Poll: Fastest boss clear of MC in 2019 starting from entrance

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  1. #41
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    Considering armor value on all the vanilla bosses are going to be at a lower value than what they were on private surfaces(which were increased on those), clearing MC especially 5 months after release, at 30min or under is definitely doable, easily.

    GRIZZLY prio, btw.

  2. #42
    I dunno, I’m thinking Dire Maul comes out Tuesday after New Year’s. Game will have been out for four months, the masses will just be starting to hit 60, seems like a good time.

    I wouldn’t be shocked if it was the first Tuesday in December though, I’d give that 20% chance.
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  3. #43
    I am Murloc! gaymer77's Avatar
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    I really love how people are so persistent that MC is going to be such a breeze just 5 months after Classic's launch and BEFORE phase 2 even hits. In phase 1 people have access to MC, Ony, and Maraudon gear. There is no world dragons. There is no DM. There is no PvP gear. There is no T2 with the exception of possibly T2 legs from Rag if they implement them at the start and T2 helms from Ony (which requires a long ass quest chain to even be able to enter her lair). There will be no ZG gear. There will be no world boss gear (Kazzak, etc). There will be no AQ gear. There will be no T3 gear. There will be no Thunderfury. There will only be epic priest staves & hunter weapons but no legendaries yet. Simply craftable gear & MC/Ony gear. Extinguishing the flames at each boss will require certain rep with the Hydroxian Warlords in order to even interact with the braziers to be able to summon Rag. I also love how people giving their opinions & proof of speed clears are using private server information, Naxx geared players, and/or T2+ geared players as their reason why it will be cleared in 20 minutes. You guys are delusional if you honestly think that MC cleared in 20-45 minutes in MC gear and/or greens/blues will happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roxyfoxy View Post
    healers can split in 2, one group regen the other heals.
    This is literally how every guild I was in during vanilla did their healing. Groups were split and would switch off between regen and healing. The only time all healers were expected to heal was right after the raid took substantial damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roxyfoxy View Post
    Blizzard decided to run with 1.12 itemization, which means that pre raid gear is much more powerfull than originally designed for. As well as player knowledge in stat choices have improved drastically since early vanilla.

    If you got a raid group all decked out in pre raid gear, you are already overgearing MC. With the exception of tanks.

    There are only a few gear pieces inside MC per class thats actually better than pre raid, still with the exception of tanks.
    Yes that may be true that there's a lot of gear obtained outside of MC that is better than MC drops but you have to realize that the majority of those were from dungeons that aren't going to be available until phase 2 and 3. The sets in Scholomance are great for casters but I honestly don't remember which patch added them so even those could be off the table until phase 2 when DM drops not to mention those sets don't have a high drop rate too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanderez View Post
    Honest question: Are we counting the pieces from Dire Maul? I don't remember what Blizzard said about that being available, but I could imagine that if DM isn't out by 1st of January 2020 then MC gear might look more attractive
    DM is phase 2 and more than likely won't be released by Jan 2020 because that only gives players 5 months to hit 60 and farm MC/Ony. Since the general belief is that Classic won't reset and more than likely will never see new raids/dungeons, why would Blizzard short people time playing the first tier of raids when BWL (what will be phase 3 not 2) was released in July 2005 and MC was released Dec 18 2004.

    Quote Originally Posted by proplays View Post
    doesnt take very long to go 1-60 can do it in under a week if you play hardcore
    I bolded the pertinent information there. There won't be many "hardcore" players rushing to 60 for Classic. Most of the player base has moved on from living with their parents, having no job, and having no kids. The reason why the live game is turning "more casual" is because people don't have the time they once had when WoW was first released to play for hours on end each and every day. We have adult responsibilities now like jobs, kids, and "adulting" to do.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    This is literally how every guild I was in during vanilla did their healing. Groups were split and would switch off between regen and healing. The only time all healers were expected to heal was right after the raid took substantial damage.



    Yes that may be true that there's a lot of gear obtained outside of MC that is better than MC drops but you have to realize that the majority of those were from dungeons that aren't going to be available until phase 2 and 3. The sets in Scholomance are great for casters but I honestly don't remember which patch added them so even those could be off the table until phase 2 when DM drops not to mention those sets don't have a high drop rate too.



    DM is phase 2 and more than likely won't be released by Jan 2020 because that only gives players 5 months to hit 60 and farm MC/Ony. Since the general belief is that Classic won't reset and more than likely will never see new raids/dungeons, why would Blizzard short people time playing the first tier of raids when BWL (what will be phase 3 not 2) was released in July 2005 and MC was released Dec 18 2004.



    I bolded the pertinent information there. There won't be many "hardcore" players rushing to 60 for Classic. Most of the player base has moved on from living with their parents, having no job, and having no kids. The reason why the live game is turning "more casual" is because people don't have the time they once had when WoW was first released to play for hours on end each and every day. We have adult responsibilities now like jobs, kids, and "adulting" to do.

    Don't see the point in quoting the first one out of context, which was aimed at a very spesific situation with using a ton of warlocks.

    No, i'm not talking about DM gear or the 1.10 items, DM adds extra items that are even better, but the items from regular dungeons are really great with the 1.12 itemization.

    Set from Scholomance is horrible for casters, best gear for casters usually involve green stuff of + (magic school) damage plus some really great non set blues. but if you actually had read my posts instead of quoting them out of context, you would know that i already stated that casters are pretty bad in early gear. doesnt change the fact, that with the exception of some items, MC loot is also bad. better than pre 1.12 itemization, but they buffed both MC gear and dungeon gear over the course of vanilla, dungeon gear was just buffed slightly more than the MC gear so people would be able to catch up faster.

    The 1.10 patch updated almost all dungeon loot, the items that were added in that patch, wont come out until AQ patch, but all the items that already existed that were just buffed, will be available come classic release in their most powerfull version.

    As for the DM release date, it's hard to say really. but 5 months is a bit too much just for that little patch, and the honor system, if i were to guess, i'd say DM release would come early december. which give people one whole month of farming DM gear before the Jan 1st deadline the OP set. for the most hardcore people (Which this entire thread is about) will easily have farmed the gear they need.

    I bolded the important part in that last sentence, cause this entire thread is about the fastest speed clears, which will be done by hardcore players, and you making claims about how people have responsibilities, is totally irrelevant, cause this thread is not about those people. Nor does anyone care that people who are not hardcore does not play hardcore cause they are adults now.

    The hardcore community is much larger that what you can imagine, they are still a minority, but vanilla, can be played hardcore, with casual playtimes, many people are taking vacation days for the release, especially in europe, and when they do that, the people with more adult responsibilities during the afternoon, can still be leveling at a good pace, leveling up is the single most time consuming grind in vanilla, once that is done, you can do a more casual approach, and still be considered hardcore.

    A very common misconception about vanilla raiding, is that it require some insane amount of hours to be able to be a hardcore raider, it does not, in fact, there is noone who raid as few hours as the hardcores, cause they clear things faster than everyone else, they raid a bit more on the release of a raid, then they reclears the raids very fast the next few months
    While more casual raiding guilds, that do things slower, often take 2+ hours to clear MC, while hardcores are sub 1h, these clear times will vary a lot from guild to guild so take it with a grain of salt, once bwl is out, hardcores spends around 2-3hours clearing MC and BWL on farm, casuals might spend 4-6h
    Being a hardcore raider often means you need to farm consumes, while yes it take some time, you can easily farm things a head of time, so once naxx is out and you need a ton of consumes, you already farmed everything you need when MC and BWL was the only raids available and you had a lot of spare gametime to spend on such things

  5. #45
    77 has some good points, but there's a few things he missed. And roxy is right that we're not talking about the masses, we're not even talking about the top 1%, we're not even talking about the world's best guild on a bad day, we're talking about the ONE SINGLE FASTEST RUN 2019.

    --Abilities do way more damage in patch 1.12 than launch.

    --The experience these players have at skipping trash...some of them have been practicing this for 15+ years. (Although it'll be interesting if aggro radius-es are different in classic than private servers, that could cause some problems.)


    There will be a lot of gear missing though, as well as the Darkmoon Faire buffs, I will give yah that. But I think they'll be able to manage a sub-45 minute clear.
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by sopeonaroap View Post
    i spent a little time with one of the 23 guilds that cleared naxx in vanilla. nobody was clearing MC and BWL in 2h. you're completely full of shit. that's private server numbers if you don't count the run from MC to BWL

    private server numbers don't compare to live, no private server was 100% like classic is going to be
    Yes they did. BWL was under 1h and MC was even shorter. Hell moving betveen raids took almost as long as clearing all of MC. You must have played in shit guilds if they took that long on farm content at that gear level. And if they cleared naxx they did not spend more than 2h in MC+BWL combined. No way.

    I never played on a Pserver.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by proplays View Post
    the fastest mc run was 19:47 pre zg so expect to see probably faster than that even considering private servers have buffed armor on bosses.
    They also have weird armor debuff interractions making armor more or less useless. Live wont have that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanderez View Post
    Honest question: Are we counting the pieces from Dire Maul? I don't remember what Blizzard said about that being available, but I could imagine that if DM isn't out by 1st of January 2020 then MC gear might look more attractive
    It is the same powerlevel but i think DM will be released later. But the buffed gear will be from day one. It wont be early vanilla level gear.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by sopeonaroap View Post
    i spent a little time with one of the 23 guilds that cleared naxx in vanilla. nobody was clearing MC and BWL in 2h. you're completely full of shit. that's private server numbers if you don't count the run from MC to BWL

    private server numbers don't compare to live, no private server was 100% like classic is going to be
    Can't have spendt very much time then, considering it was 150 guilds that cleared naxx during vanilla,

    My guild cleared naxx during vanilla, and we definatly didnt spend more than a hour clearing MC, and we did not do any of these speed clear strats that are used by private server guilds, so it would have tons of room for improvement.

    There was even a guild that was called Axemen of something, that took the record of clearing MC in what 30 or 40 minutes back in the days. Noone else was really competing against them though, would have been interessting to see the top guilds actually doing speed clears, but they had other things to do than preparing MC speedruns
    Last edited by Roxyfoxy; 2019-06-27 at 09:04 AM.

  8. #48
    People voting < 15 minutes for full run, when it takes frickin' 15 minutes to just run from the entrace to Major Domo.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by sopeonaroap View Post
    i spent a little time with one of the 23 guilds that cleared naxx in vanilla. nobody was clearing MC and BWL in 2h. you're completely full of shit. that's private server numbers if you don't count the run from MC to BWL

    private server numbers don't compare to live, no private server was 100% like classic is going to be
    Maybe I'm misremembering but wasn't one of the requirements for opening AQ that you had to clear BWL in an hour or less and it was really difficult?

  10. #50
    I believe you can do it on ~40mins on pre-BiS gear

  11. #51
    Fastest time I recall seing was ~33 minutes, and in the end credits they mention they could cut a fair amount of time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rUim7uPdPM

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    Maybe I'm misremembering but wasn't one of the requirements for opening AQ that you had to clear BWL in an hour or less and it was really difficult?
    I think that was 5 hours. You had to accept a quest from Vaelastrasz in BWL (you could briefly talk to him before you pulled him), then the timer started once your raid actually engaged him. Then you had 5 hours from that point to down Nefarian. That was part of the long-ass Scepter of the Shifting Sands quest chain. The chain does send you back to BWL more than once, but iirc, that 5-hour deal is the only part that has a time limit. If you fail you're basically screwed until the next lockout because you have to abandon/accept the quest from Vaelastrasz again.

    I never cleared BWL in Classic, but I imagine even 5 hours would've been pushing it for an average guild. I feel like 1 hour was probably impossible for pretty much any guild, regardless of gear/skill. It takes a few minutes just to run from beginning to end, even as a level 120 that can shrug off/1-hit kill all the trash and bosses without slowing down.
    Last edited by avitush; 2019-06-27 at 03:12 PM.

  13. #53
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    I picked less that 45 min, because that would be the correct answer for every choice on the list except for the more that 45 min, so it is the safest answer. It's like bidding $1 on the Price is Right.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Propelled View Post
    Fastest time I recall seing was ~33 minutes, and in the end credits they mention they could cut a fair amount of time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rUim7uPdPM
    I think they are speeding up the video at some points, think its closer to a 45min clear, but they are doing some very time inefficient pulls, like pulling geddon back to garr room, which is totally uneccesary if you got players capable of running out of the group with the bomb, in addition to clearing much more trash than whats needed. So there is tons of room for improvement in that video. But they are also geared in much better gear than what we will have access to at jan 1st.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    There won't be many "hardcore" players rushing to 60 for Classic. Most of the player base has moved on from living with their parents, having no job, and having no kids. The reason why the live game is turning "more casual" is because people don't have the time they once had when WoW was first released to play for hours on end each and every day. We have adult responsibilities now like jobs, kids, and "adulting" to do.
    It’s interesting reading these months old posts and seeing just how wrong people were.

    To be honest, if I had to have made a prediction regarding Classic, I would have said the same thing: because of the older player base, thered be almost no hardcore players.

    It is shocking how many people on my server hit 60 and are now in full preraid bis with a smattering of MC/Ony gear. Married guys in their late 30s and 40s with transmute alts and double engineering for PvP — simply unreal.

  16. #56
    Mechagnome Storfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    I would put it at about 2 hours not 45 minutes or under especially if you're asking about by Jan 1st (5 months after Classic will go live).



    No its not. Any fight you see with him dying in 12 seconds is very outside of vanilla WoW time.



    Not sure what you're smoking but under 20 minutes to clear MC when MC is "current content" is pretty delusional. Hell even when AQ & Naxx were current guilds still took a full night to clear MC if they went back in there.
    I realise I'm dabbling in thread necromancy but I find this subject to be too interesting to not update.

    Current world record MC in P1 is now 28minutes. A far cry from those speculated 2 hours:

    “Listen... Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.” – Dennis

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by imfartingbois View Post
    It’s interesting reading these months old posts and seeing just how wrong people were.

    To be honest, if I had to have made a prediction regarding Classic, I would have said the same thing: because of the older player base, thered be almost no hardcore players.

    It is shocking how many people on my server hit 60 and are now in full preraid bis with a smattering of MC/Ony gear. Married guys in their late 30s and 40s with transmute alts and double engineering for PvP — simply unreal.
    I don't think he was necessarily all wrong, most of the player base has moved on and has jobs and responsibilities. The bit he missed is that the next generation is playing Classic, I play as a casual in one of the guilds that were/are tryharding speed kills and dps rankings in MC/Ony, I'm one of the oldest in the guild, loads of them are early 20s or still teens.

    It was always gonna work out this way, the playerbase in Classic and on the Private servers are for the most part a different generation to those who played in Vanilla.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  18. #58
    That video is so hard to watch...constant camera moving, cuts for no reason, random twitter flaming...
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  19. #59
    Probably around 30 minutes and that's because it takes a lot just to navigate. No boss should take over 1 minute.

    But .. there's also the part where it takes a whole lot more chasing world buffs to make that happen which everyone is ignoring.
    Warlock soloing https://www.youtube.com/user/Firedemon012 (old & abandoned)

  20. #60
    Should be timed from zone in not luci pull with tons of trash pre cleared.

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