Lich King losing was bullshit

[rated]

Too many wow babies on here. What made Arthas strong was not the crown, it was the sword. The crown just completed the form. He defeated Illidan without the crown.

come on it was both the crown and sword lol

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

Frost DK weapons better than actual Frostmourne? Are you guys drunk again?
Sure, some blades with huge frost powers beat the sword whose touch could drain souls or provoke amnesia and was almost impossible to break, to the point we had a dungeon around trying to take it away from LK, and on the meantime could break every weapon or armor known to man.

So much hate on Sylvanas you guys are actually downgrading Arthas, who pretty much pees on Bolvar... kinda makes me like the banshee more for giving that lil backstabbing SoB a proper beating before Blizz vindicates him.

[Wildberry]

Frost DK weapons better than actual Frostmourne? Are you guys drunk again?
Sure, some blades with huge frost powers beat the sword whose touch could drain souls or provoke amnesia and was almost impossible to break, to the point we had a dungeon around trying to take it away from LK, and on the meantime could break every weapon or armor known to man.

The legendary Frostmourne, even four years after its destruction within Icecrown Citadel, remains one of the most infamous weapons in all of Azeroth.

With a bit of necromantic power, the broken shards could be reforged into a set of runeblades that have the potential to be as powerful as their predecessor, if not surpass it entirely

--(Source: "A Pact Of Necessity")

Garbage writing, but it is what it is.

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

--(Source: "A Pact Of Necessity")

Garbage writing, but it is what it is.

Well, it says it has the potential. That doesn't mean it lives up to the expectations. It clearly didn't.

[lappee]

We "kill" N'zoth, Sylvanas comes and slurps all its power = super queeny vs wannabe LK.

[Lycagon]

So, my take is that while Arthas accepted and embraced the power of the Helm of Domination along with Frostmourne, Bolvar didn't. Bolvar was merely the guy who sacrificed himself to keep lich king from plotting and schemes, along with keeping Helm of Domination safe from actions such as Sylvana's. In lore, Arthas spirit is fusing with Lich King's and they become one. It is unclear who remains in The Helm after Arthas dies at the end of the WOTLK since theyr spirits are fused and basically Lich King was only one entity. Also, in the book, in one vision, like in the game, inside the helm, Arthas is killing his childhood self along with Nerzhull spirit. So i think the reason Sylvanas bested Bolvar so easy is that Bolvar didnt TRULLY accepted the powers and didnt learn to use and most of it, harness them. Also, Frostmourne was the third most powerfull sword in wow lore, after Gorshalach and Atiesh, at par with Ashbringer. So, what we saw was a weak Lich King, a former shadow of what was when Arthas wear the Helm. My guess is that we will meet nerzhull and arthas inside shadowlands, and at the end of expansion, we will kill Sylvanas, seal Shadowlands back and reform the Helm so we will ALWAYS HAVE A LICH KING.

[Beefhammer]

powerful enough to raid wipe the entire raid. no other boss has ever done that.

So which is it? Are we lowly adventurers unworthy of killing bid bads, or mighty heroes capable of wiping the floor with them? I mean it seems to go whichever way to fit an argument.

[Difuid]

While the Lich King is easily one of the strongest. Sylvanas is now on a completely different level of power and her mysterious Master who is more ancient than time itself is beyond anything we have ever faced or seen in the story. Since her power is one with her master, no force in this universe or beyond can oppose her right now with the exception of Sargeras and her Master.

Not an issue, we will just borrow Mekkatorque's Proto Layered Optimal Titan Armor and teabag her mysterious Master in tier 2 or 3. Like we always do.

[Eazy]

lol at people who says that he's just a burned corpse with a crown or whatever. He was skilled paladin, he survived the plague and was burned by red dragonflight fire... and survived.

Did you see that Remorlessness winter? Did you see that he used his magic-hand trick to pull out a few obelisks from the ground? He IS the Lich King.(or was, and you cannot change it no matter what you want)
He clearly had powers.
Calling him a random nobody that just sits there and does nothing is just stupid.

Yeah pretty sure they can’t do that, which makes what you said bullshit

lol, they've done that plenty of times in the diablo: immortal. Same goes with the comments, which is bullshit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itBu7xfYekk
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comm...s_comments_on/
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...l/10174?page=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l3cw4gswOY
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20769568698

You do know that is not possible right?

YouTube can but blizzard cant. And even YT wouldn't intervene in a case like this with such small numbers.. it is probably the automated process of YT where they remove "Spam" or suspicious activity probably from the trolls that just dislike and leave from account that have no other recent engagement on them or without even watching the video.

There were plenty of comments from players that didn't like that cinematic and had thousands of likes. But yeah, call it SPAM or whatever.

Right now there are almost zero of negative comments with more than 100 likes under the cinematic.

powerful enough to raid wipe the entire raid. no other boss has ever done that.

Illidan(he trapped us, if it was not for Maiev/Akama, we would've been dead) and Argus?

[InfiniteCharger]

Lets remember the Lich King was the spectral essance of Nerzhul encased in the Helm of Domination created by the Legion.
Arthas merged with the Lich King by placing the Helm on his head and the two became one entity.
When Arthas died, whatever remained of Nerzhul's power remained in the crown and thus needed someone with a powerful will to merge with it.
This is where Bolvar came into play as a way to manage the power of Nerzhul and keep the crown from continuing its original purpose.

Obviously Arthas was not the power behind the Lich King. That power came from the Helm and Frostmourne which were imbued with powerful death magic. And that death magic came from the Legion not the shadowlands or any such forge existing there. (another retcon) The reason why the Lich King was considered "god tier" is because originally death power was a form of demonic legion magic and necromancy. And as such his power was unique on Azeroth.

Now that they have retconned the legions death magic powers and created multiple new death gods, of course the old death god is an obsolete holdover from past xpacs. So we have to show that we are removing that obsolete death god story in a new cinematic and come up with new death gods and new death zones.

That said, if Sylvanas was raising all those she killed as shown in the actual gameplay of BFA, then none of those souls were being fed to the jailer. So this opening intro and her powers cannot be justified by what is currently seen ingame in BFA.
Raising new undead means not sending them to the shadowlands and whatever new death god exists there.
The whole story of sylvanas up to this point has been keeping herself alive and raising new undead against the alliance.
You cannot both raise new undead and send them to the Maw at the same time.

Also, the dead night elves in previous lore never went to the shadowlands, they became wisps.
The idea that killing all those elves "empowered" Sylvanas makes absolutely no sense, especially seeing as she raised many of them.
Not to mention that even after those deaths she still almost got beat by Malfurion.
Also, with all these other death gods, such as Helya and BwonSamdi running around how are the dead not going to the shadowlands?
Think about it. The whole point of death magic and sorcery from the Legion is to bind the dead soul to the world of the living.
That goes against the natural order of any established death god and guiding souls to the shadowlands.
The whole point of the legion using death was to go against that natural order. So in reality they would have been enemies of any said "death gods". But yet we got new death gods showing up and all sorts of contradictory "death lore" and people still think this stuff makes sense? How many death gods do we really need?

[Feanoro]

people still think this stuff makes sense?

No, just around Blizzcon, the paid shills and white knights come out full force.

[faithbane]

There were plenty of comments from players that didn't like that cinematic and had thousands of likes. But yeah, call it SPAM or whatever.

Right now there are almost zero of negative comments with more than 100 likes under the cinematic.

I didn't say anything about comments. They can easily remove comments manually or through a filter where comments with certain words in it would get autoremoved BUT they can't remove dislikes from a video which is what I was talking about.

Only YouTube can do that and that is done through an automated system which decides if the action on the video is legit or not. If you click on the video, dislike, and leave without even watching it, there is a big chance it will be considered spam and removed especially if it is not a very active account.

[Valysar]

Or just because Sylvanas possesses powers from a powerful being, superior to the LK.

[dekal]

A large part of what made Arthas so powerful was Frostmourne and the vast number of souls trapped within. He was only defeated after the sword was broken. While i'm sure Bolvar's weapon was powerful, I seriously doubt it was anywhere near the same level. On top of that, this isn't Sylvanas' power she was using, it was borrowed from whatever benefactor we have yet to see.

[Rafoel]

I understand people are mad. I'm kind of mad too, because LK is my favourite character. However, yesterday I watched the fight frame by frame and the is a couple of more or less visible details that majority of people completely miss (to be fair, some of them are nearly invisible through normal watching). This fight isn't random, it tells a story:

1) When Bolvar takes his first swing at Sylvanas at 1:50, she actually raises her bow to parry. Then LK's mace clearly collides with the bow. Sylvanas fails to block the attack, in fact her arm gets completely swept aside. This is the first and only time in the whole cinematic where she even attempts to stop any of LK's strikes with her own strength. This suggests that this is in fact 1st time they exchange blows, despite battle going on for some time already (destroyed undead soldiers and some arrows in LK's armor). The arrows were appearently shot while he was still closing distance to her.

2) Immediately after the failed parry, she fires her purple arrow instead. This too, has no effect. From further events in cinematic we know just how powerful these arrows are, yet it deals completely no damage this time.

3) Lich King swings his hammer again. Due to 1, Sylvanas realizes she needs to dodge it. She jumps away from melee range, realizing she can't fight in this way. At 1:55, briefly, just after landing, we can see her face with mouth slightly open. It's an expression of shock. In 1:57 it changes into anger - anger, that despite all her power-ups she can't just overpower the LK, like she did with Saurfang.

4) Close-up on LK's face. He just mutters "hmmmm", noticing her decision to remain at distance. He knows he is too slow to close that distance. Instead, he attempts his own distance attack - in form of thrown saronite blocks. Sylvanas dodges two of them and spits the 3rd in arrow (yeah... compare it to 2).

5) LK realizes he won't be able to hit such agile target. At least... as long as that target sees what he is doing. He summons remorseless winter to hide his attacks.

6) Sylvanas face shows vigilance. She dodges his 1st strike. 2nd though, nearly hits her. She swings her arm in desperate dodge and bares her teeth in irritation. 3rd attack is heard, and she turns around with confident expression - 2:35. From the way she raises her arm just before turning around we can conclude she was preparing to counterattack the Lich King. It's not LK though, but another block of saronite. In brief moment at 2:36 we can see her face just before the block hits her. Its a face of surprise. There is no doubt the block DID hit her. There is no sign of any body movement before the block obscures whole view. (its probable that she turned into immaterial banshee form at some moment after the hit, thus preventing being smeared over the floor).

7) Lich King cancel the winter, thinking he won, and wanting to see the result. He appearently didn't know abut her ability to turn immaterial, because seeing only the remains of block he looks around in confusion. At this moment, chains start to appear from the arrows. LK fights against them. At 2:53, he actually destroys one of chains with his hammer. However, the chain reforms soon after. At this moment he realizes he can't free himself and stops struggling.

8) It isn't random that Sylvanas chose this moment to summon the chains. We know from Edge of Night that saronite can destroy Sylvanas. This block, if she didn't turn immaterial, would kill her. It made her realize she can't let the Lich King attack her anymore.

9) Sylvanas reforms and throws her own block at LK, possibly mimicking his previous attack (in a way: "lets see how YOU deal with this"). It seems that it collides with LK, but it actually isn't the case. At 3:08, briefly before it strikes, we can see LK creating blue force field with his hammer. The block visibly splits when reaching the force field, until its sides block the view and the only thing we see is rubble.

10) Lich King grunts, but thats not because of the block, but the chains. Additional chains even appear, pulling him to ground. One could wonder why doesn't attempt any magic. Chains DON'T block his magical abilities, we just saw him magically split the stone while already chained. He most likely wonders what Sylvanas wants to do. (Yes, he thought she came to became LK herself, but most likely assumed she needs to kill him to accomplish that - meanwhile she actually used this new type of magic to remove the crown from him, its doubtful it could be removed with force alone). Especially that so far she failed to damage him in any way.

11) He realizes that is happening when she starts to channel her magic. He attemps to strike with hammer. It looks like Sylvanas blocks it with some telekinesis, but its actually chains again - with her hand, she summons them around the hammer, and LK is completely stuck.

[Charge me Doctor]

and has Xal'atath.

Xal'atath fucked off after turning PC to N'Zoth, she doesn't have anything to do with Sylvanas

- - - Updated - - -

he just goes there casually dodged every single hit and then boom goes full BDSM on LK.

That's literally how you defeat bosses of old content, she hits you, you dodge all the attacks, then one shot him after alt+tabbing back into the game.

[Charge me Doctor]

he being humiliated like a whelp

Well, if you like to interpret cinematic like this - good for you

[tikcol]

Seriously what the fuck were they thinking. I don't know who came up with the idea for that trailer but it completely goes against the lore and made zero sense. Sylvanas out of everyone beating the LK?!!! Yeaahhh okay what u smoking blizzard and where can I get some? I don't give a fuck how many fucking powerups someone like her gets, she isn't beating the Lich King. I just feel like the LK planned out his defeat cause I can't see him losing on purpose.

And the Lich King is a OG of Warcraft, the top dog. He ain't gonna let some phoney shadowland undead god wannabe surpass him. Like I said I got a big feeling in my guts telling me the LK set this up to trick Sylvanas into opening the portal so he can invade it with the Scourge.

A guy with a LK avatar complaining that the character in question was defeated. Not biased at all

[Charge me Doctor]

I think the arrows turning into chains ability was BS too.

This actually reminds me of kinds playing pretend.
"Oh yeah? Then my arrows actually have magical chains that immobilize you!". It's just so dumb

- - - Updated - - -

So i think the reason Sylvanas bested Bolvar so easy is that Bolvar didnt TRULLY accepted the powers and didnt learn to use and most of it, harness them.

Turning Sylvanas pulling powers out of her ass aside - yes, i think that's what blizzard were hinting with Bolvar turning into Lich King (it's VERY easy to miss, but at this point his eyes, armour and weapon started glowing blue instead of red, very subtle hint) when he stood up from the throne. We haven't seen anything from Bolvar (like we ever saw him doing anything besides DIing a young boy) in this fight, because there was no Bolvar in it, it was just handicapped (without a proper host) Lich King

[Ihsan997]

I understand people are mad. I'm kind of mad too, because LK is my favourite character. However, yesterday I watched the fight frame by frame and the is a couple of more or less visible details that majority of people completely miss (to be fair, some of them are nearly invisible through normal watching). This fight isn't random, it tells a story:

1) When Bolvar takes his first swing at Sylvanas at 1:50, she actually raises her bow to parry. Then LK's mace clearly collides with the bow. Sylvanas fails to block the attack, in fact her arm gets completely swept aside. This is the first and only time in the whole cinematic where she even attempts to stop any of LK's strikes with her own strength. This suggests that this is in fact 1st time they exchange blows, despite battle going on for some time already (destroyed undead soldiers and some arrows in LK's armor). The arrows were appearently shot while he was still closing distance to her.

2) Immediately after the failed parry, she fires her purple arrow instead. This too, has no effect. From further events in cinematic we know just how powerful these arrows are, yet it deals completely no damage this time.

3) Lich King swings his hammer again. Due to 1, Sylvanas realizes she needs to dodge it. She jumps away from melee range, realizing she can't fight in this way. At 1:55, briefly, just after landing, we can see her face with mouth slightly open. It's an expression of shock. In 1:57 it changes into anger - anger, that despite all her power-ups she can't just overpower the LK, like she did with Saurfang.

4) Close-up on LK's face. He just mutters "hmmmm", noticing her decision to remain at distance. He knows he is too slow to close that distance. Instead, he attempts his own distance attack - in form of thrown saronite blocks. Sylvanas dodges two of them and spits the 3rd in arrow (yeah... compare it to 2).

5) LK realizes he won't be able to hit such agile target. At least... as long as that target sees what he is doing. He summons remorseless winter to hide his attacks.

6) Sylvanas face shows vigilance. She dodges his 1st strike. 2nd though, nearly hits her. She swings her arm in desperate dodge and bares her teeth in irritation. 3rd attack is heard, and she turns around with confident expression - 2:35. From the way she raises her arm just before turning around we can conclude she was preparing to counterattack the Lich King. It's not LK though, but another block of saronite. In brief moment at 2:36 we can see her face just before the block hits her. Its a face of surprise. There is no doubt the block DID hit her. There is no sign of any body movement before the block obscures whole view. (its probable that she turned into immaterial banshee form at some moment after the hit, thus preventing being smeared over the floor).

7) Lich King cancel the winter, thinking he won, and wanting to see the result. He appearently didn't know abut her ability to turn immaterial, because seeing only the remains of block he looks around in confusion. At this moment, chains start to appear from the arrows. LK fights against them. At 2:53, he actually destroys one of chains with his hammer. However, the chain reforms soon after. At this moment he realizes he can't free himself and stops struggling.

8) It isn't random that Sylvanas chose this moment to summon the chains. We know from Edge of Night that saronite can destroy Sylvanas. This block, if she didn't turn immaterial, would kill her. It made her realize she can't let the Lich King attack her anymore.

9) Sylvanas reforms and throws her own block at LK, possibly mimicking his previous attack (in a way: "lets see how YOU deal with this"). It seems that it collides with LK, but it actually isn't the case. At 3:08, briefly before it strikes, we can see LK creating blue force field with his hammer. The block visibly splits when reaching the force field, until its sides block the view and the only thing we see is rubble.

10) Lich King grunts, but thats not because of the block, but the chains. Additional chains even appear, pulling him to ground. One could wonder why doesn't attempt any magic. Chains DON'T block his magical abilities, we just saw him magically split the stone while already chained. He most likely wonders what Sylvanas wants to do. (Yes, he thought she came to became LK herself, but most likely assumed she needs to kill him to accomplish that - meanwhile she actually used this new type of magic to remove the crown from him, its doubtful it could be removed with force alone). Especially that so far she failed to damage him in any way.

11) He realizes that is happening when she starts to channel her magic. He attemps to strike with hammer. It looks like Sylvanas blocks it with some telekinesis, but its actually chains again - with her hand, she summons them around the hammer, and LK is completely stuck.

Thank you for posting this. It’s insightful and should settle some of the saltiness if people read it and watch the cinematic again.