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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    I wonder why they didnt go with Emerald Dream instead.

    It would probaly be a much better option.
    We all wonder the same. It deserves its own xpac

  2. #62
    Bloodsail Admiral MrSaggins's Avatar
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    Being cunning enough to steal from the Shadowlands is honestly a lot cooler for me than just saying “Well the Nathrezim and Kil Jaeden had a power level of over 9000.” The whole this is stronger than that game is ridiculous.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "There is another person on the other end of the chat screen. They're our friends; they're our brothers and sisters; they're our sons and daughters. Let's take a stand to reject hate and harassment, and let's redouble our efforts to be kind and respectful to one another, and let's remind the world what the gaming community is really all about."

    Mike Morhaime CEO of Blizzard Entertainment, Blizzcon 2014 (view)

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    well Blizzard just folows the Rule of Cool at this point
    And when exactly haven't they followed the rule of cool? That's always been blizz's MO lol

  4. #64

    I agree on some levels

    I understand some of what you are saying, I have mixed feelings as well on the story. This is a big change in terms of game play and it challenges many of our in-game preconceptions, especially religion. I play a NE Druid on my main, I am on an RP server. My Druid worships the Wild Gods with an emphasis on Cenarius, as well as his mother Elune. Now to find out that Cenarius went to the Shadowlands upon his death will be beyond shocking to my Druid. In the Shadowlands, my Druid will see there are beings from a variety of religions (faiths), including Valkyr like entities, plus beings that will appear to her as part of the Scourge, etc. These revelations should actually shake my Druids' faith as well as the other in-game cultures to their foundations. But, the expansion story won't be written with this in mind at all, I bet that all factional and possible faith NPCs that go with us will amazingly be unconcerned with these ground breaking discoveries because the writers will make it seem like it doesn't matter. If we worship the Tauren Earth Mother, Elune, the Loa, the Wild Gods, the Titans, the Light, the Void, Death or worship nothing, apparently it doesn't matter and we're all funneled through the Arbiter to wherever or more recently you're stolen by a Jailer and put into the Maw. Massively disappointing that Lore wise, all of the religions in Warcraft are now apparently false.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by KYZ123 View Post
    At this point, they have two options for new expansion lore. Either they retcon in a new threat (such as in Shadowlands), or they return a defeated one (e.g. Sargeras breaks free). Neither are really good options, but they've more-or-less exhausted the previous lore. The Legion, the Scourge, the Old Gods, Deathwing - they've all been defeated. There's the void lords, but it was established that only powerful void lords can actually physically manifest, and can do so only for a time, so they can hardly be an Arthas or Deathwing level threat. They could do an expansion based on the 'tyranny of the light', I guess.
    It's not so much them exhausting the old lore, but just wasting it. Nyalotha Argus Nazjatar are all very good examples.

    I have this feeling that they WANT to start fresh, because it requires less effort. Like you KNOW just what could have been possible for Nazjatar, and you wanted to see it, right? You had expectations, ideas. But you have no f.cking clue how the shadowlands look like so they are free to "underdevelop" it. And of course PR. Illidan sold well in Legion, Bolvar probably sells good in SL.
    And then I assume we, the players have a "map fatigue" now. Hence we needed some "otherworldly". That is what whatshisface said in the Q&A when they were asked about preplanning expansions. He said that they wanted the next expansion to be otherworldly, so we got SL.

  6. #66
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoser View Post
    Man looking at your avatar just makes me sad since it's possible to actually write an interesting, consistent and "grey" antagonist in an MMO.


    Emet-Selch give any fictional villain a run for his money regardless of genre or even medium.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcella View Post
    I understand some of what you are saying, I have mixed feelings as well on the story. This is a big change in terms of game play and it challenges many of our in-game preconceptions, especially religion. I play a NE Druid on my main, I am on an RP server. My Druid worships the Wild Gods with an emphasis on Cenarius, as well as his mother Elune. Now to find out that Cenarius went to the Shadowlands upon his death will be beyond shocking to my Druid.
    I was always under the impression that Wild Gods and their offsprings go to the Dream when they die, and are reborn from there. The devs said as much. So Cenarius now going to a zone that would work super well in an Emerald Dream expansion but is in fact a part of the Shadowlands, is kinda dumb.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    I was always under the impression that Wild Gods and their offsprings go to the Dream when they die, and are reborn from there. The devs said as much.
    Sorry, lore is no longer under the "constraints" of consistency. Now it's whatever the hell they feel like at the moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  8. #68
    I will never understand the obsession with lore people have for a video game about slaying internet dragons for imaginary loot. There never seems to be any constructive criticism, just pointless "Blizzard sucks, {x franchise} did it better" echo chambers. Is suspension of disbelief that difficult for you guys? Or are you just looking for validation from other strangers on the internet that your idealized version of Blizzard would have written better stories?

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I will never understand the obsession with lore people have about a video game about slaying internet dragons for imaginary loot. There never seems to be any constructive criticism, just pointless "Blizzard sucks, {x franchise} did it better" echo chambers. Is suspension of disbelief that difficult for you guys? Or are you just looking for validation from other strangers on the internet that your idealized version of Blizzard would have written better stories?
    Suspension of disbelieve in a world without rules is like saying "I don't care about the lore at all".

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoser View Post
    Blizzard said the helm and frostmourne come from the shadowlands.
    But it could be still Nathrezim who entered it. Kil'jaeden is very powerful warlock, I am sure that he could have made similar deal to Odyn.
    Last edited by matrix123mko; 2019-11-03 at 02:43 PM.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  11. #71
    And it makes me happy and I cant wait

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    Suspension of disbelieve in a world without rules is like saying "I don't care about the lore at all".
    There's a fine line between not caring and expecting WoW lore to be a carefully curated masterwork the likes of which the most legendary fantasy writers of all time would envy. It seems to me most WoW fans can't decide which end of the spectrum they want the lore in this game to occupy. The only thing I ever see anybody agree with is that "it sucks" and that is such a lame fucking criticism to see over and over again.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    There's a fine line between not caring and expecting WoW lore to be a carefully curated masterwork the likes of which the most legendary fantasy writers of all time would envy. It seems to me most WoW fans can't decide which end of the spectrum they want the lore in this game to occupy. The only thing I ever see anybody agree with is that "it sucks" and that is such a lame fucking criticism to see over and over again.
    Wish I had invested in straw before Blizzcon unleashed all the shills.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    There's a fine line between not caring and expecting WoW lore to be a carefully curated masterwork the likes of which the most legendary fantasy writers of all time would envy. It seems to me most WoW fans can't decide which end of the spectrum they want the lore in this game to occupy. The only thing I ever see anybody agree with is that "it sucks" and that is such a lame fucking criticism to see over and over again.
    Suspension of disblieve used to mean "I accept that there is magic and dragons in the world". But in WOW now it appearantly means "there are no rules, devs make up everything as they go and what might be true today is false tomorrow".

    So why should I get invested in the lore? Why should I care? I don't expect Tolkien. But even Games Workshop handels their lore better and they just want to sell miniatures. -_-

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoser View Post
    Man looking at your avatar just makes me sad since it's possible to actually write an interesting, consistent and "grey" antagonist in an MMO.



    Blizzard said the helm and frostmourne come from the shadowlands.
    This Blizzcon they did. Prior we had no clue.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    Suspension of disblieve used to mean "I accept that there is magic and dragons in the world". But in WOW now it appearantly means "there are no rules, devs make up everything as they go and what might be true today is false tomorrow".

    So why should I get invested in the lore? Why should I care? I don't expect Tolkien. But even Games Workshop handels their lore better and they just want to sell miniatures. -_-
    Personally, I've always seen lore as an ends to justify the means. The means being the gameplay itself. I've never been bothered by retcons or characters making decisions which seem antithetical to previously established beliefs. If the settings are decent and the story makes sense on a surface level, I'm satisfied. I get it, I'm probably in the minority with this perspective posting on the Lore subforum but I still don't understand what players hope to achieve seeking platitudes from one another over the shared distaste they have with the way Blizzard handles storytelling in WoW.

  17. #77
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Everything you said is dead on, especially the part where the devs give jackshit about old lore they didn't wrote, that is just to be used as a step to create their own magnificent lore, if something go against their lore, they change it and retcon, call a day, they don't give a fuck about consistency and lore as long it is "cool"

    I am also, completely disappointed by shadowlands, looks meh to me, maybe is my fault to expect "shadowlands", not faun forest an vampire city and some vrykul shenanigans i guess?

    wish they could hve explored more about world mythology, like elisiun and Erebus, then the tartarus, or take from the divine comedy of hell, or bring other afterlifes, im not seeing "valhalla" with that kyrian zone.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2019-11-03 at 03:31 PM.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Emet-Selch give any fictional villain a run for his money regardless of genre or even medium.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I was always under the impression that Wild Gods and their offsprings go to the Dream when they die, and are reborn from there. The devs said as much. So Cenarius now going to a zone that would work super well in an Emerald Dream expansion but is in fact a part of the Shadowlands, is kinda dumb.
    I know, so disappointing.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    ...
    In light of Blizzcon 2019, you should update your signature to Shadowlands' logo.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by keelr View Post
    While i disagree with most of what you said, i couldnt agree more with this. I think the current writing team lacks the ability to build up characters and all they do is just harvesting the epicness of the characters that are already there. Not just making them look stupid after a time, but making the whole atmosphere bad.

    Wish we could get some new lore, some fresh lore like Pandaria or Cataclysm.
    Please, Metzen constantly retconned his own shit. Anyone remember the Draenei from WC3 that was completely changed by the time WTBC came out?

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