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  1. #1

    Titanforging returning in shadowlands (possibly)

    A Dev states that it might return in the next expansion but they are currently watching the corruption system in 8.3 closely......wtf no

    When the patch was announced Watcher said they want the strongest gear from the hardest content and now we see that they are possibly going to scrap this new system that is at least more exciting than TF because.....why??

    They worked on this new system but might trash everything because TF is a lazy solution I guess.

    I wish they could respond this quickly to actual feedback instead of years later.

    Players say a system is flawed and it takes years for it to be fixed. Blizz says they listen but if they decide to make a shitty choice it goes in immediately and feedback be damned

  2. #2
    Titanforging is just a case of Blizzard ignoring the elephant in the room - There is too much loot going around.

    You gear yourself too fast => lose incentive to play as there is nothing to improve your character=> you no longer engage in a given content.
    Thus Blizzard came up with a system where they didn't have to reduce the overall loot, but simply gives you a chance to receive an upgrade from repeating content that you've technically outgear already.

    The corrupted system is basically the same thing, it may be different to titanforging, but it is borne out of the same unwillingness to tackle this issue.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    And their solution doesn't work because it makes everyone far too powerful, which is why they need one shot mechanics. Otherwise no one would ever wipe outside mythic!
    Yes and no.
    The problem of too much loot in that regard is that once you reach a given boss, you're already on such a high Ilvl that you barely need any loot from it in terms of Ilvl.

    Previously, once you reached a Heroic Boss, you were still decked in a lot of items from previous tier, now you reach Heroic Azshara and already have a plethora of 430+ items due to the raid itself and especially M+.

    But you're right in that regard that Blizzard due to this issue, shifted the difficulty from numbers (which coul be "solved" via gear) to mechanics, because gear is no longer such a huge deal.

    What once was Heroic (and now Mythic) highlights this.
    Compare a Boss like Heroic Ragnaros or Heroic Lei Shen to Mythic Azshara, those encounters were not easy nor terribly designed but Azshara is in terms of execution on another level.

  4. #4
    I don't really get the point of titanforging when you can just wait till the next patch and get tons of catch-up gear that trivializes previous patch's raids anyways...

  5. #5
    i hope they never remove it, its the only reason for replay content

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads View Post
    I don't really get the point of titanforging when you can just wait till the next patch and get tons of catch-up gear that trivializes previous patch's raids anyways...
    There is a 6 month gap between those patches.
    Blizzard doesn't like people not being subbed for 4+ months.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads View Post
    I don't really get the point of titanforging when you can just wait till the next patch and get tons of catch-up gear that trivializes previous patch's raids anyways...
    By that logic, there's no point in getting any gear at all, ever.

    Ignoring that better gear makes the current tier easier, at some point you have to just want to complete hard content for the achievement of it and not just to get +stats.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't think WF/TF is awful, in theory. I just think it's implemented poorly.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Teekey View Post
    By that logic, there's no point in getting any gear at all, ever.

    Ignoring that better gear makes the current tier easier, at some point you have to just want to complete hard content for the achievement of it and not just to get +stats.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't think WF/TF is awful, in theory. I just think it's implemented poorly.
    How can you start a sentence using "by that logic" and then just assault your own misunderstanding of someone's statement? No one said anything remotely close to what you did.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    And their solution doesn't work because it makes everyone far too powerful, which is why they need one shot mechanics. Otherwise no one would ever wipe outside mythic!
    They say they are trying to figure out how to counter power creep

    Remove TF and lower the difference between difficulties and tiers from 30ilvl to 10

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchers View Post
    i hope they never remove it, its the only reason for replay content
    Idk about you but personally I don't like having to do irrelevant content for a minimal possibility of an upgrade

    They don't want to lock players into gear pieces early on but if I say have a pair of gloves drop in LFR and it TF to max then likely that won't be replaced for 2 tiers they might be ok with that

    Not everything needs to be relevant with rewards
    As ion said "it's ok to outgrow content"

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Blizzard doesn't like people not being subbed for 4+ months.
    Which is funny, because plenty of people stay unsubbed for twice that long while waiting for flying.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Teekey View Post
    By that logic, there's no point in getting any gear at all, ever.

    Ignoring that better gear makes the current tier easier, at some point you have to just want to complete hard content for the achievement of it and not just to get +stats.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't think WF/TF is awful, in theory. I just think it's implemented poorly.
    Gives us the Residuum system from every aspect of the game and upgrade to TF that way

    Fuck RNG in gear

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyersing View Post
    Which is funny, because plenty of people stay unsubbed for twice that long while waiting for flying.
    And then complain when they have to play catch-up

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyersing View Post
    Which is funny, because plenty of people stay unsubbed for twice that long while waiting for flying.
    And then complain when they have to play catch-up

  12. #12
    I'll say this clearly. The devs can't be trusted on what they say. They are stubburn, they think they know better than people who play the game every day and they don't very much care. Declarations of intention, cause in the end, they still see problems where there aren't any and fail to see the huge obvious ones.

    Honestly, till this day developers take us for rotten incorrigible gamblers. They think a drop in a game is a "Yes" moment comparable to winning a jackpot in a casino. Guess what, i don't like casinos and i don't like gambling. My biggest "Yes" moments are when i got enough currency to go to a vendor and get the exact piece of gear i want. That feels awesome! It fills you with antecipation and rewards your effort. Game devs are the decadent gamblers, not us. Stop trying to push your bad habits into us!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchers View Post
    i hope they never remove it, its the only reason for replay content
    And what is wrong with stopping once you are done with it? There was no titanforging in vanilla, tbc or wrath. It was completely unecessary. Once you are done with the content you cleared it. Congrats you are done with this part! What is wrong with that? The sense of accomplishment, of being "done" with something is rewarding as well. Why must the game as a whole suffer? This trade-off is not worth it.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2019-11-07 at 06:47 AM.

  13. #13
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    I'd be glad if they brought TF back. The vast majority of arguments against it, as demonstrated here already, are shockingly poor and completely devoid of any modicum of critical thinking.

    There is a segment of this community that simply seems to want to whine about something. Getting rid of Titanforging won't change that, but it does screw over the vast majority of players for whom the system actually does make the game more enjoyable.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads View Post
    How can you start a sentence using "by that logic" and then just assault your own misunderstanding of someone's statement? No one said anything remotely close to what you did.
    That's a defense against "so what you saying". By that logic is supposed to be attached to a new statement.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    And what is wrong with stopping once you are done with it? There was no titanforging in vanilla, tbc or wrath. It was completely unecessary. Once you are done with the content you cleared it. Congrats you are done with this part! What is wrong with that?
    This is the kind of argument I was just talking about.

    There is nothing wrong with stopping once you are done with it. But that's no reason to remove TF. Because by the same token, there is nothing wrong with carrying on once you are done with it.

    TF gives people a reason to replay content. It doesn't force people to replay content. It gives us choice, and choice is a good thing. I really wish that the people who incessantly moan about the endless grind created by TF could somehow accept this instead of insisting that have to play in a manner that they hate - and then laying the blame of a game system.

  16. #16
    It’s really simple for me ...if there’s RNG on top of RNG, on top of RNG, on top of RNG... (titanforging or some other scheme)
    I’m not playing!
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I'd be glad if they brought TF back. The vast majority of arguments against it, as demonstrated here already, are shockingly poor and completely devoid of any modicum of critical thinking.

    There is a segment of this community that simply seems to want to whine about something. Getting rid of Titanforging won't change that, but it does screw over the vast majority of players for whom the system actually does make the game more enjoyable.
    I want TF gone because like setting goals for myself and then achieve those goals. The only reason I've had for playing WoW for the last couple of years is to get CE every tier. I quit playing in April and came back to level monk a few days ago, and I was shocked when I found out that gear in retail doesn't have spellpower on them. That's how forgettable and uninteresting gear in retail is to me. The switch to personal loot was a good change in my eyes because then I could just ignore gear even more than before.

    I played classic for a few weeks and suddenly gear was fun again, I ran Dire Maul again and again trying to get my BiS gear and felt accomplished when I did, when I got a good item I could actually notice my heals getting stronger. But then I ran out of motivation when I was done because there were no true challenges to overcome with my gear.

    Imagine a game where you can have both. Titanforging cannot exist in that game, for me at least.

  18. #18
    The corruption mechanic may or may not be fun; I have always enjoyed titanforging(Although I don't min max for BIS anymore because I am only in a Heroic raiding guild).
    So I win either way. If the numbers tell blizzard that corruption is more fun they will use that. If the numbers tell blizzard titanforging is more fun they will use that.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads View Post
    I don't really get the point of titanforging when you can just wait till the next patch and get tons of catch-up gear that trivializes previous patch's raids anyways...
    The are a few points to it, depending on the players and their state of play.

    What you seem to be talking about is players who are farming TF in preparation for the next tier. While you're right that catch up gear makes farming for TF unnecessary, some people do like to have a head start.

    I would say that a much more important aspect of TF though is that it helps most players - those not at the bleeding edge of progression - with their progress on the current content.

    The biggest point of TF is that it makes the content suitable for a much broader part of the player spectrum by providing a dynamic mechanism for controlling difficulty of content. The entire way that progression raiding is designed to work is that bosses reduce in difficulty as you acquire better gear through effort and commitment. Essentially, the process of gearing allows bosses to tune themselves to the appropriate level of difficulty for every group over time. Thus everyone gets to experience content that is challenging to them given their level of skill, in spite of the fact that some players are better at the game than others. The difference, of course, is in how long it takes the various groups to clear the content.

    Where TF comes in is that, in the past, the potential for prolonged gear improvement was a lot more limited. If guilds weren't strong enough to defeat a boss within a certain amount of time, they'd basically land up hitting a brick wall because they'd have obtained all the gear upgrades they could from previous bosses. With TF though, even if guilds do hit a brick wall, they will still be able to continue improving their gear over time. In effect, what TF achieves is that a difficulty setting can now be completed by a broader segment of the playerbase.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sezh View Post
    I want TF gone because like setting goals for myself and then achieve those goals. The only reason I've had for playing WoW for the last couple of years is to get CE every tier.
    That's fair. What I don't understand is how/why TF affects this negatively. No offence, but your explanation that follows doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with TF or how it affects your ability to achieve your goals and getting CE.

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