Were there actually people who didn't like spec identity?

[willtron]

Ah, just what this forum needed. Yet another why-did-daddy-Blizzard-choose-to-give-me-candy-corn-instead-of-a-fucking-pony echo chamber.

OT: Class identity sucked in BfA and I'll gladly enjoy my new buttons if it means Tinkers never get added to this game.

Why the hate for tinkers?

[DotEleven]

Why the hate for tinkers?

Because somehow being able to play as Tinkers ruins other peoples time despite the fact that tinkers already exist in the lore.

[dojichan]

yes
/10char

[Garymorilix]

I totally agree with OP.

But sure, let's give it a go then: What does class identity even mean?

My 2 mains are a rogue and a druid. I actually play multiple specs on both and I don't feel any less rogue whether I'm outlaw or sub. Same goes for druid.
I have a hunter and a shaman alt that I also regurarly play. I tried every single spec they have and even the melee vs ranged hunter thing still feels like a hunter.
You got your pet, traps, hunter utility CD's and all that shit. You couldn't deny that you're a hunter at all.

You can add flavor to classes, like make every shaman spec use totems. That doesn't break the idea of unique specs as long as they use different totems (tailored for the respective spec).

Is an outlaw rogue more rogue just cuz it has poisons? Why? What does it add to the outlaw fantasy except another arbitrary button you need to press?
Cuz outlaw won't have talents for poisons, so why add another thing for them to manage after they already have their own buff system with roll the bones?
Do other specs get roll the bones then? Why not? What if I identify that as a "class identity" ability?
What counts as "class identity"? What even is it?

People throw around the phrase like it means something but it's literally not possible to define it. Because it's bullshit.
You expect a Fire mage to use Fire. Apply this logic to whatever you want.

There is a huge difference between being a Fire Mage and a Mage who prefers Fire. And I'd rather be a Fire Mage then some discount dumbass.

[Voidism]

OP doesn't seem to have played back in MoP, when Blizz had BOTH class identity AND spec identity. MoP was THE most balanced expansion in all aspects compared to all other expansions.

I wouldn't say the most balanced. It was the most fun though imo.

Fun >>> perfect balance.

[Skildar]

I wouldn't say most specs have an already complete build OR rotation...

not all specs have complete builds but those old spells can't complete those rotations :|
a clear example is adding ghouls to dk frost and blood. it doesn't add anything special if they don't rework the class so I'm anxious to see what they have in store for us

[Niroshi]

There is a huge difference between being a Fire Mage and a Mage who prefers Fire. And I'd rather be a Fire Mage then some discount dumbass.

No, there really isn't any difference at all. You're not using exclusively Fire magic as a Fire Mage as much of your utility is still rooted in the Arcane school. All that's really going to happen is Blizzard is maybe going to stop arbitrarily locking out random spells while returning a few old ones. You guys are losing your shit over nothing.

In general reading this thread makes me wonder if the break down isn't between players based on when they started. Like the dude below me talking about how if he has a Holy spell why is he a Shadow Priest. That is straight up how the class worked for more time than it has worked as solely Shadow, why is it suddenly alien?

[Amnaught]

I sincerely hope that they add talents that allow you to break into spec-identity. One of the examples of depruning they gave was a shadow priest, and how they might get flash heal back to replace shadowmend. Like, I didn't roll a shadow priest to sometimes cast holy spells, wtf? If there isn't a talent or glyph that lets all of my spells be shadow, why am I shadow?

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No, there really isn't any difference at all. You're not using exclusively Fire magic as a Fire Mage as much of your utility is still rooted in the Arcane school. All that's really going to happen is Blizzard is going to stop arbitrarily locking out random spells while returning a few old ones. You guys are losing your shit over nothing.

There is a difference. One of them casts Frost Nova, the other doesn't. It breaks immersion for me to cast ice spells as a fire mage, I don't want to.

[oplawlz]

There is a difference. One of them casts Frost Nova, the other doesn't. It breaks immersion for me to cast ice spells as a fire mage, I don't want to.

Then don't?

[Teddyfish]

There is a huge difference between being a Fire Mage and a Mage who prefers Fire. And I'd rather be a Fire Mage then some discount dumbass.

So Fire mages shouldn't have Blink, Arcane Brilliance, Conquer water, Counter Spell, Ice Block, Frost Nova, Invisibility, Polymorph, Portals, Spellsteal, Time Warp?? Because their not fire abilites...

The point is, your not just a fire mage. Your mage who specialises in fire, you should have baseline mage spells of all schools and then when you pick a spec you learn more advanced spells of that school.

Spec identity took away a lot class abilities and turned them into spec only abilities. It was a lazy way to create more diverse specs, and hurt most classes as a whole.

The point is we shouldn't have had to lose abilities to gain spec identity.


I see alot of these posts defending spec identity comes from mages, which isn't surprising since you haven't lost much from it.
Take a look at hybrid classes, Paladins lost a lot among its three specs.

[Deadc3ll]

36 piles of shit vs 12 well rounded classes that actually are enjoyable and make sense.

I'll take abilities and classes that are fun to play and allow me to outplay lfr idiots all day. Quit the game if you can't handle a bit of a challenge and go mobile.

Name a class spec that is actually fun to play and not an empty shell.

[Teddyfish]

There is a difference. One of them casts Frost Nova, the other doesn't. It breaks immersion for me to cast ice spells as a fire mage, I don't want to.

You want to lose utility and dumb down your spec because the spell animation and name isn't fire related?
Or you would you prefer you kept the ability and they changed the name and animation to fire to suit the spec?

[Onikaroshi]

not all specs have complete builds but those old spells can't complete those rotations :|
a clear example is adding ghouls to dk frost and blood. it doesn't add anything special if they don't rework the class so I'm anxious to see what they have in store for us

I think to really give DKs some thoughts back into their abilities they're going to need to separate the runes again >.>

Honestly never thought it was a good idea in the first place, was really one of those changes that was only there to dumb things down.

[Niroshi]

I sincerely hope that they add talents that allow you to break into spec-identity. One of the examples of depruning they gave was a shadow priest, and how they might get flash heal back to replace shadowmend. Like, I didn't roll a shadow priest to sometimes cast holy spells, wtf? If there isn't a talent or glyph that lets all of my spells be shadow, why am I shadow?

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There is a difference. One of them casts Frost Nova, the other doesn't. It breaks immersion for me to cast ice spells as a fire mage, I don't want to.

Then don't.

I don't really grasp where this logic is coming from man. Do you throw a fit because Counterspell exists? Does that make you an illegitimate non-Arcane Mage? PW:S is a Holy spell you know, how did you logic any of this out? Your Shadow Priest's HP buff for their party is a Holy spell.

[Amnaught]

There is a huge difference between being a Fire Mage and a Mage who prefers Fire. And I'd rather be a Fire Mage then some discount dumbass.

This, 100%.

I don't even actually care if the mechanics are identical, I want the spell effects to be appropriate. Shadowmend is more shadowy than Flash Heal and forcing shadow to use light doesn't actually contribute to class fantasy, it just makes me feel less like a shadowpriest.

[Logwyn]

I just want to be able to play a duel wielding survival hunter so I can be Drizzt again.

LOL>
Just kidding.

[Kieldon]

In some cases, I do prefer the class identity. However I really don't want holy spells to be half my abilities as a shadow priest. Hopefully SWD won't be a talent but a base spell. Most classes I'm fine with though.

[Amnaught]

Then don't.

That's not a solution. Marksman hunters who wanted to be a ranger without a pet before Lone Wolf was added didn't *actually* have the option to fight without a pet, they would have significantly less damage. Lone Wolf contributed to player choice and spec fantasy; give us something like that for all specs.

PW:S is a Holy spell you know, how did you logic any of this out?

They shouldn't use that either! How hard is it to make an identical spell with shadowy flavor? Embrace of the Void, it wraps your target in spectral tentacles to provide absorption.

[Relapses]

Because somehow being able to play as Tinkers ruins other peoples time despite the fact that tinkers already exist in the lore.

Thanks for answering the question for me.

Btw, it's because it's a stupid fucking idea for a class. Sorry not sorry.

[Amnaught]

I just want to be able to play a duel wielding survival hunter so I can be Drizzt again.

While we're here, it was an objectively shitty move for them to have Rexxar as the stereotypical Beastmaster dual wielding, then have an expansion announcement with a dual-wielding hunter, then add a melee spec for hunter and make it 2-handed