Factions stay, no cross-faction mode

[dumathoinn]

The same way it has throughout the history of WoW. Humans enslaved and tortured orcs, trolls and various other horde races. Orcs raided and murdered alliance settlements. While you might not feel like they settled there differences, lore wise they two factions still hate each other. There's a difference between being at full blown war, and disliking a faction to the point where you kill them out in the open world. It's WARCRAFT, not PEACECRAFT. They'll work together when it's necessary, but to full blown merge them together would be ridiculous. The only way I see blizzard implementing cross faction gameplay is if the sub count nose dives. They'll have no other option other to enable it due to a small community.

This dude gets it and i 100% agree. To get rid of all the faction fighting takes away a HUGE core piece of Warcraft.

[Garymorilix]

Yes it is. People don't want to swap to Alliance because there is no pool of high end players anymore outside oceanic realms.

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No content prior to 120 means jack.

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It's not, stop lying. Alliance wasn't "more casual" until ToT drove half the high end to swap over because of the broken beast damage racial and it just increased from there.

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PvE content does have this problem rofl

To you maybe. I wouldn't generalize in that regard.

Yea sure whatever, it doesn't matter since when, what matters is that they are.

Auto grouping Pve content does not have this problem. There is a difference in queue Times but not to the same extent as pvp had before.
Now however, both work fine as long as you dont queue to very specific bgs/wings as some are just not favored by player either on faction or community level.

[Kelathos]

Imagine a Development team smart enough to pursue the cross faction party that they spent all of BFA bolstering. Letting players take part in that party... cross faction PvE. While allowing elements within the factions to carry on PvP. (Warmode, etc).

Imagine if we players were given meaningful choices in how we play, and who we played with. With no artificial barrier.

[huth]

What fucking missed opportunity?

As Ion has already said... having 2 factions fighting each other is a core part of this game and most of it is built around it. Removing factions would be the single dumbest thing they could ever do, also something they just couldn't reverse.

Except it really isn't. Any time they actually put the fight in the foreground what we get is a lackluster story, it encourages toxic behaviour, it causes an effectively unsolvable problem for the raiding scene and it is actually circumventable in PvP, the one part of the game where it might have some merit.

Besides, it's basically saying that "not letting people play together" is a core part of the game.

[crakerjack]

Imagine a Development team smart enough to pursue the cross faction party that they spent all of BFA bolstering. Letting players take part in that party... cross faction PvE. While allowing elements within the factions to carry on PvP. (Warmode, etc).

Imagine if we players were given meaningful choices in how we play, and who we played with. With no artificial barrier.

If you want to play horde, go play horde. If you want to go play alliance, go play alliance. Just curious, how often do you engage in wPvP with warmode on? Second, throughout your history of playing WoW, did you play on a PvP realm or PvE realm? These questions matter because they're the types of things that conditions players a certain way. If you don't do wPvP much or you didn't play on a PvP realm prior to warmode, then it's likely, because of the story, you feel bias towards cross faction content. If someone doesn't do any PvP, it's easy, based on how the story has gone so far, to feel like the game is heading that direction. You have Thrall and Jaina holding hands, looking into each others eyes. You have Anduin giving his fathers sword to Saurfang to combat Sylvanas. Prior to that expansion, you have key lore characters helping both the alliance and horde as we faced off against the Legion. So I completely understand where you and others are coming from.

That being said, it would go against the immersion of WoW to enable cross faction content. When I wPvP on my alliance characters, I know I'll be smashing in some horde players face. What if I wanted to go do some m+ and all of a sudden I'm queued with horde players? I'm now working alongside these players who I was just camping and ruining their day. I understand that you think it's subtle, but that would kill immersion for me. Why stop with just PvE content? Why not make all PvP, including BG's, arena and wPvP cross faction too? Why can't I just go kill other alliance player on my human warrior? At that rate it would only be a cosmetic thing.

The only rational argument I've heard for cross faction content is so that there would be a larger playerbase to choose from when doing PvE content. I could see this being beneficial in situations like now, where people are taking breaks from WoW because there isn't much to do in the last few months/weeks of 8.2.5. The only way I would ever give the nod on cross faction content is if the playerbase dwindled down to a million players. For low pop realms, blizzard has already stated that they'll be dishing out another wave of realm merges, which I'm excited about because the realm I'm on (Korgath) is absolutely dead. At peak hours of a weekend, it might jump to medium, but for the most part it stays at low.

I think there are other feasible options to faction balances, just cross faction isn't one of them, regardless of what the storyline so far perpetuates.

[Wyrt]

That being said, it would go against the immersion of WoW to enable cross faction content.

Oh god, we're getting the stupid "MUH IMMERSION" argument for this too.

Draenei team up with blood elves every time draenei are at the forefront in the story since the end of BC. Sunwell? Team up. WoD? Team up. Legion? Team up.

So please, tell me how it's immersive that my draenei characters can not team up with my friend's blood elf characters when the 2 races team up all the damn time? Hell, fucking blood elves do more to help the draenei than the Alliance does.

[Evilfish]

Except it really isn't. Any time they actually put the fight in the foreground what we get is a lackluster story, it encourages toxic behaviour, it causes an effectively unsolvable problem for the raiding scene and it is actually circumventable in PvP, the one part of the game where it might have some merit.

Besides, it's basically saying that "not letting people play together" is a core part of the game.

Oh really? We being toxic now? That the new word you Peacecrafters decided on this week? Not that we are playing a game that has been, largely about two factions being hostile to each other...

[Wyrt]

Oh really? We being toxic now? That the new word you Peacecrafters decided on this week? Not that we are playing a game that has been, largely about two factions being hostile to each other...

There's literally only been 2 expansions(well, 1 really since BfA is just a copy/paste of MoP) that have heavily focused on faction conflict. Most of the rest of the time the factions are working together against a 3rd party or are just rather irrelevant.

[crakerjack]

Oh god, we're getting the stupid "MUH IMMERSION" argument for this too.

Draenei team up with blood elves every time draenei are at the forefront in the story since the end of BC. Sunwell? Team up. WoD? Team up. Legion? Team up.

So please, tell me how it's immersive that my draenei characters can not team up with my friend's blood elf characters when the 2 races team up all the damn time? Hell, fucking blood elves do more to help the draenei than the Alliance does.

No one is teaming up. They're not holding hands, they're not making out. They're working together in order to fight a greater evil, but that's far from "teaming up". This has been the case for a while. We tolerated each other in TBC while we shared the city of Shattrath, but the moment I saw an alliance player run out of that city, I was quick to smash their face into the ground, why? Because I was horde at the time and they were filthy alliance. Just because lore characters get along, doesn't mean every alliance and every horde player wants to hold hands with the opposing faction. Turn on warmode, go run around and try to do your typical WQ or w/e you want while not trying to actively avoid the opposing faction. They'll gank you or you'll gank them and you'll be reminded of how you hate them. But if all you do is play with warmode off, then obviously you're biased towards the whole thing. Why would you be against cross faction content if you don't attack the opposing faction to begin with?

It doesn't matter what lore characters do, it's what we do. I get ganked by horde players, therefore I gank them back. You don't engage in wPvP, so therefore you see them as an opportunity to enlarge the playerbase. Besides, belonging to a faction is like being part of a team. You don't see professional players running across the field to sit/play with the opposing team. "Hey guys, yea thought I'd come over here and play with yall. Didn't see the big deal on just sticking with my team since we're all playing the same sport, right?"

[Wyrt]

No one is teaming up. They're not holding hands, they're not making out. They're working together in order to fight a greater evil, but that's far from "teaming up". This has been the case for a while. We tolerated each other in TBC while we shared the city of Shattrath, but the moment I saw an alliance player run out of that city, I was quick to smash their face into the ground, why? Because I was horde at the time and they were filthy alliance. Just because lore characters get along, doesn't mean every alliance and every horde player wants to hold hands with the opposing faction. Turn on warmode, go run around and try to do your typical WQ or w/e you want while not trying to actively avoid the opposing faction. They'll gank you or you'll gank them and you'll be reminded of how you hate them. But if all you do is play with warmode off, then obviously you're biased towards the whole thing. Why would you be against cross faction content if you don't attack the opposing faction to begin with?

It doesn't matter what lore characters do, it's what we do. I get ganked by horde players, therefore I gank them back. You don't engage in wPvP, so therefore you see them as an opportunity to enlarge the playerbase. Besides, belonging to a faction is like being part of a team. You don't see professional players running across the field to sit/play with the opposing team. "Hey guys, yea thought I'd come over here and play with yall. Didn't see the big deal on just sticking with my team since we're all playing the same sport, right?"

And how would having an option to group up cross faction for raids where the factions already group up affect warmode exactly?

[Kyphael]

I wonder if the third quarter numbers concerning the bump in active WoW subscribers swayed Blizzard's decision to not introduce cross-faction play. The argument was always why halve a dwindling player base? But if the numbers seem healthy for them, maybe they found it justifiable to maintain WoW's core concept of faction separation.

[crakerjack]

And how would having an option to group up cross faction for raids where the factions already group up affect warmode exactly?

Because I wouldn't be able to kill the opposing faction in my raid. I see horde player, I kill horde player. At that rate we should just make it so I can kill whoever I want with warmode on. I mean why not? Based on your argument that there would be more people available, same would apply to warmode. If I could kill alliance players just like I do horde, wouldn't that be more people to pick from? Now how silly do you think that would be?

[Wyrt]

Because I wouldn't be able to kill the opposing faction in my raid. I see horde player, I kill horde player. At that rate we should just make it so I can kill whoever I want with warmode on. I mean why not? Based on your argument that there would be more people available, same would apply to warmode. If I could kill alliance players just like I do horde, wouldn't that be more people to pick from? Now how silly do you think that would be?

Then don't group up with Horde players?

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I wonder if the third quarter numbers concerning the bump in active WoW subscribers swayed Blizzard's decision to not introduce cross-faction play. The argument was always why halve a dwindling player base? But if the numbers seem healthy for them, maybe they found it justifiable to maintain WoW's core concept of faction separation.

It's not healthy for end game raiding though. Alliance raiding is dying.

[evertonbelmontt]

Funny thing is:

When I happen to die to an alliance group I don't hate them, I hate the horde guy/girl that avoided them just to be killed seconds later without standing a chance because it's 3x1 instead of 3x2 had he/she helped me.

That said, it means shit to me that pvp exists between factions. So does our world has conflicts, but we can CHOOSE who to be with and what to do.

They fucked up not allowing cross faction groups for pve. The money alone they would gain from people playing the race they want within whatever faction they want would make up for the stuborn pride.

[crakerjack]

Then don't group up with Horde players?

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It's not healthy for end game raiding though. Alliance raiding is dying.

And that argument is the only one I'm willing to listen to when it comes to cross faction content. The thing is, it's not really dying. Sure the horde scene is larger, but that still doesn't justify cross faction content. Alliance end game raiding is dying, the same way a 30 year old is dying. He's 30, and is slowly working his way towards an older age, where he'll eventually die in his 80s/90s. I can logon to my alliance characters and find various raids. Sure there's more on horde, but more doesn't imply that alliance raiding scene is dead. Just because there's more horde raiding guilds in the top 100 than there are alliance doesn't mean much of anything. That just means they should rework racials again so that people feel swayed to go either side. Hell, the only reason I'm alliance now is because of Every Man For Themselves. I was big into PvP back in the day and being able to utilize 2 trinkets other than the medallion was amazing.

[Azadina]

If you want to play horde, go play horde. If you want to go play alliance, go play alliance. Just curious, how often do you engage in wPvP with warmode on? Second, throughout your history of playing WoW, did you play on a PvP realm or PvE realm? These questions matter because they're the types of things that conditions players a certain way. If you don't do wPvP much or you didn't play on a PvP realm prior to warmode, then it's likely, because of the story, you feel bias towards cross faction content. If someone doesn't do any PvP, it's easy, based on how the story has gone so far, to feel like the game is heading that direction. You have Thrall and Jaina holding hands, looking into each others eyes. You have Anduin giving his fathers sword to Saurfang to combat Sylvanas. Prior to that expansion, you have key lore characters helping both the alliance and horde as we faced off against the Legion. So I completely understand where you and others are coming from.

That being said, it would go against the immersion of WoW to enable cross faction content. When I wPvP on my alliance characters, I know I'll be smashing in some horde players face. What if I wanted to go do some m+ and all of a sudden I'm queued with horde players? I'm now working alongside these players who I was just camping and ruining their day. I understand that you think it's subtle, but that would kill immersion for me. Why stop with just PvE content? Why not make all PvP, including BG's, arena and wPvP cross faction too? Why can't I just go kill other alliance player on my human warrior? At that rate it would only be a cosmetic thing.

The only rational argument I've heard for cross faction content is so that there would be a larger playerbase to choose from when doing PvE content. I could see this being beneficial in situations like now, where people are taking breaks from WoW because there isn't much to do in the last few months/weeks of 8.2.5. The only way I would ever give the nod on cross faction content is if the playerbase dwindled down to a million players. For low pop realms, blizzard has already stated that they'll be dishing out another wave of realm merges, which I'm excited about because the realm I'm on (Korgath) is absolutely dead. At peak hours of a weekend, it might jump to medium, but for the most part it stays at low.

I think there are other feasible options to faction balances, just cross faction isn't one of them, regardless of what the storyline so far perpetuates.

Since Chinese play in their own league, that already very well might be the case for western players.

[Wyrt]

And that argument is the only one I'm willing to listen to when it comes to cross faction content. The thing is, it's not really dying. Sure the horde scene is larger, but that still doesn't justify cross faction content. Alliance end game raiding is dying, the same way a 30 year old is dying. He's 30, and is slowly working his way towards an older age, where he'll eventually die in his 80s/90s. I can logon to my alliance characters and find various raids. Sure there's more on horde, but more doesn't imply that alliance raiding scene is dead. Just because there's more horde raiding guilds in the top 100 than there are alliance doesn't mean much of anything. That just means they should rework racials again so that people feel swayed to go either side. Hell, the only reason I'm alliance now is because of Every Man For Themselves. I was big into PvP back in the day and being able to utilize 2 trinkets other than the medallion was amazing.

The time to rework racials was back in MoP when Alliance guild started switching to Horde. It's far too late for balancing racials to fix anything. Even if racials were perfectly balanced Alliance raiders would still be bleeding into Horde because Horde is where all the people are. Larger pool of people makes raiding easier and makes it easier for people to progress up the ladder.

[crakerjack]

The time to rework racials was back in MoP when Alliance guild started switching to Horde. It's far too late for balancing racials to fix anything. Even if racials were perfectly balanced Alliance raider would still be bleeding into Horde because Horde is where all the people are. Larger pool of people makes raiding easier and makes it easier for people to progress up the ladder.

Well then flip the scale the other way. Make the new mechagnome racials a little broken and all the min/maxing top 100 guilds will switch, along with all the people who are fans of them. Blizzard gains more money from all the transactions and the alliance playerbase gets more players. Right as the populations begin to level out, tune the racials so they're more balanced and BAM, you now have balanced faction pops.

Even if they don't, I don't think the alliance raiding scene is dead. We're just not as active in the top 100 world races as horde are.

[Wyrt]

Well then flip the scale the other way. Make the new mechagnome racials a little broken and all the min/maxing top 100 guilds will switch, along with all the people who are fans of them. Blizzard gains more money from all the transactions and the alliance playerbase gets more players. Right as the populations begin to level out, tune the racials so they're more balanced and BAM, you now have balanced faction pops.

Even if they don't, I don't think the alliance raiding scene is dead. We're just not as active in the top 100 world races as horde are.

Then you just create the opposite problem.

[Evilfish]

There's literally only been 2 expansions(well, 1 really since BfA is just a copy/paste of MoP) that have heavily focused on faction conflict. Most of the rest of the time the factions are working together against a 3rd party or are just rather irrelevant.

Like Legion? Oh wait, even if we were "working together" the factions where still fighting each other.

Maybe before that on Draenor? Nope, still fighting each other.

MoP... lots of faction fighting there.

Cataclysm... there too.

Wrath of the Lich King? Nope, still having at each other.

BC? At it.

So many expansions and there's faction conflict at some degree in each...