Confirmation, Classic wow has "MILLIONS" of players.

[Protean]

Back when I was still posting in this board following the Nostalrius shutdown event, Blizzard Shills (or Retail Fanboys) in this board used to say something to the effect that:

"THE PEOPLE PLAYIN' ON PIRATE SERVERS ARE AN INSIGNIFICANT MINORITY NOT WORTH LISTENING TO OR CATERING TO. THEY ARE PLAYIN' VANILLA ON PIRATE SERVERS BECAUSE THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY A SUB. THEY COULD NEVER POSSIBLY FILL IN A SINGLE RETAIL SERVER BECAUSE THEY ARE SO FEW".

These very same people continue to post the same crap on this board 4 years later.

So disgusted of the Retail fanboyism on this board, which is why I stopped posting.

So you're saying every player on classic servers come from shitty third-grade pirate servers?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Most people definitely do not. But it's not only Method either. Around 1800 guilds killed Jaina mythic (the previous raid tier) and you need approx 22-25 people on average in a mythic raiding guild (cus of declines etc). So about 41 000 people cleared the most difficult content (which is probably some all-time low due to the state of BFA).

Clearing a full mythic raid is definitely challenging yourself, even if you do it a bit later. Normal/Heroic is also a challenge for some guilds.

LFR is probably your MC equivalent, barely any mechanics, it's more about people actually hitting their buttons than it is doing mechanics correctly.

Are you claiming "most people" in retail is 41000 people? Don't post when your heated. It's just a video game conversation. I am not debating which is better. Only pointing out challenge angle is way over played. Most players do LFR or at best normal mode and that's it in BFA.

[Relapses]

I always thought it was 42?!

42...sandwiches?

[Beefhammer]

I am surprised at the number of raiding guilds on my server and the number of people who have not got a current retail character in my guild.

I think it is probably doing great.

Tiny fraction of servers compared to Retail Vanilla. Of course there will be more raiding guilds per server. Plus, more people are interested in raiding now than back then.

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So you're saying every player on classic servers come from shitty third-grade pirate servers?

I doubt it. Most were there because it was free. I'm sure there is some overlap with those playing on private classic servers and playing retail that dove into classic.

[Flarelaine]

Even if they arent new subs, stealing a million or more from retail is a win for classic.

Considering the sub is one and the same, your comment about "stealing" subs makes no sense.

[Krille]

Are you claiming "most people" in retail is 41000 people? Don't post when your heated. It's just a video game conversation. I am not debating which is better. Only pointing out challenge angle is way over played. Most players do LFR or at best normal mode and that's it in BFA.

I'm far from "heated". I have no stake in this personally. I said "Most people definitely do not." (raid mythic), I think everyone knows this.

But it's not "just Method" either. There's a decently sized mythic raiding scene divided into brackets (1-2 day raiding, 3-day raiding, 4+ day raiding and so on).

I'm personally part of the 3-day raiding bracket and we monitor/follow/debate with other guilds that have the same amount of raiding hours, it's fun! Like we can compare us with other guilds we know and their progress over several tiers, it's the usual suspects, but sometimes guilds fall off or quit playing.

Most people raid LFR because it's convenient, they don't do it for the challenge. Which makes your whole argument kinda invalid, but if you come from heroic+ raiding and go into Classic raiding, you will think it's a joke challenge-wise. And those are prob the players that get bored after a while.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Considering the sub is one and the same, your comment about "stealing" subs makes no sense.

Very true. Its kind of why I don't understand the whole debate and anger over either. It's just good for WoW over all in the end. Play the one you like. I mean I play both. When a new patch hits on retail I will play it. When Classic releases a phase I hit it up. Very confusing why it has to be life or death of one or the other.

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I'm far from "heated". I have no stake in this personally. I said "Most people definitely do not." (raid mythic), I think everyone knows this.

But it's not "just Method" either. There's a decently sized mythic raiding scene divided into brackets (1-2 day raiding, 3-day raiding, 4+ day raiding and so on).

I'm personally part of the 3-day raiding bracket and we monitor/follow/debate with other guilds that have the same amount of raiding hours, it's fun! Like we can compare us with other guilds we know and their progress over several tiers, it's the usual suspects, but sometimes guilds fall off or quit playing.

Most people raid LFR because it's convenient, they don't do it for the challenge. Which makes your whole argument kinda invalid, but if you come from heroic+ raiding and go into Classic raiding, you will think it's a joke challenge-wise. And those are prob the players that get bored after a while.

Hey. Good news. I raid in mythic too on BFA.

I raid MC too.

I just am not invested in one game having to be better than another. It's just video games. Maybe people want to raid MC because they like it. Or for the memories. Maybe just to do it the first time. Sure, most people do LFR because its the easy road. But that is the point. BFA isn't played by most because of challenge.

It's probably played because its just a personal choice of people?

[Krille]

Hey. Good news. I raid in mythic too on BFA.

I raid MC too.

I just am not invested in one game having to be better than another. It's just video games. Maybe people want to raid MC because they like it. Or for the memories. Maybe just to do it the first time. Sure, most people do LFR because its the easy road. But that is the point. BFA isn't played by most because of challenge.

It's probably played because its just a personal choice of people?

Neither am I. And no one ever said people shouldn't raid MC. You quoted someone saying they quit Classic because of it lacking challenge, mainly responding to your comment about that.

Yes, and MC is sort of similar to LFR difficulty yes? The difference between the two games is that Classic (currently) only has MC, while retail has multiple difficulties, the option is there if you want to challenge yourself.

You can clear MC and every LFR boss in mostly green/blue items or the equivalent to that. So if people quit Classic because they feel like gear is pointless because there's currently no challenge, doesnt that make sense?

While if you only raid LFR on retail, you've got a looong way to go before you hit any sort of challenge-wall, so gear is still meaningful.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Neither am I. And no one ever said people shouldn't raid MC. You quoted someone saying they quit Classic because of it lacking challenge, mainly responding to your comment about that.

Yes, and MC is sort of similar to LFR difficulty yes? The difference between the two games is that Classic (currently) only has MC, while retail has multiple difficulties, the option is there if you want to challenge yourself.

You can clear MC and every LFR boss in mostly green/blue items or the equivalent to that. So if people quit Classic because they feel like gear is pointless because there's currently no challenge, doesnt that make sense?

While if you only raid LFR on retail, you've got a looong way to go before you hit any sort of challenge-wall, so gear is still meaningful.

It does lack challenge for the majority of people that only do LFR. Unless you are willing to debate most LFR players eventually work their way up to Mythic but I think we both know that isn't likely. For MOST PEOPLE the games are about equal challenge. One might not have an option for more challenge but the other one pretty much isn't motivated to have it.

[CostinR]

Which doesn't really mean anything.

And your 4-5 million for Classic alone has no basis in reality. You also won't see any numbers because Blizzard literally don't share sub numbers any more. Even if they did, they wouldn't tell you what each subscriber actually plays, since one sub gets you both the current game and Classic.

Monthly Active users represent the entire player base that Blizzard has across all of their tittles. Since classic is the largest release since the end of July it would stand to reason that an increase in users is from classic wow.

[Krille]

It does lack challenge for the majority of people that only do LFR. Unless you are willing to debate most LFR players eventually work their way up to Mythic but I think we both know that isn't likely. For MOST PEOPLE the games are about equal challenge. One might not have an option for more challenge but the other one pretty much isn't motivated to have it.

It's not always about what is readily available. Sure the LFR-players might never ever attempt normal or even heroic raiding. But the option is there IF they would want to challenge themselves. The same cannot be said for the current Classic raiding options.

Also, let's not kid ourselves, the LFR players of retail have not reached 60 yet on Classic and had time to get bored yet. The ones leaving because of lack of challenge is most likely the more hardcore players that speed-leveled their way to 60 and have been doing MC for a while already.

[Itori]

Id say it has close to 1m-1.5m players ppl returned to try it but how many stayed? Either way though 1m or 3m players is still far better than most mmos on the market right now, and thats something to take note of.

[Ishayu]

The fact that you think this sounds amazing is why Classic was made for you and not for people like Schwarzkopf. Contrary to popular belief, most people are not part of a hivemind and have different ideas and opinions about what makes a game great.

That's empty to the point of being a troll.

You know perfectly well that I am not flaming him for what he believes and he is not flaming me, either. It is already mutually accepted that we disagree, and that's fine.

I'm trying to dig deeper and to understand what's motivating this thought process. Why do people insist it's more fun to grind at max level as opposed to grinding at lower level? Far as I can tell it's all the same anyway, except in the latter case you skipped almost the entire game and now you've got nothing left except 10 instances you repeat until you're blue in the face. Do people prefer repetition?

[Krille]

That's empty to the point of being a troll.

You know perfectly well that I am not flaming him for what he believes and he is not flaming me, either. It is already mutually accepted that we disagree, and that's fine.

I'm trying to dig deeper and to understand what's motivating this thought process. Why do people insist it's more fun to grind at max level as opposed to grinding at lower level? Far as I can tell it's all the same anyway, except in the latter case you skipped almost the entire game and now you've got nothing left except 10 instances you repeat until you're blue in the face. Do people prefer repetition?

I can only go to myself. Grinding at lower levels doesn't feel worth it because you know that all the progress you're currently doing wont mean much at max level. Because for most games, the endgame starts at max level. It might not be true for Classic, where items from lower level dungeons can still be BiS pre raiding gear.

Blizzard solved the repetition problem by introducing m+, not everyone enjoys it though, but it makes every dungeon feel slightly different each week. Back when there was only heroic/mythic dungeons, you only did any dungeon if there was a weekly quest tied to it (like in BC and WotLK). It's sort of similar now, to be honest, i only do one lvl 15 key on retail per week (for the loot chest).

But there are people that push keys as their only way of playing the game.

[deenman]

Right. Sadly most people just que. Kill all the bosses in 30 mins. Watching paint dry as you call it and the sad thing is its not on a 15 year old boss. It's on the one they just released.

but,why are we comparing classic endgame raid to an anniversary little quick activity to get a mount?

[scelero]

That's empty to the point of being a troll.

You know perfectly well that I am not flaming him for what he believes and he is not flaming me, either. It is already mutually accepted that we disagree, and that's fine.

I'm trying to dig deeper and to understand what's motivating this thought process. Why do people insist it's more fun to grind at max level as opposed to grinding at lower level? Far as I can tell it's all the same anyway, except in the latter case you skipped almost the entire game and now you've got nothing left except 10 instances you repeat until you're blue in the face. Do people prefer repetition?

I like where you're going with this.

It's funny how someone said they're not part of the hive mind when it comes to video game, but every aspect of why people love or hate a game, is deeply rooted in the hive mind of those who play video games. How do I know, whatever reason you have for liking a game, is something someone else has said before. Nobody says anything original anymore as to why they play games. The gaming industry knows this and work off that hive mind of ideas. Which section of the mind controls more thought (in the analogy PEOPLE). What aspect of the hive mind do they want to explore.... Etc.

You might not be a part of the frontal lobe of the hive mind, but you are in that mind. You busy little bee you.

[Vampyrr]

So we have everyone guessing about numbers with half assuming one thing and half another.

We have classic players being mad at retail players bagging on classic.

We have retail players being mad at classic players bagging on retail.

We have retail players bagging on classic.

We have classic players bagging on retail.

We have classic and retail players trying to keep the peace.

We have people who play both who dont understand why people are so angry.

Did I miss anyone?

[Aphrel]

and next week Millions of players will realize just how bad blizzard servers are at handling many players pvping in the same place at once.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It's not always about what is readily available. Sure the LFR-players might never ever attempt normal or even heroic raiding. But the option is there IF they would want to challenge themselves. The same cannot be said for the current Classic raiding options.

Also, let's not kid ourselves, the LFR players of retail have not reached 60 yet on Classic and had time to get bored yet. The ones leaving because of lack of challenge is most likely the more hardcore players that speed-leveled their way to 60 and have been doing MC for a while already.

Well in MC you can choose to raid it with 15 or 20. You can make choices. But you don't count opportunity. You deal with reality. That is just how it is.

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but,why are we comparing classic endgame raid to an anniversary little quick activity to get a mount?

I am not. I am comparing it to LFR. Which is how most people actually raid in BFA. Most as in, the majority of people that raid happen to do it in LFR. Some people raid MC with only 20 and its a little rougher. But I wouldn't use that to discribe the challenge in MC. It just isn't a reflection of the actual community. Just a few. LFR on the other hand is the majority of raiders in BFA. Now I get that this might melt down into a "has Blizzard ever show you the numbers" debate and we can end that in a tie if you like because if that is what it takes to prove me right then it is what it takes to prove me wrong. But I think we both know its the reality.

But I will say it again. I enjoy both games. I play both games. It isn't a you must pick one or the other choice to me. I don't know why its so important to, I am assuming, you that it be that.

[Suggs]

Back when I was still posting in this board following the Nostalrius shutdown event, Blizzard Shills (or Retail Fanboys) in this board used to say something to the effect that:

"THE PEOPLE PLAYIN' ON PIRATE SERVERS ARE AN INSIGNIFICANT MINORITY NOT WORTH LISTENING TO OR CATERING TO. THEY ARE PLAYIN' VANILLA ON PIRATE SERVERS BECAUSE THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY A SUB. THEY COULD NEVER POSSIBLY FILL IN A SINGLE RETAIL SERVER BECAUSE THEY ARE SO FEW".

These very same people continue to post the same crap on this board 4 years later.

So disgusted of the Retail fanboyism on this board, which is why I stopped posting.

Same can be said about your classic fanboyism, pot calling kettle black much?