Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Endus]

Literally the fucking WORST.

Trump rejects Native American Heritage Month, proclaims November “National American History and Founders Month.”

Yet another log on the "racist fuckwad" pile.

He can't even claim this is about the Democrats. Native American Heritage Month was instituted by George H. W. Bush, in 1990.

[Benggaul]

Yet another log on the "racist fuckwad" pile.

He can't even claim this is about the Democrats. Native American Heritage Month was instituted by George H. W. Bush, in 1990.

Aww he's not being racist. Obviously this is out of jealousy. After all, Native American casinos are profitable.

But seriously, fuck that guy. The next Democratic President is going to be spending their entire term reversing every single outrage this buffoon has committed.

[Xeones]

Aww he's not being racist. Obviously this is out of jealousy. After all, Native American casinos are profitable.

But seriously, fuck that guy. The next Democratic President is going to be spending their entire term reversing every single outrage this buffoon has committed.

The damage he has done to our diplomacy is going to last for at least a generation. It's not as simple as one term to fix the damage this Russian agent has done.

[Benggaul]

The damage he has done to our diplomacy is going to last for at least a generation. It's not as simple as one term to fix the damage this Russian agent has done.

Oh I'm not even talking about the damage he's done; I'm just referring to reversing his idiot policies and declarations. He has forever tarnished what little good will any other nation in the world might have had towards the US at this point.

[jeezusisacasual]

The damage he has done to our diplomacy is going to last for at least a generation. It's not as simple as one term to fix the damage this Russian agent has done.

I doubt that honestly. I think during the next financial downturn during the next administration will be the best building block to work with. If the nations did not treat him like the clown car he is then i would agree with you.

[Crispin]

The damage he has done to our diplomacy is going to last for at least a generation. It's not as simple as one term to fix the damage this Russian agent has done.

This is probably true. Trump was elected by the American people, in the long term they are the "issue" not Trump.

[Xeones]

I doubt that honestly. I think during the next financial downturn during the next administration will be the best building block to work with. If the nations did not treat him like the clown car he is then i would agree with you.

My main point is any nation will likely go into deals with us with trepidation, when an ass clown who lost the popular vote can just come in and break them. Deal making is going to be much harder because they won't be able to have faith in the American people to pick competent leaders.

[Benggaul]

This is probably true. Trump was elected by the American people, in the long term they are the "issue" not Trump.

No, he was elected by the Electoral College. The people chose Hillary.

[Kaleredar]

My main point is any nation will likely go into deals with us with trepidation, when an ass clown who lost the popular vote can just come in and break them. Deal making is going to be much harder because they won't be able to have faith in the American people to pick competent leaders.

The democrats would do well to start moving forwards on legislation that makes it more difficult for the president to make unilateral, long-lasting foreign policy decisions alone. Or, more specifically, ones that allow them to just dispose of long-lasting foreign policy decisions on a whim. Like ditching the Kurds, for one. That's one ally that Trump dropped like a hot potato (right into the waiting arms of the Russians, no less)

A Trump defeat will see a very self-sorry republican party, and probably one that's very wary of Democrat retribution. They'd probably welcome oversights on the president at that point.

[Skroe]

So Trump formally began the process to withdraw from the Paris Climate Change Agreement.

First, let's just get this out of the way by saying it is a terrible decision to do so. Not only does it hurt he fight against climate change, but is yet another ignorant and pointless geopolitical set back for the United States. Climate is the leading issue for most countries in the world. They want us to lead on it. We should lead on it. Trump said "fuck off". That's going to go over real well in the future when we need them.

Secondly, I gotta flip this around the other direction. Hopefully this, along with the US quitting the Iran Deal, slaughters for good this insane notion that Executive Agreements are any kind of replacement for treaties. They aren't. And it's insane to pretend they are. Exactly what was predicted would happen - that a future President would decide to withdraw - did happen. And for all of the Obama Administration's schemes at making that complicated, the Trump regime just shrugged its shoulders.

I opposed the Paris Accord because it was a flawed agreement that did not nearly do enough to rope in China and developing countries, but largely because I was (an still am) deeply uncomfortable with the process the Obama Administration went about it with. The Constitution is quite clear. A treaty requires ratification of the Senate by a 2/3rds majority. That means 67 votes. Obama didn't try. Instead he agreed to an executive agreement while his lackeys, chief among them the odious Ben Rhodes, intentionally clouded the issue by calling the Accord a "Treaty" and utilizing words like "Ratify". This was no innocent misuse of language. This was an attempt to create a reality where the US entered a de facto treaty, just without Senate approval.

It's all a load of shit and I'm glad it failed. Because no matter the crisis - and that includes climate change - the foundation of our system of government is that process legitimizes. Not people. Not cause. Every person thinks their cause is the most urgent. That's nothing new. But only through the nature process is the national response legitimized or not. For the folks who are going to respond "Well then I hope you enjoy living on Venus Skro, because Climate Change...". Yeah. What's your point exactly? How we a democratic people, manage our affairs is every bit as important as CO2 levels. CO2 levels being high or low concern if Earth will remain habitable for human life. How we govern ourselves concerns the manner in which that human life perpetuates itself. 5000 years of Civilization have yielded in just the last 200-ish the conception that the law and the process legitimize in democratic countries. Not divine right. Not because some subset of the society deems it important without going through a process.

Moral of the story, don't be like Donald Trump and break or otherwise try to get around the fucking rules. A giant meteor of death could be headed to Earth and the space shuttle manned by Bruce Willis still has to go through the Congressional approporiations process.

If you don't like this doctrinaire approach to the rules, first you are how Trump happened. Second, democracy ain't for you and you might be happier in an authoritarian regime that mirrors your values, because it really sucks when the shoe is on the other foot. See Trump and his wall funding schemes.

Obama's executive agreement spit in the face of the process and is exactly in keeping with a serial abuse of executive authority, stretching back decades, that paved the way for Trump to do all the wonderful things he's done.

And you know what the best part is? It was pointless. Trump didn't even try and deal with Congressional Republicans on the Paris Accord (or Iran Deal). There was no negotiating process with them because he wanted a deal that was "untainted" by their demands.

Defenders of this approach usually say "well Republicans stone walled Obama... like they always did".

On this topic, horse shit. You are a liar.

First, we have discussed at length how Congressional Democrats came to regard the Obama Administration as basically a Democratic President In Name Only, due to the fact that the White House left almost the entirety of the negotiations to Congressional Democrats, who would strike up agreements with Republicans only to find the White House did not agree. Team Obama was its own team, and not part of Team Blue. And this is not something any prior President had done in memory. Bush, Clinton and all before all negotiated directly with the political opposition. That came out on many things, but chiefly the budget, and these two agreements. It's why after sequestration in 2013, Democrats in Congress took the Budgetary process out of Obama's hands for good.

Secondly, there was one treaty Obama did negotiate with Republicans. NewSTART. In this, he had no choice because START I (with Russia) was expiring and needed to be replaced via the formal process. I have lauded praise on Obama for NewSTART. Not only did working with Republicans produce a better treaty overall that has many stakeholders, his negotiating team also took Russia for all their worth at the dealing table. Really. The United States got Russia to agree to ridiculous things in exchange for comparatively little. It's a big reason why Vladimir Putin became Present again actually. Dmitry Medvedev (who was President at that time, having flip flopped as PM with Putin) basically gave away the farm to Obama and Putin reportedly couldn't believe it, but also had little choice but to assent.

Republicans had a high asking price for NewSTART. $1 trillion in nuclear modernization over 30 years. But that had to happen anyway. All those 1980s/1990s-era Ohio-class subs need to be replaced starting in the late 2020s. The 1960s-era Minuteman III should be replaced eventually. And reducing the types of warheads from around 9 to 5 will cut cost-of-ownership. So for Obama, the price for NewSTART was agreeing to what would have been appropriated for by Congress anyway.

The NewSTART process was champion-level foreign policy and champion-level domestic politics deal cutting. Which makes the Paris Accord and Iran deal process even more of a farce.

Would Republican's asking price for 67 votes have been high. Oh you can count on it. Sky high.

Out of the question? Hell no. Mitch McConnell and most Senators (i.e. not Rand Paul and Mike Lee) are interested in basically one thing: transferring Federal Dollars to their states. The Paris Accord coupled with a massive infusion of federal cash and giving state discretion over its spending, would have been sailed through Congress. We know this because Republicans were majorly hell bent against New START, until Obama bought their support.

Welcome to politics 101.

Now before I get dog piled on dare questioning the orthodoxy of how great and brilliant the PCA and Iran deal were, recall, I've said basically nothing about their contents. Which were deeply flawed. But far from what Republicans have painted it as, and certainly better than nothing. But this isn't about the contents. The contents could have been truly perfect. Or they could have been a collection of printed out internet memes. It's irrelevant.

In this country, process legitimizes. Period. No ifs, and or buts. And a huge amount of our fight against Trump is based on how his serial abandonment and abuse of process legitimizes him and his actions. President Obama, who was far better at sticking to the rules, did not follow the process. And what has happened, deserves to happen.


Next time Democrats, making it a goddamn treaty and get out of that dump truck of money to buy Republican support. Be creative. You'll find away.

[Gestopft]

This is probably true. Trump was elected by the American people, in the long term they are the "issue" not Trump.

If I was a foreign country, my concern would not be who the next Democratic president is, but who the next Republican president is. Is American foreign policy going to be stable or a see-saw?

[bladeXcrasher]

Deal making is going to be much harder because they won't be able to have faith in the American people to pick competent leaders.

To be fair, the Founding Fathers already knew this and instituted measures to prevent this from happening, yet here we are.

[Mayhem]

To be fair, the Founding Fathers already knew this and instituted measures to prevent this from happening, yet here we are.

Yeah, the founding fathers were pretty bright people for their time. Too bad their time was 200 years ago.

[Julez]

Made me think how amazing it would be if all the players took an knee when he gets announced. ^_^

Too bad that fantasy will never come true. Nick Saban took the team to the WH after they won the CFP 2 years ago. Every player on the majority black team went. Not one person skipped it and not one person knelt. In fact, many of the black players joined in with JK Scott as he led a prayer for President Trump.

Bryant-Denny Stadium seats 100k. On Saturday you are going to see 100k people standing and cheering for Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America.

[Kaleredar]

Too bad that fantasy will never come true. Nick Saban took the team to the WH after they won the CFP 2 years ago. Every player on the majority black team went. Not one person skipped it and not one person knelt. In fact, many of the black players joined in with JK Scott as he led a prayer for President Trump.

Bryant-Denny Stadium seats 100k. On Saturday you are going to see 100k people standing and cheering for Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America.

His past tenure with sports events does not bode well with him, what with... you know, all the recent booing.


Or did you think they were saying "boo-urns?"

[Skroe]

Bryant-Denny Stadium seats 100k. On Saturday you are going to see 100k people standing and cheering for Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America.

Well it's the South. Of course he is going to it. His political handlers probably searched for one game where he wouldn't be booed. I personally love how the UFC didn't even put the so-called 45th President of the United States of America on its big screen. You'd think such a vulgar man would be welcomed by such a vulgar "sport". Not so! Everyone hates Donald Trump it turns out. So they had him sneak in and sneak out like the rat he is.

In any event, Donald Trump is not tinkerbell. His problems can't be solved with clapping.

[Julez]

His past tenure with sports events does not bode well with him, what with... you know, all the recent booing.

Well it's the South. Of course he is going to it. His political handlers probably searched for one game where he wouldn't be booed.

His past tenure with sports is just fine, the boos are only recent. And what do you expect in a city that was, and still is (metaphorically) a swamp? He went to the CFP game in 2018, Alabama vs. Georgia, and no one booed him, and there were quite a few more people there than at Game 5.

It was awesome watching Kurt Suzuki, an Asian American no less, with his MAGA hat today. Also enjoyed watching Ryan Zimmerman and his kind words.

Guess that goes to show that not everyone hates President Trump.

[Skroe]

He went to the CFP game in 2018, Alabama vs. Georgia, and no one booed him.

Well yeah exactly... Alabama vs Georgia. Wooo. Go Trump.


Naw, just most people. And everyone with a shred of patriotism and respect for the Constitution and Rule of Law to be sure. But I mean, even the worst regimes, in any country, has their supporters.

Polls show Americans are pretty much sick to death of Trump and want him gone. The open question is can the impeachment process wing the electoral map to better reflect that over the next 6 months (my bet: an emphatic yes, especially once Democrats start trotting out public testimony and running ads).

But I honestly don't expect the Land of the Deplorables to turn on their orange lord. Ever. And that's fine.

It was awesome watching Suzuki with his MAGA hat today and also watching Ryan Zimmerman and his kind words.

Guess that goes to show that not everyone hates President Trump.

Yeah and if A-dude or a-few-dudes wear a MAGA hat and it meant something meaningful, Trump has long since been given the "golden" touch of Kayne.

And boy... how'd that work out for him. Oh that's right. 2018 Midterm elections.

Trump lost the confidence of the American people in his ability to be President a very long time ago. The only question left now is the nature of his departure and the size of the cheering crowds when he's gone.


But not to worry. I'm not going to get ahead of my self. We have a long time yet of racking the President of the United States and the people who enable him. The fun has just begun.

I'd start clapping at ol' Trumperbell.

[Julez]

The only question left now is the nature of his departure and the size of the cheering crowds when he's gone.

That one is easy to answer. He will depart the WH on January 20, 2025 aboard Marine One and will be taken to Andrews AFB where he will then be flown to Mar-a-lago aboard Air Force One.

[Orbitus]

That one is easy to answer. He will depart the WH on January 20, 2025 aboard Marine One and will be taken to Andrews AFB where he will then be flown to Mar-a-lago aboard Air Force One.

Yeah, you aren't a Nostradamas, and he will be lucky to make it there, with his sleep habits, eating habits, and his breaking of laws. He will either fuck enough Republicans over eventually that he will be impeached, or he will die of a heart attack.