Sylvanas has been working for the jailor since edge of night.

[Wildberry]

Honestly, my OP was written in that fashion because I was so flabbergasted that Blizzard truly doesn't give a flying monkies about their story. I couldn't help but laugh in both horror and shock that any writing team would commit major retcons like this.

Naturally. Posts written immediatel after big info drops are always less structured and coherent. So long as the general idea is apparent, I don't think that's really an issue.

[Combatbutler]

Consistency and cohesion have never been their primary watchwords - they pay lip-service to it, sure; but if they want to do something cool they'll find a way to shoehorn it in and always have.

Which is why the story is garbage ,has been garbage and will remain garbage as long as blizz doesn't change said practice. Consistency is the core of every last story, if you don't value it enough the whole thing unravels, simple as that. The warcraft universe had a sliver of hope with them creating a basic structure for it, only for them to toss it all aside yet again, whatever they write is not praise worthy, absolutely none of it, not with their attitude to the overall story. There is no real care or investment for the story just superficial hogwash and blizz should be called out for it.

The whole warcraft story can be summed up as varying degrees of dumpster fire, the recent developments are nothing but the same soulless sparkly creations as usual.

[Aucald]

Which is why the story is garbage ,has been garbage and will remain garbage as long as blizz doesn't change said practice. Consistency is the core of every last story, if you don't value it enough the whole thing unravels, simple as that. The warcraft universe had a sliver of hope with them creating a basic structure for it, only for them to toss it all aside yet again, whatever they write is not praise worthy, absolutely none of it, not with their attitude to the overall story. There is no real care or investment for the story just superficial hogwash and blizz should be called out for it.

The whole warcraft story can be summed up as varying degrees of dumpster fire, the recent developments are nothing but the same soulless sparkly creations as usual.

À chacun son goût as the saying goes, to each their own taste. I don't think my level of personal investment is really the same as yours, as I can't be moved to either the level of vitriol or ceaseless praise either way. For me I find the story engaging enough and the game generally fun to play - that's all I really require in my diversions.

[keltharmoonrage]

Except we know from her discussions on the topic of war with Saurfang in A Good War that Stormwind had to be the end goal because the Horde lacked resources (and that was even after she got high on Azerite) to take it before dealing with the rest of the Alliance. And it was her that pointed that out, not Saurfang. Also, a bit on the side note, she said she longed for, not that she desired it for long. "Longing" does not convey any information about the length of time, only information about the intensity of the desire.




Arthas showed the capacity to un-resurrect Forsaken, free willed undead that were no longer bound to him? Why are there still Forsaken then?




Ah, yes. The usual "people criticize the story's flaws only because the story didn't go a particular way they desired. So much better than your previous apologism of Blizzard.

Ah yes the usual " its the usual insert valid argument here that I will dimiss as the usual because I have an answer for everything argument"

[Lane]

In my opinion its also very clear that Golden especially really doesn't like certain aspects of Warcraft and trys to push for the worst changes, who are oh so precious from her point of view.

Is she the one who hates NEs? :P

[Al Gorefiend]

To be serious for a moment I honestly think wow needs a soft reboot, Chromie just push the button to save the characters from this bloody travesty of crap-tier writing.

When did WoW actually have good writing though? It’s always been campy crap

[Grenzstein]

Not only that. Before she picked up Gallywix's Azerite sample that gave her visions, her plan in Before the Storm's earlier chapters was to sack Stormwind and raise its population as the Forsaken, making it a typical old Sylvanas type of plan to replenish her forces after Genn prevented her from gaining immortality. And that plan would have prevented the souls of dead Stormwindians from going to the Maw and powering her up which is her current MO.

Yes, because she was being completely honest with Saurfang on her plans of sacking Stormwind.
Also, she was completely honest on not wanting do destroy Darnassus.

It's not a retcon or Blizzard forgetting something, you are just trusting her words as if she had no reason whatsoever to lie.

[Arcella]

Actually, Sylvanas has been working with anima since vanilla. There is that horde questline in Hillsbrad where undead are jailed after fleeing UC. They had brought chunks of anima with them that were being intensely studied by the Royal Apothecary Society, fearing that some terrible plan was being hatched long-term regarding the material. They even explained what anima was: anima is the four elemental forces bound together PLUS blood. The Shadowlands exac is the culmination of that vanilla questline.

Is this the same Anima from the Blood Gollem in the Throne of Thunder and the blood anima they were working on in Nazjatar?

[Mehrunes]

Yes, because she was being completely honest with Saurfang on her plans of sacking Stormwind.
Also, she was completely honest on not wanting do destroy Darnassus.

It's not a retcon or Blizzard forgetting something, you are just trusting her words as if she had no reason whatsoever to lie.

Given how her plans of getting to Stormwind when talking to Saurfang somehow magically happens to overlap with the plans she was discussing with Nathanos, you don't really have any point here. Unless you want to pretend she was lying to Nathanos as well, despite Sylvanas obviously being open to him in regards to her goals.

[Grenzstein]

Given how her plans of getting to Stormwind when talking to Saurfang somehow magically happens to overlap with the plans she was discussing with Nathanos, you don't really have any point here. Unless you want to pretend she was lying to Nathanos as well, despite Sylvanas obviously being open to him in regards to her goals.

Once again, you are kinda misinterpreting everything.

Sylvanas would sack Stormwind ? In a heartbeat. Think of the mountain of corpses it would create. Was her plan to replenish the forsaken ? Not at all. She was just looking to kill people. That's why she ordered the retreat in the Broken Shore, that's why she attacked and destroyed Darnassus.

Nathanos might know some of her plans but if he knows about her deal with the Jailor or not, we will learn about it soon. You keep falling for the same trick: Sylvanas was lying to the horde since her suicide in Icecrown. Her only goal was to create as much death as possible. And we now know that she was getting more powerful as the dead were siphoned into the Maw.

[dragnipur]

Didn't Blizzard say Sylvanas is working with the Jailer and not for him?There is a difference.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Didn't Blizzard say Sylvanas is working with the Jailer and not for him?There is a difference.

A slave by any other name is still a slave.

I think we can be reasonably sure that Sylvanas' relationship with the Jailor is the same as Azshara's and N'zoth. She may perceive it as a deal between equal parties, but it most certainly is not.

[Saltysquidoon]

When did WoW actually have good writing though? It’s always been campy crap

Since when does wanting a coherent consistent story equate to caring how campy a story is? No one here (at least not me) is asking for WoW to become gritty low fantasy edgefests with biting insightful social commentary.

WCIII is campy as all hell (jinkies) and 'reverse king Arthur' and 'apes, together, strong' aren't highbrow themes but both work on their own and tie in together fine. Additionally characters in RoC are consistent when they appear in TFT.

Also I'm frankly not a huge fan of the illidan retcons in legion even though they were just unfucking the TBC story they admitted they screwed the pooch on. And all of that was infinitely more justified then the slyvanas/jailer otp crap golden is spewing out.

[Raisei]

There are other ways she could have been working for him then directly having a pact. Obviously she did not have her new shiny purple chain powers until recently, else she would have used them.

Maybe when she suicided the Jailer made her an extension of himself without her even knowing and everytime she killed someone from that point on send them directly to the Maw to strengthen him and at some point break his chains.

In fact I assume the sequence of event was about like this:

- The Helmet of Domination and Frostmourne were created and imbued with the power of the Jailer (it has been said that we will learn about their creation, which implies there is something we do not yet know), the Lich King was therefore the first extension of the Jailer and his aim was to kill as many people as possible. The Val'kyr served as direct liasons to the Jailer (a splinter group from the other Val'kyr).
Kil'jaeden and Ner'zhul had no idea of any of this, they were simply tricked. The goal was to feed the Maw and give the apparently shackled Jailer the power to free himself. But when Arthas was beaten, that plan failed.

- The new Lich King, Bolvar, was a disappointment, since he did actually keep the Scourge in check and actively became an obstacle to the Jailers plan.

- When Sylvanas came to Icecrown to kill herself, the Jailer saw a second chance and send her back with the Val'kyr apparently making a pact with her while in fact they were still following the old plan. The Jailer did make Sylvanas the next extension of his power, probably without her even realizing it, so that everytime she killed someone they would be send straight to the Maw.

- At an unspecified point in the recent past Sylvanas learned of this connection. Maybe through Helya or even later and she decided that it would be in her best interest to keep feeding the Maw as it would also strengthen her own power. Now openly working with the Jailer she attacks Ice Crown to remove the obstacle that the Helmet of Domination has become.

[Bigdoser]

Since when does wanting a coherent consistent story equate to caring how campy a story is? No one here (at least not me) is asking for WoW to become gritty low fantasy edgefests with biting insightful social commentary.

WCIII is campy as all hell (jinkies) and 'reverse king Arthur' and 'apes, together, strong' aren't highbrow themes but both work on their own and tie in together fine. Additionally characters in RoC are consistent when they appear in TFT.

Also I'm frankly not a huge fan of the illidan retcons in legion even though they were just unfucking the TBC story they admitted they screwed the pooch on. And all of that was infinitely more justified then the slyvanas/jailer otp crap golden is spewing out.

You are right on the money! Not expecting something huge, all I want is a consistent and fun story, that's it. Because blizzard are essentially destroying the factions and characters with their retcons to tell their "epic" story.