Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[JohnBrown1917]

More along the lines of "Elizabeth Warren is just trying to not be a dick".

We've had quite enough of WWE-style politics.

Letting billionares stay billionares is 'not being a dick' now lol
No wonder the US is going so far to the right.


Civility(and centre to right-wing) politics are all that matters.

- - - Updated - - -

Being polite is not the same as pandering. Not every political race needs to be a shitshow of mudslinging and derogatory epithets.

Or she could just not have responded it, is that so hard?

[Draco-Onis]

If the proposal came with a later start I'd agree, but it actually doesn't. Its extending the school day by three hours. I mean, ultimately it is a mandate for further extracarriculars but I am of the belief that to some extent that doesn't necessarily help and having kids hitting the grind of school from say 8AM to 6PM of largely unbroken structured learning and activities is a long grind for any kids. Little kids, so Kinders on to 6th graders that is just too damn long, and really some kind of free rec would be better after the usual 3:15 point. Maybe Middle School and High School it might be okay, but even then; I have a lot of sympathy for a kid who say is being forced by their parent to take band, or some other program simply because the parent wants to put in more hours. You are inevitably going to get some miserable kid stuck in a program they hate for another three hours after already spending many hours in school mostly just waiting to go home.

I know this both as a teacher and as someone who worked for after school programs too. Either way the kids have their own interests and ideas about what they want to do; and keeping them in a structured environment until 6PM.... assuming a 9PM bedtime or 8 for the littles is like 2 hours of relative freedom on a week day. You can't cater to all kids interests AND follow state guidelines AND ensure relative safety AND be able to keep the kids following basic rules.

I also think it'd be better to address those problems then simply have families spend more time apart.

Thanks for the clarification then I disagree with it, I thought it was just shifting the hours to later which is something I strongly support. As for addressing these issues if it was that easy we would have done it already we are talking about decades of wealth destruction and income inequality it won't happen overnight.

[Theodarzna]

Thanks for the clarification then I disagree with it, I thought it was just shifting the hours to later which is something I strongly support. As for addressing these issues if it was that easy we would have done it already we are talking about decades of wealth destruction and income inequality it won't happen overnight.

I feel like going for anything that makes the current situation function, even haphazardly runs the risk of it just surviving longer.

[Flarelaine]

I think if you add a daycare mandate than on behalf of all teachers in the USA I demand is HUGE fucking pay increase.

In my book, that goes without saying.

[Skroe]

Letting billionares stay billionares is 'not being a dick' now lol
No wonder the US is going so far to the right.


Civility(and centre to right-wing) politics are all that matters.

Dude, it's a twitter post by someone running for President. Give me a break.

Secondly, we're a capitalist country. There is nothing wrong with great wealth. And Bill Gates did build one of the great companies of our times. Oh, and by the way how has he spent most of the past 20 years since he stood down from his day-to-day job at Microsoft?

That's right. Being a philanthropist.

What do you think will be Bill Gates' biggest legacy to the world...founding Microsoft or doing more to personally finance the eradication of Malaria in Sub-Saharan Africa than by anyone living? Hey remember that time he pledged $5 billion to fight AIDS in Africa?

Yeah. A real Lex Luthor this one.

But I realize your non-serious commitment to a non-serious economic/political system will prevent you from recognizing the great good that capitalism has brought into the world.

Please hit me with the latest "End-Stage Capitalism" internet meme. I haven't had a good scoffing today.

[Zaktar]

Letting billionares stay billionares is 'not being a dick' now lol
No wonder the US is going so far to the right.


Civility(and centre to right-wing) politics are all that matters.

- - - Updated - - -



Or she could just not have responded it, is that so hard?

Wait, you think a US president has the power to stop billionaires from existing? I mean, as a long term goal I'm pretty much there with you but we're a long, long way off.

Ignoring a blandly popular figure's criticism of her ideas would be a massive failure. Gates handed her an opportunity and she's capitalizing on it. Hope she continues to do so.

[Donatello Trumpi]

THere is an interesting historical aside to this from the angle of the child, particularly adolescents, late adolescents and young adults.

One of the most consistently vexing things in the history of human civilization that cuts across time, culture, and continents is how societies handle young people, particularly young men. Bored young men cause revolutions. They destabilizing governments. They group up with other bored young men. They lead to surges in criminality and antisocial behavior. As far back as Ancient Greece, when life exptency was a fraction of what it is now, this has been the norm. You get a bunch of young people together, with few prospects and not really doing anything, and bad things happen. In just the last 220 years, massive wars in Europe and across the world have been enable by an unprecedented number of "bored young people" existed there to be pulled into the largest armies in history. One of the leading inhibitors of another conflict of that scale today is that the developed world has far fewer "people of fighting age" who are inclined to do the actual fighting. They are instead in involved in other things.

The same is true of women too. Bored young women, especially those without access to family planning, have children earlier in life. Which means they have more children over all. Which leads to unsustainable population growth and a vicious cycle of the problem.

How to transition people in their mid teens becoming productive members of society (in modern terms) is an age old problem that's been attacked from many angles. The modern approach is mandatory education to a certain age, then transition into either higher education or the beginning of a a career. One of the problems of the tepid growth in the world, and particularly doggedly high unemployment in Europe, is that it is disrupting this conveyor belt, leading to lots of "bored young people".

So while there is certainly merit to the argument that school isn't daycare, we also can't ignore that the modern approach to keeping people off the streets and out of trouble... doing something productive to put it plainly... is an essential part of creating a stabilized society and keeping international order.

"bored young people do wars" is such a simple concept.

bored and young, maybe, but it is far from a natural occurence as you paint it to be. There must always be a force that canalizses the process, else there is no direction.

Antifa and other radicals were the first thing that came to my mind.

[Benggaul]

Or she could just not have responded it, is that so hard?

Ignoring criticism is SUCH a positive quality in a candidate.

[Skroe]

Bill Gates made more money off investments than he did off Microsoft since at least the late 1990s. He turned great wealth into fantastic wealth.

That’s a virtue not a vice. Being a philanthropist doesn’t mean taking a vow of poverty.

Investing has contributed significantly to my own wealth, for what that’s worth. And growing up my father investing enables a life style well beyond his $160k physicians salary.

Making money is a great thing.

[cubby]

Kamala Harris is not trying to make your kids go to school until 6 pm. She wants to fund aftercare programs of the kind that already exist in public schools with affluent PTAs. Her suggestion was for all schools to have optional afterschool programs to 6. Since the school day is typically 2 hours shorter than a parents work day.

A nice option for working parents, especially single parents.

Stay at home Beckys or those with nannies seem to be the one's complaining the most about Karris.

I agree about extending the school day, or at least offering programs that extend it for students with working parents. And IMO @Draco-Onis the school day isn't too long, it's just too much homework coming home. And we need to pay teachers 3x-4x what they are currently earning.

[Draco-Onis]

I agree about extending the school day, or at least offering programs that extend it for students with working parents. And IMO @Draco-Onis the school day isn't too long, it's just too much homework coming home. And we need to pay teachers 3x-4x what they are currently earning.

I don't think the day is too long I just think they start school way too early, it's rather insane we should let the kids sleep.

[Endus]

Dude, it's a twitter post by someone running for President. Give me a break.

Secondly, we're a capitalist country. There is nothing wrong with great wealth. And Bill Gates did build one of the great companies of our times. Oh, and by the way how has he spent most of the past 20 years since he stood down from his day-to-day job at Microsoft?

That's right. Being a philanthropist.

What do you think will be Bill Gates' biggest legacy to the world...founding Microsoft or doing more to personally finance the eradication of Malaria in Sub-Saharan Africa than by anyone living? Hey remember that time he pledged $5 billion to fight AIDS in Africa?

Yeah. A real Lex Luthor this one.

But I realize your non-serious commitment to a non-serious economic/political system will prevent you from recognizing the great good that capitalism has brought into the world.

Please hit me with the latest "End-Stage Capitalism" internet meme. I haven't had a good scoffing today.

Bill Gates didn't really do anything "wrong". He benefited from a broken system, but he wasn't breaking it even further, unlike a lot of super wealthy people.

Bill Gates made more money off investments than he did off Microsoft since at least the late 1990s. He turned great wealth into fantastic wealth.

That’s a virtue not a vice. Being a philanthropist doesn’t mean taking a vow of poverty.

Investing has contributed significantly to my own wealth, for what that’s worth. And growing up my father investing enables a life style well beyond his $160k physicians salary.

Making money is a great thing.

Yeah, that last bit is a problematic idea, taken unto itself. It's Prosperity Gospel silliness.

Economies aren't infinite. "Making money" expressly comes at the expense of others in that economy; they are who you're making money off of. That may be those who compose the market, as you sell them a product they need at a price set to generate high profits. That may be employees, whom you pay as little as you can get away with. It may be the government, who provides you subsidies you exploit. Capitaism is exploitation. That's the single-word summation of the system. It is not meant to foster a healthy distribution of wealth; its systems put the power in the hands of the wealthy, to secure even more wealth for themselves, at the expense of everyone else.

Some of those wealthy may turn out to have a conscience, and use that wealth in philanthropic endeavours, like Gates, or in pushing necessary investment in technology at a fiscal loss to themselves, like Musk. And given that the system is designed this way, we can't fault them too badly for the natural level of exploitation the system mandates, to have made their money in the first place. But the idea that "making money is a great thing", unto itself, ignores the necessary cost of "making money", which is the people you made that money off of. Either by paying them less than the value of their labour, or in charging more than the value of the product or service you're selling.

[cubby]

I don't think the day is too long I just think they start school way too early, it's rather insane we should let the kids sleep.

I think medically speaking it is too early for high school kids (see the research on teenager sleep cycles re staying up late - I think you know this too, just putting it out there for others).

If we're going to revamp school we need to have 8-5 school times, teachers and aides in each class, with after school activities etc later in the day, if at all. No homework. Breakfast/lunch/dinner(?) offered free for all. We need to essentially mirror the European and Asian schools (some of those, not all, lol).

I fully agree about making sure that kids get enough sleep.

[Endus]

And IMO @Draco-Onis the school day isn't too long, it's just too much homework coming home. And we need to pay teachers 3x-4x what they are currently earning.

As a side note;

On homework; outside of long-term projects like essays, homework shouldn't exist. Homework is "you didn't finish your work in class, so get it done before tomorrow's class" stuff. Not "here, do a bunch of extra work". The students should have had reasonable time to finish their work in class.

On salaries, the best comparison is to equally-credentialled work. Here, you need a baccalaureate degree to enter teacher's college and get your B.Ed.; it's an additional 1-2 years of training. That's comparable to what you need to do to become an architect, and more than you need to become an engineer. That's where the pay level should be, for teachers, just based on the investment required on the part of those who want to work that job.

And no, they don't "get summers off". You're either teaching summer school, or your salary already accounts for you working 10 months, not 12. It's stil way too low.

[cubby]

As a side note;

On homework; outside of long-term projects like essays, homework shouldn't exist. Homework is "you didn't finish your work in class, so get it done before tomorrow's class" stuff. Not "here, do a bunch of extra work". The students should have had reasonable time to finish their work in class.

On salaries, the best comparison is to equally-credentialled work. Here, you need a baccalaureate degree to enter teacher's college and get your B.Ed.; it's an additional 1-2 years of training. That's comparable to what you need to do to become an architect, and more than you need to become an engineer. That's where the pay level should be, for teachers, just based on the investment required on the part of those who want to work that job.

And no, they don't "get summers off". You're either teaching summer school, or your salary already accounts for you working 10 months, not 12. It's stil way too low.

I could not agree more.

Plus, purely from a selfish perspective, I'd want the people teaching my children to be highly paid (and I love your Comp analysis - double agreed there).

[Theodarzna]

I don't think the day is too long I just think they start school way too early, it's rather insane we should let the kids sleep.

I'd also add "Have the kids warehoused in after school programs" is the kind of idea the childless come up with. While sure, kids don't exactly have a choice in what they do and if the parent demands it they have to go, but still.... The Gods have mercy on the people running programs for kids who have been in school for seven plus hours who now have to give them structured activities for further learning for yet another three hours. You can't really craft programs for everyone and at SOME point even children IMHO deserve time to decompress and be themselves and just you know, have some semblance of fun.

At a certain point we might as well turn all schools into bordering schools and parents just visit on the weekends.

[PACOX]

Biden doesn't know how to run a campaign he has run several times for president and failed. As for polling several other candidates also beat Trump but polls this far out are pretty useless.

Not that I like either of them but Trump has various form of a presidential campaign for 15-20 years. Pays off eventually I guess.

[kaelleria]

Bloomberg is getting into the race...
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...mpression=true

[Elegiac]

Bloomberg is getting into the race...
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...mpression=true

Kinda meaningless except to underscore that the establishment takes Warren as a credible threat, really.

[Gestopft]

Bloomberg is getting into the race...
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...mpression=true

Cue cheers from the five people outside the beltway that think this is a great idea