9.0 General Discussion

[formerShandalay]

That's what they said about Illidan.

They clearly need to clarify some of the lore, like who was the Lich King before Ner'zul? Clearly Sargeras had some shadowland abilities because he could grant his followers the ability to traverse death itself. So making Frostmorne was part of that? To destabilize Lordaeron? Still "corruption" can't make you do anything that wasn't already your secret desire. & At this time Nerzul was already rebelling against the burning legion. That means while giving him Frostmorne was part of the legions plan, becoming a Scourge Minion was not. So he got manipulated by Mal'Ganis AND Kel'thuzad? Completely independently? At that point, he's evil just for being stupid.

Meanwhile, Sylvanas is smart. Clearly, in Azeroth "thats just how life is" is a lie. When first she saw the maw, she was innocent. She was a Hero of Silvermoon. She didn't deserve the maw. Then she saw it two more times...clearly that mother & baby killed by arthas in her Shadowbringer short were sent to the Maw as well clearly there was a travesty against nature going on & she is the only one who understands it enough to stop it

Clearly

When she died for the first time, she was innocent, that was when she actually went to 'heaven'. We know this from her short story. So no, back then no one went to the Maw who wasn't supposed to. We also see Kael'thas and Uther as members of the other orders, so they didn't go to the Maw either.
When Sylvanas committed suicide in Icecrown, that's when she went to the Maw and she already deserved it then. While I think you could still argue it, I do think her refusing all of the chances the Val'kyr tried to offer her to be selfless and do something for her people (which one of the val'kyr was quite incredulous about) sealed the deal. that was also when she came into contact with the Jailer, which was only hinted at in her story, but she did see powers that made the Lich King seem small in comparison.
So in my opinion she's trying to set everyone free in the same way that Amon wanted to in Starcraft or the same way that Medivh agreed with Sargeras: by ending the world and sending everyone into oblivion (or the Void), because the world existing means that rules exist in order for it to continue. Those rules, that order is what is the prison for everyone and make everyone a pawn. But really, if you ask people, I bet they'd prefer existing to not existing, with only some nihilists disagreeing.

[Makabreska]

For the Dark Lady....always

Ok, well. Nothing to do here. Just remember, how pre-BfA turned out, with all that "Teldrassil was an accident/Old God/inside job" rambling.

[Ersula]

But really, if you ask people, I bet they'd prefer existing to not existing, with only some nihilists disagreeing.

Except not-existing isn't actually an option here in Azeroth. Some souls were being rescued from the maw, but not most of them, as Ion said. Sylvanas wants to release the Jailor, which would free the souls of the maw, not destroy them. Ala "Set us all free"

So not like Amon, exactly like Kerrigan: destroy the unjust dichotomy, even if a few innocents need to die.

Its a little fascistic on Blizzard's part but it is the rationality they repeatedly rely on. At least here we see anyone who dies isn't "dead dead"

All the banshees that follow her were rescued from the maw. Thats why they follow her. Now she can destroy the maw entirely.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, well. Nothing to do here. Just remember, how pre-BfA turned out, with all that "Teldrassil was an accident/Old God/inside job" rambling.

It was an improvisation. We didn't have an explaination. But now we do. The world is a prison. You can't liberate the afterlife without breaking a few moral codes

[Flurryfang]

So.... What is actually the thing, that is supposed to draw us in to Shadowlands, when it comes to new features?

Like a revamp of levels is not really something to carry an expansion. The tower is just M+ solo and covenants are a weak form of order halls...... So what is the new big thing? O.o

I feel like we are being given a big patch instead of a new expansion, when it comes to new features.

[Raetary]

Except not-existing isn't actually an option here in Azeroth. Some souls were being rescued from the maw, but not most of them, as Ion said. Sylvanas wants to release the Jailor, which would free the souls of the maw, not destroy them. Ala "Set us all free"

Wonderful idea.

Except for that its not just the innocent souls will be released, but every monstrosity that was jailed there aswell.

- - - Updated - - -

So.... What is actually the thing, that is supposed to draw us in to Shadowlands, when it comes to new features?

Like a revamp of levels is not really something to carry an expansion. The tower is just M+ solo and covenants are a weak form of order halls...... So what is the new big thing? O.o

I feel like we are being given a big patch instead of a new expansion, when it comes to new features.

They are focusing on systemic changes over big fat features.


And honestly, i prefer they do that than give us another baseless feature like warfronts or islands.

[Ersula]

So.... What is actually the thing, that is supposed to draw us in to Shadowlands, when it comes to new features?

Like a revamp of levels is not really something to carry an expansion. The tower is just M+ solo and covenants are a weak form of order halls...... So what is the new big thing? O.o

I feel like we are being given a big patch instead of a new expansion, when it comes to new features.

Just uninstall the game, dude.

[Flurryfang]

Just uninstall the game, dude.

Already did. Looking for a reason to return as i do with every expansion

[Kneckt95]

My prediction: Alpha by mid December at the latest.
8.3: end of November or just after(within the next week)

[Flurryfang]

Wonderful idea.

Except for that its not just the innocent souls will be released, but every monstrosity that was jailed there aswell.

- - - Updated - - -



They are focusing on systemic changes over big fat features.


And honestly, i prefer they do that than give us another baseless feature like warfronts or islands.

I agree with you.

I would rather have an overall upgrade than just a shiny new thing to put on a pile of rust. That said, i do feel like they lack a thing to draw me in. Like, i like upgrades and improvements of the game, but that is normally something that happens in patches. Like leveling squish seems close to a thing like the last leveling update, but that happened in a patch.

Nearly every expansion had a big thing, that made it feel like a new expansion, like a big change that they had saved up to. But i really can't find it in Shadowlands as of now. Covenants seems minor, like a new talent or something. Aside from just a generel comment about "things are better", what is the selling point?

[Ersula]

Wonderful idea.

Except for that its not just the innocent souls will be released, but every monstrosity that was jailed there aswell.

They told you everything you needed to know in the shadowlands trailer & the Sylvanas Warbringers short: would you allow a baby to suffer eternal damnation for the sake of a criminal?

[Asphyx22]

My prediction: Alpha by mid December at the latest.
8.3: end of November or just after(within the next week)

I feel like they are going to make people wait till January for 8.3. They tend to wind down during the holiday season.

[Raetary]

They told you everything you needed to know in the shadowlands trailer & the Sylvanas Warbringers short: would you allow a baby to suffer eternal damnation for the sake of a criminal?

1) That baby and mother are not in the maw
2) What i would do is work with the malevolent force that's supposed to order that plane of reality in order to fix the issue, and not ally myself with the evil chained up guy governing warcrafts version of hell so i can force my choices upon the rest of the world because i have a depressing view of the world.

[formerShandalay]

Except not-existing isn't actually an option here in Azeroth. Some souls were being rescued from the maw, but not most of them, as Ion said. Sylvanas wants to release the Jailor, which would free the souls of the maw, not destroy them. Ala "Set us all free"

So not like Amon, exactly like Kerrigan: destroy the unjust dichotomy, even if a few innocents need to die.

Its a little fascistic on Blizzard's part but it is the rationality they repeatedly rely on. At least here we see anyone who dies isn't "dead dead"

All the banshees that follow her were rescued from the maw. Thats why they follow her. Now she can destroy the maw entirely.

- - - Updated - - -


It was an improvisation. We didn't have an explaination. But now we do. The world is a prison. You can't liberate the afterlife without breaking a few moral codes

The void doesn't consume souls in seconds, at least not unless it actually gets inside reality. Until it does, it consumes souls slowly, over eons. Whoever gets stuck in the maw does so for half of eternity until they are finally gone. I mean, ok, feed it all in one fell swoop and it might go faster, but you're still gone nonetheless. No one gets saved. In the end death claims us all, that's Sylvanas's own words, right there.

[George Costanza]

My prediction: Alpha by mid December at the latest.
8.3: end of November or just after(within the next week)

LOL no

that is faaaaar to early for alpha

Late april for alpha at the earliest (and that is me being optimistic) Could see it being a late may/early june announcement for alpha.

[Nagawithlegs]

I feel like they are going to make people wait till January for 8.3. They tend to wind down during the holiday season.

Doubt it. I think shifting the anniversary event to earlier in the month means that 8.3 is dropping in November.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

No one gets saved. In the end death claims us all, that's Sylvanas's own words, right there.

Ironic considering how Sylvanas tries to evade that fact.

[Ersula]

1) That baby and mother are not in the maw
2) What i would do is work with the malevolent force that's supposed to order that plane of reality in order to fix the issue, and not ally myself with the evil chained up guy governing warcrafts version of hell so i can force my choices upon the rest of the world because i have a depressing view of the world.

1) Ion already said some people were going into the maw tha didn't deserve it. So if not them, some other innocents are there.
2)we dont know the full context but the Jailer wants to be free so he can be free. Sylvanas wasts him free to free the victims of the maw. Freeing the Jailer is the lesser evil. Its all been a series of lesser evils.

"Death comes for us all but that doesn't end our torment" so its time for some changes

[Maxilian]

It feels more like Sylvanas wants the Jailer free to get rid of the shadowlands per se, and, most likely, also get rid of the Jailer, a world without death

[Caerule]

Okay, here me out on this speculation:

-Like a million souls were unjustly sent into the Maw in the past few years.

-We are definitely going to release those unjustly imprisoned souls at the end of the Shadowlands expansion.

-Guess whom we swore a blood oath to, to deliver a million souls?

Bwonsamdi saw everything coming, and may end up the true winner in the Shadowlands expansion, if the deal with the Horde player works out...

[shoc]

Can't wait for playable spirit healers.