Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[PhaelixWW]

Personally, I think the Republicans won't break ranks at all during this. That's not to say that they won't necessarily vote to remove Trump, but if it comes to that, I believe they'll publicly support Trump right up until the moment they pivot as a whole to vote him out.

The only way they save face, as a whole, is as a whole, as it's unlikely that the Republican voting base can blame the entire Republican legislature for not being "Republican enough". I think Mitch is secretly using things like the Syrian mess to sow the seeds for a future break from Trump, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if he made sure that his people stepped out of the way prior to Trump's Syrian hijinks for that specific reason.

Or maybe I'm just ascribing too much Machiavellian thinking to Mitch, who knows.

[cubby]

The inquiry is almost over. Impeachment doesn't begin until after the House votes for it.

You're right - I just mean that the upcoming House vote is pretty much set in the outcome, despite many more processes to continue with.

[Edge-]

So...uh...Graham is trying out a new defense. The Trump administration is literally not competent enough to be corrupt.

"This is a political vendetta," Graham added. "What I can tell you about the Trump policy toward Ukraine. It was incoherent. It depends on who you talk to; they seem to be incapable of forming a quid pro quo."

Nothing happened.
Something happened, but it wasn't bad.
Something happened and it may look bad, but it really wasn't.
The bad thing happened, but it's not really bad.
The bad thing couldn't have happened because they're too stupid to do it.

This is the absolute state of things.

[Machismo]

So...uh...Graham is trying out a new defense. The Trump administration is literally not competent enough to be corrupt.



Nothing happened.
Something happened, but it wasn't bad.
Something happened and it may look bad, but it really wasn't.
The bad thing happened, but it's not really bad.
The bad thing couldn't have happened because they're too stupid to do it.

This is the absolute state of things.

I used to think Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid were the worst things in DC. That is no longer the case. Lindsey Graham is an absolute cancer. I do not think I have ever seen a more spineless, unprincipled human being in office.

[Captain N]

So...uh...Graham is trying out a new defense. The Trump administration is literally not competent enough to be corrupt.



Nothing happened.
Something happened, but it wasn't bad.
Something happened and it may look bad, but it really wasn't.
The bad thing happened, but it's not really bad.
The bad thing couldn't have happened because they're too stupid to do it.

This is the absolute state of things.

I could have sworn that ignorance of the law doesn't make your exempt from punishment if you break it.

Of course the "Party of Law and Order" makes up their own rules as they go along.

[omerome]

So...uh...Graham is trying out a new defense. The Trump administration is literally not competent enough to be corrupt.



Nothing happened.
Something happened, but it wasn't bad.
Something happened and it may look bad, but it really wasn't.
The bad thing happened, but it's not really bad.
The bad thing couldn't have happened because they're too stupid to do it.

This is the absolute state of things.

So there you have it, resident Supporters. You voted for an incompetent administration.

And Graham has stood by supporting it. Great leaders you have there, guys.

[Belize]

So...uh...Graham is trying out a new defense. The Trump administration is literally not competent enough to be corrupt.



Nothing happened.
Something happened, but it wasn't bad.
Something happened and it may look bad, but it really wasn't.
The bad thing happened, but it's not really bad.
The bad thing couldn't have happened because they're too stupid to do it.

This is the absolute state of things.

Great, then impeach them for incompetence! Problem solved.

[Zaydin]

So...uh...Graham is trying out a new defense. The Trump administration is literally not competent enough to be corrupt.



Nothing happened.
Something happened, but it wasn't bad.
Something happened and it may look bad, but it really wasn't.
The bad thing happened, but it's not really bad.
The bad thing couldn't have happened because they're too stupid to do it.

This is the absolute state of things.

So his argument is that Trump and his criminal enterprise are too incompetent to pull off a crime?

Last I checked competency didn't factor into whether someone got charged for a crime. Someone could enter a bank with the intention to rob it only to shoot themselves in the balls and they would still be charged with attempted robbery.

[Wyrt]

Apparently the new Republican defense strategy is to whine about the order witnesses are testifying in the public hearings.

[Cthulhu 2020]

So...uh...Graham is trying out a new defense. The Trump administration is literally not competent enough to be corrupt.



Nothing happened.
Something happened, but it wasn't bad.
Something happened and it may look bad, but it really wasn't.
The bad thing happened, but it's not really bad.
The bad thing couldn't have happened because they're too stupid to do it.

This is the absolute state of things.

This isn't even the first time they've used this defense. When the Russia probe was digging up all of the dirt on Trump's campaign, it was like "Sure, most of his campaign advisors and staff were corrupt with Russian money, but Trump himself was too dumb to even realize it, so he can't be guilty!"

[Edge-]

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...obert-mueller/

The trial kicked off on Wednesday at a federal courthouse in Washington, DC, with a bit of a circus atmosphere. The neo-fascist Proud Boys were there, as well as other luminaries of the alt-right, to support Stone, the dirty trickster and conspiracy theorist who has been a Trump adviser since the 1980s. Facing seven felony counts, Stone is charged with lying repeatedly to the House Intelligence Committee, obstructing justice, and witness tampering. But this case goes beyond Stone’s alleged lies: prosecutors have revealed new information about how Trump tried to benefit from the Russian operation during the 2016 campaign that hacked the Democratic National Committee’s servers. And they are producing material undercutting Trump’s claim to Mueller that he has no recollection of talking to Stone during the campaign about WikiLeaks. This information also presents a new wrinkle in the Trump-Russia scandal: Trump might have thought in 2016 that his campaign, in effect, was colluding with WikiLeaks. That’s because the campaign was communicating with Stone about WikiLeaks’ plans and intentions and campaign officials (and perhaps Trump) believed Stone was in contact with WikiLeaks.

So he's got his alt-right cheerleading squad there with him, but if the evidence offered by the prosecution holds up this is not going to be good for Trump.

- - - Updated - - -

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...whistleblowers

Rand Paul is being a good little stooge, and is blocking a resolution to reaffirm Senate support for whistleblower protections.

And blames it on Democrats.

- - - Updated - - -

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...eachment-team/

The Trump impeachment team is getting a new member! Pam Bondi.

You're not seeing things, that name is familiar! She's the one that took $25K from him just before an expose was posted about the Trump University scam, a scam she subsequently decided not to investigate. She was also in consideration to replace Sessions as AG...but that donation complicated things.

[Wyrt]

The media is falling into the same trap they did with the Mueller report. Then they kept talking about collusion, which isn't a crime.

They're doing the same thing now constantly talking about "Quid pro quo," which also isn't a crime. They need to be talking about bribery/extortion.

Stop letting Republicans frame how the topic is discussed.

[Ripster42]

The GOP has some major calculus to do over the next few months. If they vote to Convict, then Trump is out, and probably can't run again. What then? Pence? Sure, but he probably won't win. But what if Pence polls well? Trump is still out there, presumably alive and ducking federal and state subpoenas - what if he runs a third party campaign? If they keep Trump and don't Convict, and he runs in 2020 (which of course he will if he's still in the White House), would that help the GOP overall? KY and VA say "no" but what are the other factors.

The Impeachment is basically over - now it's just process and votes, and then the Senate (which I really can't predict), and then to see if the GOP is ready to dump their Albatross.

Anyone who gets impeached is ineligible to run for federal public office again. It might be all public office, but definitely federal.

Edit: just checked, hold any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States. So can't even have any deals with the US government, let alone hold any public office.

Double Edit: Which makes the announcement that the trumps are attempting to sell their interest in the post office hotel make much more sense.

I could have sworn that ignorance of the law doesn't make your exempt from punishment if you break it.

Of course the "Party of Law and Order" makes up their own rules as they go along.

Depends on the law. Some laws require that you know it's illegal/wrong.

[Captain N]

Depends on the law. Some laws require that you know it's illegal/wrong.

Considering the number of Republican lawmakers or lawyers that are getting caught up in this mess right along side Trump. They know.

[Orbitus]

Who are you listening to and what do they have to support their version then?

The witnesses in the hearings and their testimonies. Including the one that was released today that had receipts and everything. Something that backs up the whistleblower complaint, and every other testimony, including the moron that donated 1 million to Trump, and said that it wasn't a quid pro quo until the day before the Taylor transcript was released and amended his testimony so he didn't go to prison.

- - - Updated - - -

Personally, I think the Republicans won't break ranks at all during this. That's not to say that they won't necessarily vote to remove Trump, but if it comes to that, I believe they'll publicly support Trump right up until the moment they pivot as a whole to vote him out.

The only way they save face, as a whole, is as a whole, as it's unlikely that the Republican voting base can blame the entire Republican legislature for not being "Republican enough". I think Mitch is secretly using things like the Syrian mess to sow the seeds for a future break from Trump, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if he made sure that his people stepped out of the way prior to Trump's Syrian hijinks for that specific reason.

Or maybe I'm just ascribing too much Machiavellian thinking to Mitch, who knows.

That is because they don't care about the law or constitution.

[Edge-]

That is because they don't care about the law or constitution.

Power and party over country. Power and party over the Constitution. Power and party over all.

[Ripster42]

Considering the number of Republican lawmakers or lawyers that are getting caught up in this mess right along side Trump. They know.

Believing they know and proving they know are two different things. Basically either requires acknowledgement in some form of commentary (IE, talking about the statute) or legal education. The types of laws that have that language are usually somewhat obscure, nothing like murder/bribery/theft. Regardless, that's not the defense graham is presenting. He's just saying he doesn't give a shit that there's evidence trump tried to bribe people.


A:

"If you could show me that, you know, Trump actually was engaging in a quid pro quo outside the phone call, that would be very disturbing," he said on "Axios on HBO" last month.

B:

"The whole process is a joke. The whole idea that there’s a quid pro quo based on somebody changing their testimony presuming there was,"

So:

A) Evidence of quid pro quo on the phone call.
B) Evidence of quid pro quo (bribery) outside of the phone call.

[cubby]

Anyone who gets impeached is ineligible to run for federal public office again. It might be all public office, but definitely federal.

Edit: just checked, hold any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States. So can't even have any deals with the US government, let alone hold any public office.
Double Edit: Which makes the announcement that the trumps are attempting to sell their interest in the post office hotel make much more sense.

Unfortunately, that might not be the case. The wording is said to be ambiguous enough that if Impeached and Convicted, Trump might still be eligible to run for reelection unless the Senate takes a further step. There are a couple of good articles summarizing the issue, this is from WaPo:

The question of whether Trump could nonetheless run for president next year is more complicated. In the impeachment of federal officials, the Senate has adopted the practice of holding a separate vote on the issue of disqualification from future federal office after it votes for conviction. Since at least the 1912 impeachment of Judge Robert Archbald, the Senate has required only a majority vote for disqualification.

If no disqualification vote is held, even a convicted official can reenter federal service. U.S. District Judge Alcee L. Hastings was removed from office in 1989 after he was impeached in the House for engaging in a “corrupt conspiracy” — soliciting a $150,000 bribe in a case before him — and convicted in the Senate. But the Senate took no vote on disqualification. In 1992, Hastings ran for and won a seat from Florida in the U.S. House of Representatives, where he remains to this day.

If Trump were convicted by the Senate, but the Senate chose not to hold a disqualification vote, he could in theory run again, win and return to the White House. The path to reelection would also be open if a Senate vote favoring disqualification failed.

Making it even worse is if the Impeachment hearings went so long as to prevent another GOP candidate from being placed on the ballot. So Trump would be "stuck" on there, and without the disqualification vote, we'd be in a very weird place constitutionally.

[Ripster42]

I was under the same impression, but after more research removal and disqualification are typically two separate votes. Unless they vote to do both he could run in 2020.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...-how-stop-him/

AFAIK, it's never been tested before the SC, and you can bet it'd end up there.

[cubby]

The media is falling into the same trap they did with the Mueller report. Then they kept talking about collusion, which isn't a crime.

They're doing the same thing now constantly talking about "Quid pro quo," which also isn't a crime. They need to be talking about bribery/extortion.

Stop letting Republicans frame how the topic is discussed.

Good point - but at least the link between qpq and bribery/extortion is very clear. I still agree with you though that the media needs to call it what it is.

- - - Updated - - -

AFAIK, it's never been tested before the SC, and you can bet it'd end up there.

It doesn't look like it has - but the one guy who has gone through this all is still in office. Which is interesting.