Covenant pigeonhole

[Kralljin]

You’re comparing a covenant ability to a soulbind. Not the same thing, shouldn’t be compared.

Please read the entire conversation before making comments like these.

Matter of fact, i wasn't even the one who brought soulbinds into this discussion.

I have heard you can swap soulbinds with tomes, like talents. They didnt want you to swap covenants, nothing about soulbinds.

Source please.

[Sinfelle]

Because the majority of the people playing the game play for fun. You can already see it now, not everyone plays the "best" spec for Mythic.

Show me how many windwalker monks have killed Mythic Azshara (and DIDNT pay for it) vs how many shadow priest have cleared it...

[Val the Moofia Boss]

They had to remake talent trees and entire specs because the majority of us just can't stop min-maxxing. We're talking about people who wipe in normals refusing to bring other players because they're X spec or have Y talents. Our community has a real issue with it. Fact of the matter is, you've been able to complete all the content the game offers with any spec, talent set, race or class since pretty much Cata onwards (with the exception of some truly unintended broken stuff that doesn't last long anyways), but our community refuses to accept that. Everyone likes to LARP as a member of Method and act like their 0.003% increase is what their issue is.



If you're not at the top of the meters, you're last and therefore not viable!

TL;DR - I understand the worry. I'm going to choose what I feel best suits my characters regardless, though.

^

It's an insidious mindset that needs to die.

"You must come to the raid with ilevel 450 gear"... even though the raid drops 430 gear.
"You can't come to the fight unless you've watched all of the hour long Fatboss videos, and if you screwup you're kicked out". Even if it's on the week of release!
"Only classes and builds that are in the meta right now can come"

[Onikaroshi]

Show me how many windwalker monks have killed Mythic Azshara (and DIDNT pay for it) vs how many shadow priest have cleared it...

Warcraft logs is down atm, so hard to find info, but if even 1 has done it, it means it's not "impossible without minmaxing"

[Fistfighter]

Ok, idiots will always min max, that's nothing new, that's all the way back to Vanilla.

The rest of us can enjoy the game with only 90 percentil, we don't need to always be the top, as long as we are having fun.
The people who love minmaxing, and squeezing the most out of their character won't care about what the covenant looks like, they gonna pick Kyrian for that 7% dmg increase no matter what.

And if you are picking Kyrian because some YT guide told you to, but you don't really like it, that's on you for making the game unfun for yourself.

[Sinfelle]

Please read the entire conversation before making comments like these.

Matter of fact, i wasn't even the one who brought soulbinds into this discussion.



Source please.

I did read it. You’re the one that made the comparison. They person you were responding to stated that the covenant abilities are not going to be as impactful as all the soulbinds, which is correct. If you think any one ability is going to out shine an entire “talent” tree then you are sadly mistaken. So you should focus on how the soulbinds stack up next to each other instead of the abilities.

So yes, you have truly let your ignorance shine bright! Please understand all post and features before making responses like this.

[Oneirophobia]

^

It's an insidious mindset that needs to die.

"You must come to the raid with ilevel 450 gear"... even though the raid drops 430 gear.
"You can't come to the fight unless you've watched all of the hour long Fatboss videos, and if you screwup you're kicked out". Even if it's on the week of release!
"Only classes and builds that are in the meta right now can come"

Tell me about it.

"Link AOTC or no inv"

Sir, this is the headless horseman.

[Sinfelle]

Warcraft logs is down atm, so hard to find info, but if even 1 has done it, it means it's not "impossible without minmaxing"

Impossible, no. But I bet you that toon is min-maxed as best it can be, as well as everyone carrying his as through that fight.... because they are getting paid to

[Casperite]

Please read the entire conversation before making comments like these.

Matter of fact, i wasn't even the one who brought soulbinds into this discussion.



Source please.

They most definitely said you can easily switch soulbinds. Not going through the effort of source for you since it isn't that important to me. I just paid attention to the interviews and such.

[Kathranis]

There will always be an optimal choice and there will always be min-maxers who choose their race/class/talents/legendaries/covenants/etc. to maximize performance.

Allowing that to dictate what choices a player makes is also a choice.

There is never going to be perfect balance unless you want to completely homogenize the game and make the only choices purely cosmetic.

[Sinfelle]

^

It's an insidious mindset that needs to die.

"You must come to the raid with ilevel 450 gear"... even though the raid drops 430 gear.
"You can't come to the fight unless you've watched all of the hour long Fatboss videos, and if you screwup you're kicked out". Even if it's on the week of release!
"Only classes and builds that are in the meta right now can come"

That’s generally from the wannabe raiders. They don’t truly understand the min-max, the just regurgitate what they’ve seen in guides. Typically your pug leaders above normal difficulty, but not good enough for mythic. They will go 3/8M by the end of the tier and still call themselves Mythic raiders. They are the elite dumbasses

[Onikaroshi]

as well as everyone carrying his as through that fight.... because they are getting paid to

Careful, your bias is showing

Every single spec, every single class, can clear mythic WITHOUT buying it.

[Kralljin]

If you think any one ability is going to out shine an entire “talent” tree then you are sadly mistaken. So you should focus on how the soulbinds stack up next to each other instead of the abilities.

So you know all soulbind passives that are coming?
As a matter of fact, we currently 3(!) soulbind abilities:
1.Increase Parry chance
2.Situational Crit Chance
3.A heal proc below a given Health threshold.

Based on these three abilities, you simply assume that the remaining (we've not seen) suddenly are that amazing that they will surpass those active abilities?
That's a big guess on your part.

Is there at least a source that says "Yeah, Soulbinds are going to be the shit" that supports this theory?

Who's the ignorant here? The one who just assumes shit without any source or the one who takes things at face value?

[Sinfelle]

Careful, your bias is showing

Every single spec, every single class, can clear mythic WITHOUT buying it.

Replace every dps with windwalker and I can guarantee she’s not going down because the dps isn’t there. So if in some bizarre instance everyone actually wanted to play the worst dps spec, yes it would be impossible to clear.

It is through the efforts of others that that spec is able to accomplish any meaningful feat

[Onikaroshi]

So you know all soulbind passives that are coming?
As a matter of fact, we currently 3(!) soulbind abilities:
1.Increase Parry chance
2.Situational Crit Chance
3.A heal proc below a given Health threshold.

Based on these three abilities, you simply assume that the remaining (we've not seen) suddenly are that amazing that they will surpass those active abilities?
That's a big guess on your part.

Is there at least a source that says "Yeah, Soulbinds are going to be the shit" that supports this theory?

Who's the ignorant here? The one who just assumes shit without any source or the one who takes things at face value?

Are you forgetting how talent trees work? Has it been so long? The best talents are at the BOTTOM of the tree.

- - - Updated - - -

Replace every dps with windwalker and I can guarantee she’s not going down because the dps isn’t there. So if in some bizarre instance everyone actually wanted to play the worst dps spec, yes it would be impossible to clear.

It is through the efforts of others that that spec is able to accomplish any meaningful feat

Replace every dps spec with the same spec and it would be either impossible or much more difficult.... even if they were all the top spec.

That's not the point in all of this, you do not need to min-max to clear mythic, period. Some people find it fun and will, but not picking the right covenant will not preclude you from clearing.

[Sinfelle]

So you know all soulbind passives that are coming?
As a matter of fact, we currently 3(!) soulbind abilities:
1.Increase Parry chance
2.Situational Crit Chance
3.A heal proc below a given Health threshold.

Based on these three abilities, you simply assume that the remaining (we've not seen) suddenly are that amazing that they will surpass those active abilities?
That's a big guess on your part.

Is there at least a source that says "Yeah, Soulbinds are going to be the shit" that supports this theory?

Who's the ignorant here? The one who just assumes shit without any source or the one who takes things at face value?

Can’t tell if you’re trolling or just that fucking retarded that you need everything spelled out for you.

[Kralljin]

Are you forgetting how talent trees work? Has it been so long? The best talents are at the BOTTOM of the tree.

That wasn't even a given back when Talent trees were a thing in WoW.
So yeah, that's not necessarily a certainty.

And a lot of still could be just utility based, rather than output.

Can’t tell if you’re trolling or just that fucking retarded that you need everything spelled out for you.

Feel free to report me if you think i am.

[Onikaroshi]

That wasn't even a given back when Talent trees were a thing in WoW.
So yeah, that's not necessarily a certainty.

And a lot of still could be just utility based, rather than output.



Feel free to report me if you think i am.

Well, considering you listed a talent that is "higher crit on targets with less percent health then you" as situational... idk what you want, that's pretty far from situational, more often than not your enemy (in pve at least) as less % hp then you and it will be up almost 100% during the times it matters most, execute phases.

[Sinfelle]

Are you forgetting how talent trees work? Has it been so long? The best talents are at the BOTTOM of the tree.

- - - Updated - - -



Replace every dps spec with the same spec and it would be either impossible or much more difficult.... even if they were all the top spec.

That's not the point in all of this, you do not need to min-max to clear mythic, period. Some people find it fun and will, but not picking the right covenant will not preclude you from clearing.

True. Absolute min-maxing continuous class stacking and metas are not required as long as certain thresholds are met by the group. My point was you’re going to have hell of a time finding someone to carry your ass through that without paying, and accept the prejudice of the community when trying to get into groups.

[Big Thanks]

So you know all soulbind passives that are coming?
As a matter of fact, we currently 3(!) soulbind abilities:
1.Increase Parry chance
2.Situational Crit Chance
3.A heal proc below a given Health threshold.

Based on these three abilities, you simply assume that the remaining (we've not seen) suddenly are that amazing that they will surpass those active abilities?
That's a big guess on your part.

Is there at least a source that says "Yeah, Soulbinds are going to be the shit" that supports this theory?

Who's the ignorant here? The one who just assumes shit without any source or the one who takes things at face value?

Its a valid opinion that the talent trees may end up being less impactful...but IMO they will be more.

From the image i showed you, there are 11 choices.
The first one being a permanent 5% crit increase in PvE (HUGE)

I cant imagine how the entire tree will be less impactful than the 1min CD abilities.

But its possible. You may be right...bit i doubt.