Who would win? Arthas or Sylvannas? Both Buffed to best potential (as we know).

[edw]

Halls of Reflection , looks like no one from Wotlk is playing anymore ... Sylvanas never stood a chance to defeat the LK

For your amusement go and play the dungeon.

Even empowered by whatever old god, she should've had a very hard time defeating him.

[Thage]

If the current writing is any indication, the writers would have pulled something out of their ass to let Sylvanas obliterate him in a fight while taking a minor scratch at worst, probably while strutting about and delivering some monologue on nihilism and how she'll set everyone free like she was reading right out of the generic evil overlord textbook as part of a high school presentation. After all, we can't have her suffering any meaningful setbacks with actual ramifications.

[Kelathos]

We do not know how ethereal Sylvannas is at this point. She may be more spirit than flesh. A spirit empowered by thousands of deaths... tens of thousands? The entire "4th war" is a tribute to her new shadow powers. If Blizzard is at least consistent (ha.. ha..) then we players should never be able to lay a finger on her ever again. It'd have to be VS the Jailer in some cosmic sacrifice that she loses. Or she'll replace him and rule the dead and the Shadowlands forever.

Maybe this expansion is all about placing her in her new, final, resting place. Would be worth if we at least get Vol'jin out of it.

[Nizah]

I must say that I am a Sylvanas fanboy, but Arthas would win that one.

Arthas's strength was just out of this world, the tricky thing about this thread is that we don't know how much stronger Sylvanas has actually become, but we can see that Bolvar was not that much weaker than her, so I would say Arthas wins.

Not much weaker? He didnt even touch her.

[Evereskalolpro]

people always say arthas is stronger than bolvar "because reasons", but fail to give any reasons other than revolved around to "he had a sword bro" jesus

Arthas or bolvar would lose because the writers said so

Ok, here is my theory why Arthas is stronger than Bolvar.

Frostmourne. Yep, he had a sword. A sword that consumed shitload of souls which we now know is equal power. Sounds pretty legit to me - when the sword was shattered by Tirion Arthas was donezo and rekt by resurrected player characters

[Nizah]

Arthas, he already did. H spared her life and that´s why she became what she is. Arthas enslaved Sylvanas for quite a while.

As you said, with full power as far as we know.

Arthas has already beat her.

I think you are off topic.

[Kyphael]

Arthas stomps.

[Pendraeg]

Title says it all.

Everyone kept saying LK shouldn't have lost but then Sylvannas has a more unique power of death. So what if we change the matchup? Sylvannas (as strong in cinematic) vs Arthas (lich king version and strongest version so in ICC 25H non80).

Thanks for answering. c:

PS If mods can add a poll. Please feel free to do so as I cannot add them, I forgot.

Well, let's look at who they faced, and what was available at the time (and the PC/raid doesn't count since level is kinda a way to manage game mechanics and not really a good measure of an NPC's relative power).

Sylvanas has fought and beaten Bolvar and Saurfang (the senior) most recently, most handily. A less powerful Sylvanas came up to a draw against Genn, who I don't really see as a high powered fighter. She was losing to Malfurion, though the "loyal" Stormrage brother is very much akin to a demigod, I think, during the Darkshore battle.

Arthas roflstomped Mal'Ganis, first as a paladin, though the latter did escape, then later with Frostmourne in hand. He beat Uther Lightbringer, not handily, perhaps, but as a Death Knight. He beat Anasterian Sunstrider without much trouble. He fought and beat Illidan without Ner'zhul's full power, holding only Frostmourne, without the rest of the Lich King armor. He didn't do so well against Fordring on holy ground with Ashbringer, but that's taking on his weakest aspect (holy/light) which I doubt would be a factor with Sylvanas.
As the Lich King, he blasted Saurfang (the younger) in a single strike.
He was a one man juggernaut against Jaina Proudmoore AND Sylvanas, who were forced to run from him (Halls of Reflection).
So, as of the date of this post, the DISPLAYED powers of the two are a pretty striking mismatch, with Arthas being quite a bit more powerful. That said, there's not much telling what new powers Sylvanas has acquired since. Time will tell.

[Nephys]

Not much weaker? He didnt even touch her.

That doesn't mean he wasnt close, did you see the size of his weapon? Its possible that if he hit her once she would be dead. And she wasnt joking around like she was with Saurfang, she came prepared with a plan of action during the fight, that means their powers are not that different. Its not like when she fought Malfurion and he just overpowered her.

[Syegfryed]

We are talking about Arthas as the Lich King, he had Frostmourne and the Helmet of Domination. So no Arthas power as the Lich King didn't only come from the helmet, you are clearly wrong.

the lich king powers come from the helm, Arthas also had the power of the sword, im saying its stupid to think that would make any less difference in the dfight.

The Helmet of Domination itself only controls the Scourge.

then explain bolvar control over the ice and how he embued the dk player with power;

[Reydan]

the lich king powers come from the helm, Arthas also had the power of the sword, im saying its stupid to think that would make any less difference in the dfight.



then explain bolvar control over the ice and how he embued the dk player with power;

How hard is it for you to read which literally says that Arthas gains more power with how many souls he drained thanks to Frostmourne?

So yes, it makes a huge difference in any fight it's stupid of you to think otherwise. You do know that Sylvanas gains more powers thanks to souls that goes directly to the Maw now because of her pact with the Jailer? It's almost the same thing how Arthas grew in power except Arthas had Frostmourne.

So again, no Bolvar as the Lich King doesn't have those powerups just the Helmet.

About the Helmet "control over the Scourge" can mean many things, like I said before we don't know if anything is left of Arthas/Ner'zhul in the helmet of Domination. We can assume that him wearing that helmet is giving him necromancer like powers, because of the things you mentioned.

[Syegfryed]

How hard is it for you to read which literally says that Arthas gains more power with how many souls he drained thanks to Frostmourne?

and how many times i had to say it would not make any difference? he would lose anyway because the plot demand it

Bolvar also had a magic weapon and was infused with dragon fire, both were powerful entities who would have to die anyway to launch her story

We can assume that him wearing that helmet is giving him necromancer like powers, because of the things you mentioned.

the helmet give the user the Lich king powers

[CaptainV]

Arthas is the "reason" Sylvanas is a banshee in the first place, and that was -long- before he became the lich king, that alone, should tell you how powerful he is.

Sylvanas at her full strength under the jailors boon would maybe put up a fairly difficult fight for pre-TLK Arthas, but full TLK arthas could literally wipe the floor with her, full strength included.

[Jastall]

Probably Sylvanas still given how god-tier they've decided to make her. I doubt anyone but the most powerful lore characters stand a chance against her now, and we've killed the majority of them as raid bosses.

[guisadop]

If we're being fair, Arthas. With the current writing team though it would probably be Sylvannas.

[La]

Sylvanas is like Superman, she's exactly as strong as she needs to be. If she couldn't beat Arthas as LK, she'd be given the offscreen power of x death god number 31 to do so.

Let's not forget that player characters have defeated Old Gods and enemies of countless strength, but the LK was one of only two that managed to kill every adventurer and almost got away with it.

[horbindr]

kinda depends on how many souls arthas had in his sword, but i have a feeling it doesn't quite match up to what the jailer has access too.

i'd also think that arthas/nerzhul had to learn large parts of necromancy themselves (doubt the demons told him everything they knew), meanwhile sylvanas has been thought the intricacies of death magic from one of the highest known authorities. stands to reason she has been taught some hard counters if beating the lich kind was always part of the plan.

i'm also pretty sure that nathanos is a much better quality undead than anything i think arthas ever made.

[qwerty123456]

They didn't fail to give reasons you just throw them away because of your own viewpoints. Arthas had Frostmourne which is a powerful weapon throughout Warcraft lore, it only got shattered because of the light powering up Ashbringer. You clearly see it in the battle against the Lich King. The power from the Lich King did not come from Frostmourne alone, but it is one of his main power sources. It drains the souls of it's victims increasing his wielders powers. Arthas had many victims he slayed thus his powers where enhanced. Bolvar doesn't have this part of powers as the Lich King.

Then there is another part to Arthas powers as the Lich King, he merged with Ner'zhul's soul gaining his wisdom and skills. We don't know if Bolvar merged with Arthas/Ner'zhul's soul. But looking at the cinematic and in game we can say he didn't merge.

So yes Bolvar is weaker in comparison to Arthas because of not having Frostmourne reasons given above.

Bolvar was a venerated paladin able to survive the forsaken plague that was so powerful it could even kill undead. He then survived being burned alive by dragon fire and then clearly learned to control it as his mace was infused with it. And finally he was able to endure months of torture and attempts of corruption by Arthas. Arthas was so weak that he was easily corrupted. Bolvar also took several of Sylvanas's arrows (that obliterated a massive chuck of ice/rock) like it was nothing.

The only thing that Arthas has on Bolvar is Frostmourne and Sylvanas already knows about it and would likely use her powers to destroy it before he even got a chance to use it. Plus Arthas was the one who killed her so she would probably want to obliterate Arthas and not even attempt to keep him alive like she did with Bolvar.

[fazaim]

Bolvar was a venerated paladin able to survive the forsaken plague that was so powerful it could even kill undead. He then survived being burned alive by dragon fire and then clearly learned to control it as his mace was infused with it. And finally he was able to endure months of torture and attempts of corruption by Arthas. Arthas was so weak that he was easily corrupted. Bolvar also took several of Sylvanas's arrows (that obliterated a massive chuck of ice/rock) like it was nothing.

The only thing that Arthas has on Bolvar is Frostmourne and Sylvanas already knows about it and would likely use her powers to destroy it before he even got a chance to use it. Plus Arthas was the one who killed her so she would probably want to obliterate Arthas and not even attempt to keep him alive like she did with Bolvar.

Great point, a lot you say here I haven't thought about. I wonder if Blizzard even took that into consideration, or made the misstep of thinking no frostmourne like everybody else. Those new powers of hers mentioned in quests after the "Reckoning" cinematic must really be some f--king powers then.

[iamthedevil]

Bolvar was a venerated paladin able to survive the forsaken plague that was so powerful it could even kill undead. He then survived being burned alive by dragon fire and then clearly learned to control it as his mace was infused with it. And finally he was able to endure months of torture and attempts of corruption by Arthas. Arthas was so weak that he was easily corrupted. Bolvar also took several of Sylvanas's arrows (that obliterated a massive chuck of ice/rock) like it was nothing.

The only thing that Arthas has on Bolvar is Frostmourne and Sylvanas already knows about it and would likely use her powers to destroy it before he even got a chance to use it. Plus Arthas was the one who killed her so she would probably want to obliterate Arthas and not even attempt to keep him alive like she did with Bolvar.

This is exactly why Bolvar is such an awesome character. The dude just keeps getting shit on so hard but always pulling himself together and getting through it.