There is no retcon anymore.

[sam86]

"All that I am: anger, cruelty, vengeance - I bestow upon you, my chosen knight. I have granted you immortality so that you may herald in a new, dark age for the Scourge."
^straight from the Lich King's mouth.

how did i forget one of my most favorite quotes of all times, heck i have it right now on my phone since the days that phones were still idiot nokia sh8t...
my mistake

[Faroth]

I doubt the rift was always there.

The power of Death has been growing, especially during BFA with all the souls that have been fed into the hungry dark by Sylvanas. We see the Death Entity bound in chains, implying that he's been imprisoned for a long time.

Breaking the helm of domination and releasing the power inside it was probably the last thing needed to tear open the rift.

To build on this post.

With the Death Entity looking similar to the Helm of the Damned, they could even claim the Helm's power was drawn from the chained being and the Shadowlands could be a realm that's connected to all worlds.

[sam86]

That’s serious, and seriously messed up.

Can anybody get links for these interviews with Kodick? I’m curious in seeing how blunt he may have been about this.

his real name is Bobby Kotick, i write it wrong on purpose out of hate, this guy hates video game with passion, a simple google search will find u goldmine of pure anti-gaming hate interviews, and all were after he acquired blizzard btw, he then stopped any interview, mostly under pressure from his PR team because that guy can't hide his hate views at all, heck he even denies his grandson to play video games at his home lol
here one of many of his pure game-hating comments
https://kotaku.com/bobby-kotick-want...king-v-5359567

[Ealyssa]

So we learn that Lich King is the guardian of the rifts between two worlds and without him

No we didn't learned that. It's just you making a speculation.

We saw Sylvanas opening a portal by breaking the LK helmet. That's all. We don't know how, we don't know why.

Try to separate facts from your opinions...

[matrix123mko]

What if Kil'jaeden created a rift to Shadowlands and then made the Crown of Domination to seal it. This way Lich King could get more and more power from both worlds.

[Qualia]

What if Kil'jaeden created a rift to Shadowlands and then made the Crown of Domination to seal it. This way Lich King could get more and more power from both worlds.

That wouldn't make too much sense, I think. If Kil'Jaeden managed to get to Azeroth before Lich King was created, there wouldn't be any need to create the Lich King to begin with. I'm a bit curious why some of us believe that the rift was always there (or has been there for a long time) instead of something just ripped open because of the explosive release of necromancy / death power inside the Helm when it was destroyed. Doesn't the later sound much more likely?

[Powerogue]

This is just a headcanon we all accepted. The Scourge was defeated already at that point so it never really made any sense.

I'm pretty sure Blizzard just thought it sounded cool at the time.

It's happening though. The prepatch is confirmed to be us fighting the now rampaging scourge, presumably at least trying to clear a path into Icecrown Citadel for the Shadowlands portal.

[Odinfrost]

Did the book build it too? On both sides? And power it up on both sides?

Kel'Thuzad used the book to summon Archimonde. The remaining energy from that summoning was enough to force open a portal to Outland for long enough to bring the entirety of the Blood Elf civilisation AND Lady Vashj's forces to Outland. Would probably be able to have stayed open if it wasn't for the fact that they forced it shut from the other side so Garithos couldn't follow.

[formerShandalay]

That wouldn't make too much sense, I think. If Kil'Jaeden managed to get to Azeroth before Lich King was created, there wouldn't be any need to create the Lich King to begin with. I'm a bit curious why some of us believe that the rift was always there (or has been there for a long time) instead of something just ripped open because of the explosive release of necromancy / death power inside the Helm when it was destroyed. Doesn't the later sound much more likely?

Because of what Vol'jin says in his questline, I guess. He says in BfA that Icecrown is kind of a special gateway between Azeroth and the afterlife (can't remember the exact quote right now).
Although he could have meant that Icecrown is just the place where the realms actually touch and souls from Azeroth get funneled through here when they die on their way to the Arbiter. So not like a 'special' gateway, but simply the gateway.

[Qualia]

Because of what Vol'jin says in his questline, I guess. He says in BfA that Icecrown is kind of a special gateway between Azeroth and the afterlife (can't remember the exact quote right now).
Although he could have meant that Icecrown is just the place where the realms actually touch and souls from Azeroth get funneled through here when they die on their way to the Arbiter. So not like a 'special' gateway, but simply the gateway.

Yeah, Bwonsamdi said so ("Icecrown. It be more dan a pretty throne. It be an anchor dat holds dis world to da next, ya might say."). However, I think it's more likely he meant what you said - that the place was a special place where Azeroth and Shadowlands were close to each other (whether it was special from the start, or it turned into that because of Lich King's power or Yogg's doing over time is to be seen) - than implying that there was a rift waiting to be opened all along.

[formerShandalay]

Yeah, Bwonsamdi said so ("Icecrown. It be more dan a pretty throne. It be an anchor dat holds dis world to da next, ya might say."). However, I think it's more likely he meant what you said - that the place was a special place where Azeroth and Shadowlands were close to each other (whether it was special from the start, or it turned into that because of Yogg / Lich King over time is to be seen) - than implying that there was a rift waiting to be opened all along.

I think there is a rift now, but before there was a 'door'. A bit like if someone tries to break into a house and rips out the door and half the walls. A door at first, but now... a rift.

[Firedemon]

More like the helm always existed and Ner'zhul was imprisoned in it by KJ after stepping in the rifts and having his qulity time with him.
Then he realized the power and tricked the dreadlords thatvhe'll provide them with an army of death (aka scourge) while as it happened having plans of his own.

Remains to be seen how the helm got to be the gateway and when.

[Unholyground]

I can almost guarantee it was something before it was the Frozen Throne, most likely a titan facility.

[Golden Yak]

To build on this post.

With the Death Entity looking similar to the Helm of the Damned, they could even claim the Helm's power was drawn from the chained being and the Shadowlands could be a realm that's connected to all worlds.

Yeah, there was mention of a game feature called the Forge of Domination for creating legendaries, and lorewise it was the forge used to create the helm. Hopefully we find out about the events that led to the Legion obtaining it from the forge.

All told it almost certainly means that the helm was forged to draw upon the power of Death.

And yeah, the Shadowlands are the afterlife for every world. I think the parts we visit are just the afterlives for Azeroth. At least the parts we've seen so far.

[sylenna]

That's their own damn fault for hyping the spectacle up to 11 over the course of two expansions. Who actually thought we'd be defeating Sargeras and N'zoth back to back like this back in Cataclysm? MoP? Even WoD? They can't pace themselves and so they have to asspull new stuff that doesn't fit and try to hammer it into place disregarding everything it breaks. That's what we call "Bad Writing."

well, you have your big and established names like sargeras. looming over the story for so many years. getting rid of those big names to establish new and original stuff isn't that bad. there is only so much you can grow in this lore and still have a meaningful ramp-up to a big bad.

maybe the game can finally be free of the old lore shackles and introduce interesting new stuff whilst mostly staying true to itself. as far as i knew back in the day, nobody had written anything big about ragnaros or how he came to be, how we had to defeat him twice and what secured him a spot as a statue for the 15th anniversary edition. yet he is one memorable boss which we overcame, not knowing or caring about any lore or story. we just were there for the ride and we still could be.

instead, we heap hate upon hate on blizzard for bad writing, insane retcons, mary sues, bias and a disregard for self-established rules (i.e. chronicles from the titan viewpoint). why not just be there and enjoy the game? nobody is a certified critic of literature or whatever the story / lore of this game counts as. we all come to the point where we stop arguing, start enjoying and wondering a few years later why we argued in the first place. blizzard will go the way with their story however they want and negative feedback won't impact that.

[Hell-Nicø]

This is just a headcanon we all accepted. The Scourge was defeated already at that point so it never really made any sense.

I'm pretty sure Blizzard just thought it sounded cool at the time.

I mean, he's not wrong. That whole "there must always be a lich king" line always felt... really forced and pretty stupid (wot? so the scourge when lead by the LK are LESS dangerous then just left to their own device? So what, are we supposed to fear that a bunch of mindless squeletons just somehow take a boat to other continents or something?. It was obviously there to set up something that could be reused way later when they'll be ready to mine the LK mine once more.

It was the the kind of move Blizz has forgotten to do outside of their clumsy:

"Ho btw, yaknow the Draenor from Wotlk?"
"Yeah, the one that didn't really made sens to begin with, yeah the one that we are now just going to ignore forever pretending it never happen, yeah that one."
"Well, since we put a lot of work on the creatures of that planet, we decided to just pretend that they ALL came to Kalimbdor with the Magars."
"Yeah, so we'll just put them EVERYWHERE once the next Kalimdor revamp pop in 6+ years because apparently there's no enough indigenous races on that continent."

[Kharadin]

So we learn that Lich King is the guardian of the rifts between two worlds and without him, the sky is basically shattered and the barrier between worlds of life and death is shattered. So, before Kil'jaeden created the Lich King and threw him into Azeroth, there was no barrier between life and death,r ight? So The War of the Ancients looked completely different, with Val'kyr, etc. And why there are no mentions in ingame books about The Happening - like "A meteor just crashed in Northrend and now everything looks completely different! People that died just vanished! Sky looks strange, it's not shattered anymore!"
Or did they just retcon Lich King whatsoever and Ner'zhul never existed and Lich King was always a being of the Shadowlands?

Not quite, the impression I got was that the veil between life and death has become tenuous for some reason, mostly attributed to Sylvie's doings, starting the war, tree burning, genocide, etc. etc. and that's not including any other affects from her dealings w/ Helya.

And then, the shattering of the Helm of Domination - an artifact of maaaaad death magic - finally tipped the balance and shattered the veil entirely.

We can also assume another contributing factor is the Jailer itself wanting to break free, or whatever it is it's doing. And since all the deadbros Sylvie's been sending over directly to the Maw is likely empowering him, it kinda makes sense that the sky exploded 'cause shit's all fucked up.

[TheRagebear]

instead, we heap hate upon hate on blizzard for bad writing, insane retcons, mary sues, bias and a disregard for self-established rules (i.e. chronicles from the titan viewpoint). why not just be there and enjoy the game? nobody is a certified critic of literature or whatever the story / lore of this game counts as. we all come to the point where we stop arguing, start enjoying and wondering a few years later why we argued in the first place. blizzard will go the way with their story however they want and negative feedback won't impact that.

And this is the reason why we have such shit writing. Because there are too many people willing to just accept it rather than demand more of people who supposedly make their living off of crafting narratives. When did telling people to do their jobs become such a bad thing?

[Ihsan997]

his real name is Bobby Kotick, i write it wrong on purpose out of hate, this guy hates video game with passion, a simple google search will find u goldmine of pure anti-gaming hate interviews, and all were after he acquired blizzard btw, he then stopped any interview, mostly under pressure from his PR team because that guy can't hide his hate views at all, heck he even denies his grandson to play video games at his home lol
here one of many of his pure game-hating comments
https://kotaku.com/bobby-kotick-want...king-v-5359567

What the hell...is anybody else reading this?

I checked his Wikipedia article which seems to be written by a stock advisor or something. He’s obviously a smart businessman, but that quote above is shocking as hell. If he’s in charge, then that explains a LOT.

[rhorle]

What the hell...is anybody else reading this? I checked his Wikipedia article which seems to be written by a stock advisor or something. He’s obviously a smart businessman, but that quote above is shocking as hell. If he’s in charge, then that explains a LOT.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ac.../1100-6226758/

Gives a better context of the quote from the poorly reported kotaku article (they link the gamespot as a source but cherry pick what they want). It was essentially a statement on making the studios focus on the business rather then needless spending on "fun" during the recession.