Who Should have Won LK VS Sylvanas

[Molis]

The community reacts too quickly.

I think its pretty obvious you are going to power up Bolvar over the course of the expansion and he becomes the new jailor of the Shadowlands.

There must always be a Jailor?

[Sithalos]

Bolvar should of wiped the floor with her, but her plot armor is thicker than the sun at this point, so w/e.

Sylvanas is the worst character in wow history.

At this point? Yes, I would have to agree. Any sort of interesting nuance she had has melted away in favor of a horrifically overpowered character that can get away with anything.

[WintersLegion]

I mean I dislike the character but they literally fucking told us how she became more powerful. You don't have to like it.

I'm not sure why people put the LK on such a pedestal. Bolvars version is basically the same as Arthas sans Frostmourne, a weapon that was shatteted by Ashbringer. To think the Bolvar wasn't combat saavy is retarded. Bolvar commanded armies as well and was what, acting ruler of SW while Varian was mia. Both spent years sitting on TFT mediating or whatever.

IDK, deal with it.

Yeah to me it seems as if people are conflating Lich King Arthas with Lich King Bolvar thinking well Arthas was strong so Bolvar is strong with out remembering that the whole point of Bolvar being the Lich King was to limit the power of the scourge which also directly limits the power of the Lich King while Arthas was seeking to empower himself and the scourge.

[Hero2Zer0]

I hate the way they did the cinematic, she def didnt have enough arrows for all those shambling scourge. Being out numbered by that many should've let Bolvar hit her atleast once, before she screams yourball nothing again.

Voted Slyvanas because she is Ions waifu. If metzan was still part of blizzard I would've voted thrall.

[CollaSama]

The level of the discussions on mmo-champion is abysmal to say the least.

Anyway, nobody said that Sylv should have lost. People are complaining because she stomped with ease, which made the combat boring. Her winning but struggling a bit against the motherfucking Lich King and his army would have been better, that's it.

[Beefhammer]

Bolvar should of wiped the floor with her, but her plot armor is thicker than the sun at this point, so w/e.

At this point? Yes, I would have to agree. Any sort of interesting nuance she had has melted away in favor of a horrifically overpowered character that can get away with anything.

You have been given all the evidence as to why Sylvanas easily defeated Bolvar. It all makes sense. It had nothing to do with plot armor, but rather an already powerful character doing shit over the last 10 years or so to become even more powerful. Nit to mention Bolvar only has the Helm, not the playe nor the sword, and he only took the helm to keep the Scourge at bay not gain strength.

[bullseyed]

The community reacts too quickly.

I think its pretty obvious you are going to power up Bolvar over the course of the expansion and he becomes the new jailor of the Shadowlands.

Maybe, but he isn't even dead yet.

I was thinking he'd probably have some "self sacrifice to close the rift" sort of deal. He's still infused with enough red dragon magic to tap into blah blah blah.

That all happened before Deathwing, so the red dragon magic he is imbued with is titan-blessed as well.



That and we had the whole thing with lying to his daughter about him being dead. So now that he has no reason to chill in Icecrown, presumably he will come home to see her. That's gonna be a boring story.

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The level of the discussions on mmo-champion is abysmal to say the least.

Anyway, nobody said that Sylv should have lost.

At least a third of the people posting in this thread say she should have lost...

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This is absolutely moronic.

You're confusing what "should" have happened with what "I wanted" to happen.

Welcome to MMO-Champ? This is literally what happens in every thread. If Blizzard does anything other than whatever 12yroldOP wants, they're "lazy and obviously Actiblizz".

Blame the moderators for not banning people making those kind of claims, not much else we can do.

[united]

You have been given all the evidence as to why Sylvanas easily defeated Bolvar. It all makes sense. It had nothing to do with plot armor, but rather an already powerful character doing shit over the last 10 years or so to become even more powerful. Nit to mention Bolvar only has the Helm, not the playe nor the sword, and he only took the helm to keep the Scourge at bay not gain strength.

Salty DK mains/Sylvanas haters will never understand because they'll refuse to. To them, they think that a mere undead paladin that's done nothing the past 10 years should beat an ex ranger general who's been growing in power every day. There are also those that are pissed that a girl beat one of the boyz in a fight.

Either way, Shadowlands was one of WoW's best cinematics, despite what people from these 3 groups claim.

[bullseyed]

lol maybe it would be even better if we had lich queen and not destroying the helm of damnation. seriosuly... no more lich king, that kinda sucks.

The "there will always be a lich king" thing was moronic to begin with.

1. A lich king only existed for a few years. He had been created within living memory of many WoW characters. There obviously could be a time without a lich king.
2. The scourge was decimated in the battles leading up to the final fight in WotLK. It wasn't really a scary force.
3. Bolvar could have just commanded the scourge to kill themselves and then take off the helmet at any point.

There is absolutely no justification for there needing to be a lich king. Some random old guy said it, but he literally just made it up on the spot. Mostly Blizzard just wanted to stick a burned guy into the armor because it was like Darth Vader and rule of cool.

[Balbuto]

Sylvanas ofc! It's their narrative, stop being negative. ^^

[Sesto]

Salty DK mains/Sylvanas haters will never understand because they'll refuse to. To them, they think that a mere undead paladin that's done nothing the past 10 years should beat an ex ranger general who's been growing in power every day. There are also those that are pissed that a girl beat one of the boyz in a fight.

Either way, Shadowlands was one of WoW's best cinematics, despite what people from these 3 groups claim.

a shame your opinion is wrong and the majority disagrees with it

[united]

a shame your opinion is wrong and the majority disagrees with it

Really? Because the OP literally created a poll where he said "let the fans decide who wins and not politically correct writers" and the fans still chose Sylvanas by large majority.

Bolvar got owned, the OP got owned, and anyone still this mad over Sylvanas is owning themselves.

[Black Goat]

Personally, I'm a huge fan of the LK and its role in Warcraft. But Sylvanas is the rightful winner. Let's look at some facts:

Bolvar - Human Male, nothing extraordinary about him in his mortal life. Was loyal to the Alliance and was slain in battle. Was resurrected by Dragonflame. Adorned the Helm of Domination to become the Jailor of the Damned. Did nothing truly significant while wearing the helm, power-wise or battle-wise. Although no doubt the Helm is important, he is a fraction of Arthas. No Frostmourne. No Armor. No teachings from Ner'zhul. Nowhere near the experience that Arthas had both prior and during his stint as the Lich King.

Sylvanas - A Thalassian Elf who is estimated to be over a thousand years old (her true age is unknown). At an early age she became Ranger-General, with a level of battle experience that Bolvar could not hope to match. (I know, human potential, meh). This is all before she becomes the Banshee Queen. Her death and transition into the leader of the Forsaken undoubtedly imbued her with more power. From here it's a pretty familiar story to most of us. She goes through a lot, fights in many battles, becomes Warchief. And then at some point, she bargained with Death itself. This is the huge power creep people aren't happy with. I think that's because it's mostly behind the scenes, but nonetheless, it happened.

Even as a LK fan, I think Sylvanas could have beaten Bolvar even before her power surge. Bolvar is just missing too much. But the reason she defeated him unscathed is probably due to the power creep. There's simply too big of a gap between their experience and power. People clamoring that the LK should have won I don't feel are considering Sylvanas fairly. After all, it's trendy to hate her because she's... female? I don't know. It's stupid. She's a bad guy doing bad guy things.

[Sesto]

Really? Because the OP literally created a poll where he said "let the fans decide who wins and not politically correct writers" and the fans still chose Sylvanas by large majority.

Bolvar got owned, the OP got owned, and anyone still this mad over Sylvanas is owning themselves.

who gives a fuck about power level nonsense. you said shadowlands was one of wow's best cinematics. obviously that's just a dumb opinion, the fan reception proves that is wrong

[bullseyed]

Salty DK mains/Sylvanas haters will never understand because they'll refuse to. To them, they think that a mere undead paladin that's done nothing the past 10 years should beat an ex ranger general who's been growing in power every day. There are also those that are pissed that a girl beat one of the boyz in a fight.

Either way, Shadowlands was one of WoW's best cinematics, despite what people from these 3 groups claim.

On one hand, disliking the "gurrrrrl power" story a bad writer shoehorned into BFA is respectable.

On the other hand, disliking Sylvanas because weebs like her or whatever hipster BS is not.



The core concept they're going for with Sylvanas is good. Some of the way there has been convoluted at best or dumb at worst. I'm interested to see how they try to tie in or retcon the other Sylvanas storylines from the last few years. But I think her motivations changed too drastically in that span to not be a retcon. She was all about finding a way for the Forsaken to reproduce and ensuring they had a future as her core driving force to suddenly swap to whatever power hungry motivation she is supposed to have now, maybe.

It would have been much better if they stuck with the original story where she discovered the Maw was broken and tried to fix it to save everyone, instead of now where she somehow is responsible for the Maw being broken because reasons. And in the meantime she had that detour where she was trying to make some tough deals to help us beat N'zoth to save the world, which seemingly got dropped halfway through.

I can only hope that this retcon isn't in response to whining on the forums.

[clevin]

a shame your opinion is wrong and the majority disagrees with it

Ummm the poll. has 60% for Sylvanas. You might want to look up 'majority'.

On topic:

a) given the expansion theme it was always going to be her or the barrier between life and death isn't ripped open and we can't start the pac.
b) ideally the fight is longer and closer but come on, it's a few minute long cinematic.
c) the real problem is that we had no in-game illustration of Sylvanas gaining so much power so players still look at her as the person who lost at Undercity and fled, not someone who can take on the entire army of undead at ICC and then easily break the Lich King.

[Raven]

Quick and simpe reason for why Sylvanas should and did win, no Frostmourne.

[Black Goat]

who gives a fuck about power level nonsense. you said shadowlands was one of wow's best cinematics. obviously that's just a dumb opinion, the fan reception proves that is wrong

Who gives a fuck about power level nonsense? In a discussion based on who is stronger, power level is pretty much everything. It is one of the best cinematics I've ever seen. No such thing as a dumb opinion when it comes to video game cinematics. Fan reception is nonsense, because fans aren't always the brightest and rational... like you.

[Sesto]

Who gives a fuck about power level nonsense? In a discussion based on who is stronger, power level is pretty much everything. It is one of the best cinematics I've ever seen. No such thing as a dumb opinion when it comes to video game cinematics. Fan reception is nonsense, because fans aren't always the brightest and rational... like you.

my friend, i hate to break it to you... but you are a fan as well

[bullseyed]

She's a bad guy doing bad guy things.

Citation needed, really.

Bolvar made this huge sacrifice right, to spend his immortal life keeping the scourge at bay.

Welp, Sylvanas just freed him. Gave him his life back. Defeated the scourge once and for all. Defeated the Lich King once and for all.


That makes her a bigger hero than Tirion Fordring and Bolvar combined.