Shadow Lands feels like a maintenance expansion [Extensive]

[HCLM]

Sylvanas somehow manages to single handedly dispatch the new lich king with out breaking a sweat. Whether this is because Bolvar is a chump, or Sylvanas is mysteriously overpowered, empowered by some "unknown force" *yawn*, we don't really know.

Another guy who didn't even bother to check why Sylvanas beat Bolvar. Tip: She was using the same type of power, but much more powerful. Also noone ever said that it's hard to destroy Helm of Domination. Noone ever tried to destroy it in the first place, and you're just assuming it shouldn't be easy since it's an artifact. Like most of your post are only assumptions anyway. You created this post based on not confirmed (and mostly incorrect) information, and your own assumptions as things may or may not work. You didn't even bother to write Shadowlands properly...

[Raone]

I wouldn't bet on that.

AP went from Legion to BFA when it shouldn't have.

Anima is the new AP, renamed, reimplemented, but the same concept: A resource you collect to increase your power.

They already went into depths that it won't be an AP grind. AP grind didn't have limits and over time AK decreased the grind but the never ending grind was ALWAYS there.

They said Anima will have caps that will be easily achieved (they even specifically said like the old Valor caps) and any extra Anima you gather for the week (if you choose to get more) you can spend on cosmetics and other things. From what I gathered you can grind Anima if choose but you can only spend X amount of Anima on power progression each week (which they said won't take much time).

Like I said and they said, its more akin to the Valor Cap system in MoP.

[zolfare]

This will be my take on what the OP created:

I. Covenants / Soulbinds
II. Races/Classes
III. Torghast / Maw
IV. Lore/Story
V. Leveling / Alts


-------------------------------------------

I. Covenant / Soulbinds:
This honestly is a really interesting system to me. It takes the greatest part about artifact weapons and combines it with, what seems to be, the greatest parts about essences from BfA. As long as the choices are interesting and we are given a great deal of time to make a proper choice on what covenant we want to belong to and which character we soulbind to (sounds like we will), then it will be a great success.

I see the OP was confused about the AP grinding thing with Anima, so I would like to point out that Ian confirmed there will be no new AP grind of any kind in this expansion. This is a huge deal to me as it was one of the reasons I quit playing BfA.


II. Races/Classes:
I really wish they would have gone more in depth into what kinds of changes classes are getting. I realize they said they are trying not to go too far with changing things, and it makes sense, but I feel like I wanted just a bit more done with them than what was announced. Either way getting totems back (perma totems) is going to be fantastic as a shaman. I will love playing warlock as my first alt as well. Seeing a return to curses like curse of doom and ritual of doom and what not is going to be awesome. I definitely see this as being just the push we need to feel that class identity come back a bit, and hopefully if we still want a bit more of it they will keep it going down the line.

III. Torghast/Maw:
These features sound fun as F#$@!!!! The Maw is exactly what I am looking for in an end-game zone where there is no suramar-style story questline (but there will probably be quests of some form), and there is danger around every corner. I love it. As for the tower.... I mean who doesn't love roguelike dungeons!? As long as the map is actually randomized and we are given interesting choices is power upgrades (which the ones they showed were pretty cool) it is going to be a fantastic experience that I look forward to.

IV. Lore/Story:
This is probably the best the story has been (to me) since WotLK. I love how we are finally getting to explore the lore behind life and death. Hell, we get to literally explore the place where death knights draw their power. Sylvanas has been a mystery for a while now, and now that the mystery starting to lift, her character feels like more depth is being added to it, and I love it.

There is one major issue I had with the announcements regarding the story/lore and that is the fact that horde vs alliance is always going to be a major topic in the game. I am tired of Horde vs Alliance at this point. We need something new. Allow us to move on from that story and sink our teeth into other faction wars such as the living vs the dead, or void vs light. SOMETHING FFS!!! Anyway, that is my only issue with the story/lore.... yes even retcons I do not mind as long as they are well done.

V. Leveling/Alts:
The new leveling/alts is perfect in theory. I see no issues. Hopefully it works as advertised.

[Gurahk]

I wouldn't bet on that.

AP went from Legion to BFA when it shouldn't have.

Anima is the new AP, renamed, reimplemented, but the same concept: A resource you collect to increase your power.

Yes, we are. They're just going to re-brand it as something else, don't be so naive. They didn't add AP in the first place because they thought it would be a fun feature, they did it because it forces players to log on more often/stay online longer.

They're not going to get rid of it, lolololol.

They literally confirmed the AP grind is not coming back, and gave reasons why it's not

[Vynlann]

I was banking on getting shadowlands but after reading your post you bring up a lot of good points, it genuinely concerns me. I'm hopeful that the news over the next few months will be good, and the wow community has gotten pretty good at determining whether or not what we're getting is worth it if you know how to view it. So with that said, I'm still considering getting it, but my hopes for it dropped a bit. I really hope the development team listens, the classes are the biggest problem and you're right, they're locking themselves in this game where "we can't do major class changes unless it's an expansion" is complete and utter bullshit. They set that fake wall for themselves. If classes improved in 8.1 or 8.2 or even the 0.5 patches, we'd be happy but they didn't. It's just pathetic. It's the reason I quit playing bfa 3 weeks after launch, again after playing for the first month of BoD raid, and if it doesn't feel like it improved again after recently resubbed, I'll drop my sub yet again.

[Hyral]

My first thought, and post, when info about the expac was coming out was the same; WoW is on maintenance mode. I've played too many MMOs not to notice it at this point. Though to me it's been that way for a little while now, Legion setting up the foundation for it.

Though I know plenty will disagree about my take on Legion, that's irrelevant, in the end I am glad it seems more people are noticing what's happening now. Too many have been giving Blizzard free passes just due to the strength of their brand and their past successes and simply buying anything they put out. Irresponsible consumers are the bane of progress in any market and that's what's happened MMOs. Hopefully it can change.

[Alcsaar]

Another guy who didn't even bother to check why Sylvanas beat Bolvar. Tip: She was using the same type of power, but much more powerful. Also noone ever said that it's hard to destroy Helm of Domination. Noone ever tried to destroy it in the first place, and you're just assuming it shouldn't be easy since it's an artifact. Like most of your post are only assumptions anyway. You created this post based on not confirmed (and mostly incorrect) information, and your own assumptions as things may or may not work. You didn't even bother to write Shadowlands properly...

Apparently you didn't even bother to read the first 3 sentences of the post which clearly stated that it as speculation and my own personal opinions and biases.

I also said that I know no one had tried to destroy it before, but I still felt like, from a solid lore perspective, an artifact with that much power wouldn't be easily destroyable. Frostmourne was only destroyed by Ashbringer, for example.

[therealstegblob]

They literally confirmed the AP grind is not coming back, and gave reasons why it's not

AP Grind is still here, just in a different format. I'm not having this absolutely retarded splitting hairs discussion with you.

[Alcsaar]

They literally confirmed the AP grind is not coming back, and gave reasons why it's not

Blizzard confirms and promises a lot of things during announcements, not all of which end up being true.

[toffmcsoft]

From what I've gathered in videos and on forums, wow hasn't really been innovative or fun in a very long time. I doubt this expansion will change that.

Diablo 4 looks promising though! Maybe I should give D3 a shot; is it any good?

Exactly why Classic has become the popular choice.
Once TBC drops, there's no question which version of wow will prevail.

[Dailoz]

I totally agree Alcsaar. To me, this is the most disappointed I've ever been with the game. It just sucks to put 14 years of your life into a game and just have developers be blind to it's issues. I've been super positive about the game in the past, and largely thought that Shadowlands was going to fix alot of the issues BFA faced. It seems like another BFA, and It looks like i might take the next 3-4 years off for this game, which I REALLY don't want to. This sucks!

[Black Goat]

I get the point of this is to discuss it. But what I never understand is how someone is able to draw such precise, negative feedback from features we barely know anything about. You lost me when you directly compared Covenants/Soulbinds etc. to Class Halls and that jazz, but I did read the rest of your post. For instance when you say it's not "innovative or new". You don't know that. You don't know if they innovate or if it's ENTIRELY new. You decided it's like Artifacts/Class Halls, and you're merely ASSUMING it won't be innovative or new. Like, we know VERY little about those features. How are you even making that connection and speculating to the degree you are about it? It just reeks of bullshit, to me.

This is a trigger happy assessment of something that has much more development coming. But sure, if that type of discussion is what you're looking for, this is an apt example of it.

I didn't go to Blizzcon, so I may be missing some info those who did attend are aware of. But it won't take much to be better than the garbage that is Battle for Azeroth.

People have been raving for customization and class balance. I like that they are adding more character customization. In my opinion WoW is extremely lacking in this area for the era of games we live in today. If they do this right, I feel like it'd be a huge hit with the playerbase. I also like that they decided against a new class. Tinker, Necromancer, and Dark Ranger (the popular choices with fans) felt forced for the sake of simply adding a new class. If current classes are shit (which they are, playstyle wise), the last thing I want is them to feel they need to pile more shit on top. What's currently there needs attention, so I hope they deliver on that front instead.

I mean, unless I'm mistaken, the rest of the information is pretty vague about locations and how things will work in general. This isn't an attack on the OP, but more an attack on the fact that people want to be outraged about anything these days. Merely for the sake of outrage and attention. The OP feels like he wants to be outraged about something he/she knows very little about. I suppose that shouldn't surprise me in 2019.

I just can't see how someone could make such a negative post with the vague, preview-style info we have. It's negativity for the sake of negativity. False-correlations and logical fallacies are being made to support it.

[Scrysis]

I feel you here, *but* I have to retort with this suggestion, as it's how I've dealt with talents and the like for years now:

Good enough is good enough.

It is Blizzard's job to make everything good enough on the axis of covenant. Choose your covenant for character concept, and if you feel less powerful, give feedback. Life's too short to be fretting if a 0.0001% power gain can be obtained by binding your necro concept character to pretty fae land. Play your character. 99.999% of the people reading this forum aren't on the tier where betraying concept for numbers will matter. If your friends demand you do that, find better friends. The people that will make that choice don't play with friends, they play with coworkers, and WoW is their job.

Good enough is good enough. That's why it's called good enough, because it is, indeed, good enough.

Thank you.

It's not a maintenance expansion. "Maintenance" in regards to games means that they just keep the status quo going. That is very clearly NOT what is going on here. There are several new things going on here, as well as a few major overhauls. All of that takes development time, and development time is limited. You know that ability to level in whatever expansion you want, and then talk to Chromie to revert it for farming? That and the level squish are a HUGE undertaking. Torgast was probably also pretty labor intensive since wow is designed to have constantly shifting layouts of anything. That's a lot of programmer time. All those extra fun covenant cosmetics took artist time. So do all of those new race customizations. Tinker doesn't fit the current theme of the expansion, and they might have worried that necromancer would be too similar. It would not surprise me if additional races were added, but those are a fairly easy thing for later.

Rather than work on flashy stuff, they're working on core gameplay and reward mechanics to make them better. And that is FAR more important than flash. The core game is what will keep the game alive for years to come, not an extra class or race added because you wanted it there.


tl;dr -- Development time is limited. If you can't see the magnitude of the work being done or its significance, you're rather short-sighted.

[Shakana]

Thank you.

It's not a maintenance expansion. "Maintenance" in regards to games means that they just keep the status quo going. That is very clearly NOT what is going on here. There are several new things going on here, as well as a few major overhauls. All of that takes development time, and development time is limited. You know that ability to level in whatever expansion you want, and then talk to Chromie to revert it for farming? That and the level squish are a HUGE undertaking. Torgast was probably also pretty labor intensive since wow is designed to have constantly shifting layouts of anything. That's a lot of programmer time. All those extra fun covenant cosmetics took artist time. So do all of those new race customizations. Tinker doesn't fit the current theme of the expansion, and they might have worried that necromancer would be too similar. It would not surprise me if additional races were added, but those are a fairly easy thing for later.

Rather than work on flashy stuff, they're working on core gameplay and reward mechanics to make them better. And that is FAR more important than flash. The core game is what will keep the game alive for years to come, not an extra class or race added because you wanted it there.


tl;dr -- Development time is limited. If you can't see the magnitude of the work being done or its significance, you're rather short-sighted.

Agreed That's something i have been saying for some time now

[Adoxe]

As it should be. BFA damaged the game and so far Shadowlands is fixing it in the best ways.

[Shakana]

All i know aswell is that blizzard has been debating in getting necromancer class since even vanilla. There's a video of them on a presentation talking about it, and deciding to not add to the game yet. And they added dks because i mean, WC3. Ofc. But still they have been debating that for a long time, i thought this was it, but i moved on from that, i'm pretty happy i can feel relieved about my alts and many others things they announced, in my gameplay will be so much more enjoyable and trying new systems, like the covenant abilities, they seem interesting.

- - - Updated - - -

As it should be. BFA damaged the game and so far Shadowlands is fixing it in the best ways.

About damn time! BfA made all that was in Legion that wasn't that fun or good, in something even worse. It sucked so bad. But Legion was so fun for me, BfA just really made me so uninterested

[Steelangel]

Its self-imposed, and I hate the idea that you have to choose between a power increase, regardless of how minor or small, versus a cosmetic theme. I don't think I should ever have to make that decision of knowing that if I go with the covenant I prefer the theme of, I'm actively making my character less powerful.

You need a way better outlook, because choosing between aesthetics, "power", utility, and "fun" is like 99% of life choices, and you can't get 100% in each.

[Skildar]

I was really hopping for a legion type of class overhaul and we got the same attention to classes that bfa did...
why are they adding back abilities that was once removed? To get closer to classic... why? To get classic players on retail.
I loved legion gameplay of most classes, and I'm now dreading to discover what gameplay awaits us for shadowlands...

[Rafalga]

Some of the sheep in this thread right now

[Khrux]

Another post by a drop in, drop out player hoping for Shadowlands to dangle a carrot for you to resub for a month and leave again.

Oh no, what will Blizzard ever do without your 1 month sub next year.

Your just another opinion on a forum nobody from Blizzard reads, echoing the same thing as the rest of this forum full of people that don't even play WoW anymore. Just move on man, if you don't like it nobody is forcing you to buy it and telling the equally jaded people on this forum about your dislikes isn't going to change anything either. Do it on their own forums or socials if you think even taking the time to write it is worth their attention or just contribute to one of the many existing "I'm underwhelmed" posts instead of creating your own snowflake thread....