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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post

    - Class revamps are nowhere near as massive as they were with Legion because they deemed this as "not necessary". For some specs it might be true but many specs play so bland and boring that revamps are even needed more than before Legion (e.g. Shadowpriests, they've been perfectly fine before Legion and then been ruined and only became worse in BfA, the same about Resto Shamans and several other specs).
    Hard to tell without seeing the endproduct. Knowing anti magic shell and auras come back is nice to know and a good step, but we really know nothing about actual gameplay until alpha/beta starts which, judging from interviews, won't be this year.

    I don't know if they keep bringing legion up because of player feedback or if they come up with this themselfes, but they need to realize they don't have to do that and no one expects it. We don't want to have every spec fundamentally changed every expansion, but we want the few that still don't have an identity or where ruined by legion to be worked on.(sub,arcane,shadow,(mm)hunter)

    J allen brack actually summarized it pretty good. They are to fast to act and to slow to react. Priests got shadowform despite negative feedback and now they are stuck with it because it is in the game for years. We didn't want to have voidform or any fancy ressource, we got it anyway. There may be people out there that enjoy the playstyle now, but what about the players that quit over the years after the changes to shadow?
    (Shadow may be a bad example because its the dominant raiding class in bfa)

  2. #62
    Banned Lilithvia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretAgent View Post
    Exactlty , They are bringing back abilities which wont be used in core rotation , i doubt fire mage would use frostbolt , it feels more like cosmetic spells ...

    We need fundemental changes to classes ,
    Bring back artifact abilities as baseline
    Remove all useless talents and replace them with new ones
    Give more baseline class abilities
    New talent row



    It seems holinka is proud he was able to convince people classes will be good , when in reality they will just change few things like BfA and be done with it




    Plus covenants are rehashed artifacts and order halls , and will create many problems for dual spec , thats without mentioning balancing

    Tower of doom is island expeditionds rehashed
    So uh, Unholy would like a word with you on bringing back artifact abilities...
    We never lost ours.

  3. #63
    New feature: We give you back abilities that we took away. You'll barely use them again, but at least you get them back!

  4. #64
    he's proud of his team work because their goal is to get retail and classic gameplays more aligned in order to facilitate the transition for classic players toward retail.
    People would be like, oh gameplays have evolved but I recognize those spells from classic, great!
    But that only happens in Holinka's deranged mind... for people with functionning brain this gameplay update announcement was garbage and devoided of any real information about how classes will function in shadowlands.

    From Ion's announcement on class focus a few months ago, it felt like a cheap attempt to lighten the amount of work required to keep classes and spec entertaining with modern designs.
    And now Holinka's is kind of confirming this feeling. Not even bothering laying out their goals and objectives for new class designs, just cheaply throwing out there names of abilities they'll put back in the game.

    Those were removed for good reasons, why bother explaining what motivates them to bring them back or in what form they want those back? Thank you Holinka, whatever work your team has made, you definitely were the big fail of the deep dive...

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    We don't know enough at this stage. To me, it sounded like a lot of the decisions they make will rely on player feedback during the Alpha/Beta, similar to Legion.
    Havent heard that one before ;P

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    - Compared to Covenants even Azerite traits look exciting. Covenants are Reputations with glorified Essences plus a pretty useless "fun" ability for mobility or movement; the passive talent trees (Soulbinds) are just boring passives, the main reason why they got rid of talent trees in the first place. It's not bad, it's just completely uncreative and shallow.[/B]
    There are 48 new talents, 4 for each class. You haven't even seen them all. How about we wait a year until this expansion comes out, then play it, and then judge how good it is.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrian Warrior View Post
    There are 48 new talents, 4 for each class. You haven't even seen them all. How about we wait a year until this expansion comes out, then play it, and then judge how good it is.
    And each one of those spells are borrowed. Once this expansion is over we will lose them anyway.
    Hell, we aren't even getting a new talent row =A=

  8. #68
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Considering Holinka's entire career has been him failing upwards and being repeatedly promoted beyond his competence, I suppose he's proud of his ability to spin a situation to make himself look good to management.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    1. Wait for the Deep Dive, guys!
    2. Wait for the Q&A! They're sure to answer everything there!
    3. Wait for the Alpha! It's stupid to argue before we even get to play the game.
    4. Wait for the Beta! The game was clearly in an unfinished stage in Alpha!
    5. Wait for the first patch! They weren't able to get everything fixed in time, but by the first patch, I'm sure they will!
    6. Wait for the second patch! The first patch is always a bit messy with every expansion, guys.
    7. Wait for the third patch! The last patch will redeem this expansion.
    8. Wait for the next expansion! After they fucked up this expansion so bad, there's no chance in hell that the next expansion could be bad.
    You can always just go and play a different game since you hate WoW so much.

    Same goes for the rest of you whiners. Go play something else, clearly WoW is not the game you enjoy anymore. Why torture yourselves with it? Bye.

  10. #70
    Scarab Lord ercarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Costanza View Post
    Havent heard that one before ;P
    It worked out alright for Legion. For BfA? Not so much.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    This is not true

    Have you seen both the passives that were presented to us?
    Have you actually read them?

    1)5% crit increase against people with lower health pool than you creates a snowball effect in PvP

    2)30% reduced damage when you fall bellow 35% health is INSANE in PvP

    And this are just a SMALL option in the tree.

    Are...you...insane?
    Strong passive
    But incredibly boring . It doesn't change your gameplay in the least or is a fun gimmick .
    The passive could make you entirely invincible at all time and that still wouldn't make it interessting .

    What i consider a good passive is something that boost your ressources generation , lower your cooldown ,modify an existing spell so it do something different for a short time ect...

    all of that force you to make decisions that you would be able to do and directly impact your gameplay .
    Last edited by naeblis495; 2019-11-03 at 03:33 PM.

  12. #72
    Scarab Lord ercarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    You can always just go and play a different game since you hate WoW so much.

    Same goes for the rest of you whiners. Go play something else, clearly WoW is not the game you enjoy anymore. Why torture yourselves with it? Bye.
    Jesus Christ, calm down, I was just going off the other guy's comment and making a joke. If you want my honest opinion, I will wait until I see more of the expansion before I either condemn or praise it. At the moment, I'm on the fence.

  13. #73
    Proud of bringing back some 15 years old abilities. Which is great, but I'm not excited about.

    I'd be excited about class overhauls, spec reworks, adding more roles to classes if not a new class, modernized ability mechanics and audio and visual effects. I kept saying something like this must be coming, but it didn't. I quite like the expansion premise, but the class work, at least from what was presented is a complete disappointment.

    I'm not getting on the "it will be better next beta/patch/expansion" wagon. He said he is proud of what his team has accomplished and all we saw is they are bringing back some old abilities.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Beta is made to test. Complaining about clearly unfinished internal alpha is just pointless. If you haven't got level 60 and haven't tested covenants(I don't think they have many talents, maybe that talent tree was just one talent and some placeholder icons) and new classes(which didn't appear on Blizzcon demo) is like complaining about raw meat not being tasty.
    My god. They showed us NOTHING. I didn't want a complete showcase of reworked classes, covenants, legendaries or whatever. But at least I wanted something. We got nothing. You clearly didn't follow BfA beta because your statement is just naive. It was exactly as you said during the BfA announcement and then during beta and people like you were in their usual mantra "it's just alpha, beta, pre patch etc.". When will you learn?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Isiolia View Post
    I think with the few changes they've shown we might actually have a really good expansion here. Obviously the talents going baseline are going to be replaced, we haven't seen shit about the legendaries (which were game changing in Legion) and the same applies for the soulbinding.
    It's Blizzard's fault that they didn't show us at least one example. It's not the players' fault to ask for one little showcase (of a reworked spec, of a crafted legendary) to know what to expect. And we've seen an example of Soulbinding and it was laughably shallow. Passive bonuses. Wow.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrian Warrior View Post
    There are 48 new talents, 4 for each class. You haven't even seen them all. How about we wait a year until this expansion comes out, then play it, and then judge how good it is.
    How about no?

    I've seen 11 (Kyrian) + 4 (Mage). At least 50% of them have been generic stuff that mimics an on-use trinket or, as I said, an Essence in BfA.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2019-11-03 at 04:14 PM.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  15. #75
    i was so happy when totems were gone in legion. i would play classic if i wanted to waste gcds for clunky shit

  16. #76
    The mantra begins again.

    It’s only Alpha!

    It’s only Beta!

    It’s only launch!

    It’s only 9.1!

    It’s only 9.2!

    It’s only 9.3!

    They’ll fix it next expansion!

  17. #77
    He's proud that his team is doing shi*ty job for the last 4 years and just now getting paid to bring back old ability from 4 years ago, it takes a bunch of geniuses to perform such feat.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    I only feel ashamed to be happy that they give us back a tiny bit of all they took.
    That's relatable and also sad as fuck.

  19. #79
    The whole "unpruning" sounds stupid.

    Who cares if you get back frostbolt as a fire mage, you'll still be fishing for Fireball crits and will never touch frost.

    The spec mechanics need to be re-adressed if they don't want this to be pointless. And moving away from spec identity is moving backwards. But they aren't talking about major class changes, they likely aren't happening.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    At least in MoP, there were plenty of people doing PvP
    I only care about PvP in this game.
    And maybe some casual mythic+'s

    This image is from the statistics of MoP

    That picture with 3.6 million pet battles makes me want to kill myself every time I see it. Perfect poster for how far wow has fallen.

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