper.

Wow you've already been to all the new quest zones, the Maw, and the giant city?

[Ihsan997]

the biggest problem for me was the line 'no mortal went to shadowlands'
that isn't retcon lvl, that is sh8tting on lore for sake of just sh8tting
the shadow priest artifact dagger play a key role in all current events, to get it the playable priest went to get a human female priestess from the shadowlands, that's at least 2 mortal that successfully returned from shadowlands confirmed, yet they didn't even bother to check how Sylvanas reached that mary sue godlike lvl, they just u know what let's make shadowlands never saw by mortals for the lols

Blizz used to care a LOT about lore, to degree when Chris made the draenei mistake he apologized to us and assured that TBC is far in development he can't retract that mistake and promise to take care to not repeat it
Blizz used to be the guy in first panel in that comic, now they are the 2nd guy, anything just to sell sh8t
I regret i cared so much about lore, honestly this probably killed my interest in wow lore, I already read Before the storm way late in BFA cycle because i didn't care much about it, next exp doubt i'll even care about a book if they release one


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yes
honestly and seriously yes, i really thought so, that's why i ordered it in first place, they said it was definite final answer, and i was so glad they finally will clean their closet

The truth in this comic is painful.

[InfiniteCharger]

Death. That is the connection to the Shadowlands. Do you know where Death resides on the cosmic forces of Warcraft? Also the chronicles state that Ner'zhul was passed through death and made a spectral entity. Chronicles page 17.

"Ner'zhul, his sanity cracking, finally agreed. Kil'jaeden passed the orc's spirit through death and revived him as a spectral entity."

Death under to the power of demons does not equate to the shadowlands as seen at Blizzcon 2019.
Nowhere does that passage about Nerzhul being turned to a Lich say anything about him going to the shadowlands.
The implication is that his soul was kept out of the shadowlands and tied to the word of the living because of the demons power over his soul. At best the implication here is that the shadowlands was a "shadow" of the world of the living where souls/spirits resided.
So again there are retcons on top of retcons from Warcraft III to WOTLK to now.
This isn't really anything new:

WC3: Sargeras's Nathrezim were simply demons who did demonic things like use undead creatures via death magic (no shadowlands involved at all)
WOW1: Dead players go to the shadowlands and see "spirit healers" (angelic beings)
TBC: Vyrkul are created by the Lich King specifically with necromantic powers to raise the dead (demonic death magic/no Helya no Odyn)
TBC: Forge of souls, Maw of souls, manipulation of souls all associated with death magic and demonic powers
LEGION: Vyrkrul are a class of being created by Odyn at the Halls of Valor with Helya going rogue (retcon of WOTLK)
LEGION: Nathrezim are different races of Aliens from various planets, not simply demons from the Twisted Nether.
LEGION: Halls of Valor are *not* in the shadowlands

In the clouds high above Stormheim, the titanic keeper Odyn has called the greatest vrykul warriors of Azeroth to be his Valarjar. Amidst feasting halls and hunting grounds, these ascended vrykul test themselves and prepare for the great war that is to come. Adventurers must pass through these halls and prove their worth if they hope to stand before Odyn and claim the Aegis of Aggramar.

LEGION: Maw of Souls is a dungeon *not* in the shadowlands

While the greatest vrykul warriors are spirited away to the Halls of Valor to glory eternal, shiny and gold, the cursed and the damned find themselves on the shores of the Maw of Souls. Amidst fog and mist, they await the Naglfar, a fearsome ship formed from sinew and bone, which comes to deliver these poor souls to Helheim, and the clutches of Helya.

SHADOWLANDS: Retcon of all the above (Nathrezim aren't demons/aliens, Halls of Valor in shadowlands, new Maw of Souls )
Shadowlands no longer simply a "shadow" of the living realm but a separate realm altogether with new races even....

[sam86]

Wow you've already been to all the new quest zones, the Maw, and the giant city?

no but every single shadow priest went there to get the dagger + that human female priestess who started the entire shadow priest cult in first place

[DemonHunter18]

....I bought them all ......

oh my poor guy

[shuubu]

Personally I'm just gonna pretend the whole opening cinematic was from titan perspective and didn't really happen.

[DemonHunter18]

Personally I'm just gonna pretend the whole opening cinematic was from titan perspective and didn't really happen.

LoL that's such a good unintentional advice to everyone

everything that happened since Vanilla is just Titans perspective.

prepare for the real deal folks!!!

WoW 2 is coming but this time from omnipresent perspective!!!

[Gaidax]

I bought all the Chronicles and read them and it was fun reading.

I do not live in some fantasy world that Chronicle will be some Immutable Holy Warcraft Bible - in the end lore will be expanded and even changed at some point and it's fine. Heck Chronicle itself has a lot of void spots where stuff got little more than "yeah there is that thing" presentation, clearly leaving that for future, something like Elune and Void Lords are all as obscure as ever and yes, Shadowlands too. Heck we barely know anything about "Light" too and what we have seen it doing in Legion and BfA totally got us blindsided.

I think this is fine and I am not sure what people really expected - the story goes forward and lore will evolve and inevitably some stuff will have to be rewritten because the thing is so huge it is impossible to not step on its own toes at some point.

[Odinfrost]

A book opening a portal to Outland?

Whoops, I was kinda wrong. It was the residue energy FROM that book that was resposible for the portal.

[DemonHunter18]

I'm surprised there are some many people who missed the point of this thread.

[Tabrotar]

I bought all the Chronicles and read them and it was fun reading.

I do not live in some fantasy world that Chronicle will be some Immutable Holy Warcraft Bible - in the end lore will be expanded and even changed at some point and it's fine. Heck Chronicle itself has a lot of void spots where stuff got little more than "yeah there is that thing" presentation, clearly leaving that for future, something like Elune and Void Lords are all as obscure as ever and yes, Shadowlands too. Heck we barely know anything about "Light" too and what we have seen it doing in Legion and BfA totally got us blindsided.

I think this is fine and I am not sure what people really expected - the story goes forward and lore will evolve and inevitably some stuff will have to be rewritten because the thing is so huge it is impossible to not step on its own toes at some point.

Maybe just maybe that a series of books which was labeled as the "ultimate wow lore compendium" would be that but alas we see how that was going and that YOU would defend this isn´t really suprising giving your attitude in the warlock forum...

[Stormdash]

Maybe the creation of the Lich King is what started the imbalance of the Shadowlands to begin with.

This is the best take - it's not like KJ would give a shit, not with his boss' primary agenda being to Seth Rollins all of existence to ruin it for the void.