Factions stay, no cross-faction mode

[Sluvs]

"Don't speak for playerbase, I will!"

So true! Imagine zoning to Deathwing as Alliance only to look around and find some filthy ORC among you if faction line would be ever crossable! Or going at Ragnaros as proud Hordie only to see a dirty hippie NIGHT ELF in your midst. I think anybody who really values their faction pride would've felt that lore is completely destroyed this instant and delete game on the spot.

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https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pve-stats/races. Look closely at "% (1+ boss)". Can we close this stupid "but that's only for mythic!" excuse right here, please?

Yeah, sure, if you ignore all the for the hordes and for the alliances shouted around in blizzcon, or all the formum posts about horde and alliance.

Cata was the start of the war. The story of the entires zones would have to be changed, one of which led the Worgens into the alliance, mind you.

MoP simply could not be done. Plain and simple.

Wotlk would lose a boss fight and the trial of the crusader patch, not to mention that the wrath gate would have to be pretty different.

Legion would scrap the stormheim storyline and the 8.1 patch would have to be entirely redone, not to mention the broken shore debacle and the order halls losing meaning, since in lore the classes got together because the factions were to busy pissed at each other, hell the entire rogue storyline is about the plots to throw us against one another.

WoD would have to change at least 2 whole zones, 4 if we are being honest. We would also have a great problem since the horde went with the orcs and the alliance went with the draenei, changing two whole races and how they behaved.

BfA is the same as MoP.

You may simplify as much as you want, but the facts remain that in most expansions the Horde and Alliance were meaningful in one way or another. But sure, yeah.

It is only for mythic, for anything else you can do cross realm group to get it done. This graph only proves that the alliance does less PVE in mythic difficulty, that is it.

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Again, a simple solution. Have the queue prefer your choice to remain exclusive to your faction - and drag your group of friends along.

Lots of ways to do this.

Or maybe the even easier way would be to not dissolve the factions.

[Doffen]

"Don't speak for playerbase, I will!"

Right? This is the best argument I hear for someone that doesn't like someones opinion. You can't speak for us, but others that doesn't agree with you can.

And going by this thread alone, the majority of the playerbase want cross faction play. The only "playerbase" I know that care about the Horde and the Alliance is my GL, who doesn't care jack shit about the actual story.

No, what I see and what I hear from the "playerbase" is that they want changes, not spesifically cross faction raids and dungeons(that too), but for any kind of class/race restrictions as well.

I don't speak for ya'll, but I sure can say that lots of people agree.

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Or maybe the even easier way would be to not dissolve the factions.

But that wouldn't disolve the factions. If people could stop ignoring that, that would be nice.

[Sluvs]

Right? This is the best argument I hear for someone that doesn't like someones opinion. You can't speak for us, but others that doesn't agree with you can.

And going by this thread alone, the majority of the playerbase want cross faction play. The only "playerbase" I know that care about the Horde and the Alliance is my GL, who doesn't care jack shit about the actual story.

No, what I see and what I hear from the "playerbase" is that they want changes, not spesifically cross faction raids and dungeons(that too), but for any kind of class/race restrictions as well.

I don't speak for ya'll, but I sure can say that lots of people agree.

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But that wouldn't disolve the factions. If people could stop ignoring that, that would be nice.

This thread is only a small sample of the player base and the topic is bound to attract people for the change.

I'm not speaking for the playerbase, I'm pointig out that at EVERY blizzard event (blizzcon mainly, ofc, but smaller ones too) They reinforce faction divide and the people go along with it. It's a vital part of WoW, whether you like it or not.

Wanting changes and wanting factions dissolved are very different thing and should not be lumped together.

But it will, the moment that you allow people to group with other people, you will have to support it, this means that LFD and LFR will need to mix factions. And the moment that happens, the divide will be absolutely obliterated. Not to mention that it does not make any sense in lore. Now, if you want to do a tamer version of it, it would be better, but not by much, since it will still hurt the lore and the worldbuilding aspects of the game and take the wind of several stories sails. The tension need to exist, it is CORE to WoW.

There is also very little reason to do it.

[rowaasr13]

This thread is only a small sample of the player base and the topic is bound to attract people for the change.

I'm not speaking for the playerbase, I'm pointig out that at EVERY blizzard event (blizzcon mainly, ofc, but smaller ones too) They reinforce faction divide and the people go along with it. It's a vital part of WoW, whether you like it or not.

So... err... Blizzcon is not "a small sample"? Riiiiighht.

Wanting changes and wanting factions dissolved are very different thing and should not be lumped together.

Right now most people want cross-faction play.

But it will, the moment that you allow people to group with other people, you will have to support it, this means that LFD and LFR will need to mix factions. And the moment that happens, the divide will be absolutely obliterated.

Fucking WHY? Except just because you've just pulled it out.

Not to mention that it does not make any sense in lore.

In that case no Horde group with Druid in it "makes any sense in lore".

There is also very little reason to do it.

PvE inequality. And simply making queue pool 2 times richer.

[Sluvs]

So... err... Blizzcon is not "a small sample"? Riiiiighht.

Right now most people want cross-faction play.

Fucking WHY? Except just because you've just pulled it out.

In that case no Horde group with Druid in it "makes any sense in lore".

PvE inequality. And simply making queue pool 2 times richer.

If you think 40k people are a small sample... Yeah. Lol. Not to mention that they reinforce it.

You don't know that, actually you are pulling that completely out of thin air

What? Are you asking why putting two factions on the LFD or LFR will obliterate the divide? Because people will start playng with the opposite faction, making the divide not only pointless but completely irrelevant.

The druids can follow the saurfang path, the one that was against the burning of teldrassil.

The pool is big enough on both sides. Also, a simpler fix to it would be to connect more servers together.

[hulkgor]

I think factions are an integral part of World of Warcraft and would be upset if they dissolved them. I'll understand years down the line when the game is dying down as a hail mary, but not right now.

That said, i like the faction system, not the current storytelling, especially since Blizzard's writing has been horrible (it was never great, but it's been particularly bad in BFA).

So yea, i'm hoping the main storylines and plots move away from the faction conflict, but i'm glad factions still exist.

On a side note, i'd fucking quit if i started seeing gnomes running around Orgrimmar or in my dungeons and raids. Fuck that race.

[rowaasr13]

MoP simply could not be done. Plain and simple.

So true! How can I ever quest in Valley, Krasarang (sans beach dailies), Kun-Lai, Townlong or Dread Wastes without HvA? Monastery, Brewery, Niuzao Temple - my hatred for another faction drove me there. Mogushan vaults makes zero sense without faction conflict. Why the hell would I ever set foot in Heart of Fear if not to defeat another faction? Throne of Thunder? Phuleaaaaase... Humans made me go there!

Wotlk would lose a boss fight and the trial of the crusader patch, not to mention that the wrath gate would have to be pretty different.

Because making two champion teams fight obviously requires faction conflict and can't be explained with simple challenge to each other. Wrathgate? Are we talking about same fucking Wrathgate? Ah wait, you're right, I clearly remember human shouting "die, you filthy orc!" and he answering "Faction coflict forever!" before they go into fierce duel! Somebody must've doctored this pathetically fake video.

Legion would scrap the stormheim storyline and the 8.1 patch would have to be entirely redone, not to mention the broken shore debacle and the order halls losing meaning, since in lore the classes got together because the factions were to busy pissed at each other, hell the entire rogue storyline is about the plots to throw us against one another.

There about ten (10) quests in entire zone that are different between H/A and put you at other faction's NPCs. Rest are simply "different" and overwhelming majority are Odyn's shit. Did you ever play them on both sides? Because I did. Leaving that as Genn vs Sylvanas thing is sooooo hard to write, right?

WoD would have to change at least 2 whole zones, 4 if we are being honest. We would also have a great problem since the horde went with the orcs and the alliance went with the draenei, changing two whole races and how they behaved.

Why exactly? How two groups finding different allies would stop them from going into dungeons together in-universe? Hell, Horde routinely protects Stormwind every time they queue for Everbloom or works with same draenei that "alliance went with" while in Auchindoun. It is unfathomable that any Alliance PC would join them for THAT. At least according to you, right?

BfA is the same as MoP.

BfA is deliberately done to invoke this fucktardery, but even there there are a lot of content that doesn't deal with factions at all. Entire home continent campaign just barely touches other faction. Guys like Sethrak openly invite both factions to help. Even Waycrest doesn't give a fuck that you're Horde as long as you're there to kick Gorak Tul ass (BTW, could this guy be a Jailer?). In-fucking-universe. With voiceover.

I start to get feeling that you're in some perception bubble where you only see AvH everywhere and ignore everything else.

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If you think 40k people are a small sample... Yeah. Lol. Not to mention that they reinforce it.

Yes, I do. 40k most obsessed who find time and resources to fly over to Blizzcon vs. millions of players that don't give a shit.

The druids can follow the saurfang path, the one that was against the burning of teldrassil.

Gee, I'm not surprised you didn't get reference, because so far you shown pretty bad understanding of lore. The fun fact is Druid is an Night Elven (=Alliance) class and was exclusively so until very recently. Horde learned it through Hamuul Runetotem who studied under Malfurion post WC3. So any Hordie with "muh faction pride" should absolutely reject each and every of those filthy Alliance underlings here and now. Because faction conflict is a pillar, WAAAAAAAAAHR in the WarCraft and all the rest stupid stuff.

[WowIsDead64]

Interview from Preach and Bay:


From 8.30.

So after Shadowlands it will be another silly faction war. Such a missed opportunity.

What do you feel?

This should be one big important lesson for you, guys. Story doesn't matter at all. Blizzard simply exploit it to serve their current local needs. Because at the end BFA story doesn't have any consequences at all.

No matter, how many times Ion said, that BFA story mattered...at the end it doesn't matter at all. It's just thrown into trash and Ion turns amnesia mode again. I.e. let's just forget about it, as we forgot about Garrosh and 3 xpacks, that his story leaded to - MOP, WOD and Legion. Yeah. Don't forget, that it was alternative Gul'dan, who leaded us to Legion, and it was Garrosh, who leaded us to alternative Gul'dan. Let's forget, that official Horde and official Alliance have peace treaty now, so nothing stops them from doing content together. Let's just forget about war and it's consequences. And of course let's keep possibility for another MOP 3.0/BFA 2.0 stupid pointless war story, where we forget about lessons of MOP and BFA again and will go "Sylvanas mode" again.

Conclusion? Shadowlands is obvious WOD 2.0 filler xpack. We wanted WotLK 2.0, but will get WOD 2.0. Why? Don't you remember MOP? Garrosh became evil, was overthrown, opened way to alternative flashback land and...Sylvanas became evil, was overthrown and will open way to alternative flashback land. Doesn't it sound familiar?

P.S. No matter, what Blizzard say, but development of other games actually AFFECTS Wow. Both current Classic and future Diablo 4 are big factors, that affected and will affect Wow development.

[Uselessrouge]

disappointing for me i wanted to play gnom warrior or gnom dk/ rogue like back in the days :P

[Doffen]

This should be one big important lesson for you, guys. Story doesn't matter at all. Blizzard simply exploit it to serve their current local needs. Because at the end BFA story doesn't have any consequences at all.

No matter, how many times Ion said, that BFA story mattered...at the end it doesn't matter at all. It's just thrown into trash and Ion turns amnesia mode again. I.e. let's just forget about it, as we forgot about Garrosh and 3 xpacks, that his story leaded to - MOP, WOD and Legion. Yeah. Don't forget, that it was alternative Gul'dan, who leaded us to Legion, and it was Garrosh, who leaded us to alternative Gul'dan. Let's forget, that official Horde and official Alliance have peace treaty now, so nothing stops them from doing content together. Let's just forget about war and it's consequences. And of course let's keep possibility for another MOP 3.0/BFA 2.0 stupid pointless war story, where we forget about lessons of MOP and BFA again and will go "Sylvanas mode" again.

Yeah, pretty much this. I guess the BfA story just shows how little the factions actually matters.

It's always the greater good(big bads) that really drives the story. That I am fine with personally. The last part of BfA is going to be both better and make more sense, because the war is over. Blizzard always been better at the bigger stories. But thats how I feel.

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This thread is only a small sample of the player base and the topic is bound to attract people for the change.

I'm not speaking for the playerbase, I'm pointig out that at EVERY blizzard event (blizzcon mainly, ofc, but smaller ones too) They reinforce faction divide and the people go along with it. It's a vital part of WoW, whether you like it or not.

Wanting changes and wanting factions dissolved are very different thing and should not be lumped together.

But it will, the moment that you allow people to group with other people, you will have to support it, this means that LFD and LFR will need to mix factions. And the moment that happens, the divide will be absolutely obliterated. Not to mention that it does not make any sense in lore. Now, if you want to do a tamer version of it, it would be better, but not by much, since it will still hurt the lore and the worldbuilding aspects of the game and take the wind of several stories sails. The tension need to exist, it is CORE to WoW.

There is also very little reason to do it.

Yeah, it is just that, a thread, it's an anecdotal thing, which says, we want restrictions gone. Most of it. I can't speak more for the player base than you can. In the bigger picture that doesn't matter much.

The tension of the big bads have always been more core to the story than Alliance vs Horde. The core of the game that the faction bring is a gameplay restriction. But that we won't agree on ever, and thats just how it is

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On a side note, i'd fucking quit if i started seeing gnomes running around Orgrimmar or in my dungeons and raids. Fuck that race.

I think of that now even when I am on my Alliance characters in any city... :P

[Boo Radley]

I'm sure they will find more ways to make people go to Horde, so it doesn't matter much.

Yeah, horde always gets the best toys. I was just thinking, remember that time they gave Vulpera a battle potion of main stat that is always active. Wait, it wasnt vulpera? It wasnt horde at all? It was mechagnomes? Well that's just weird. There must have been a mistake, the horde is about to collapse since everyone is here for temporary cosmetic reasons and not because of any overarching social mechanics. Something like how the best players tend to congregate in an area where they will have access to the other players of their skill level, instead of arbitrarily splitting down their recruiting pool.

nah you right its conspiratorial.

[Sluvs]

So true! How can I ever quest in Valley, Krasarang (sans beach dailies), Kun-Lai, Townlong or Dread Wastes without HvA? Monastery, Brewery, Niuzao Temple - my hatred for another faction drove me there. Mogushan vaults makes zero sense without faction conflict. Why the hell would I ever set foot in Heart of Fear if not to defeat another faction? Throne of Thunder? Phuleaaaaase... Humans made me go there!

Because making two champion teams fight obviously requires faction conflict and can't be explained with simple challenge to each other. Wrathgate? Are we talking about same fucking Wrathgate? Ah wait, you're right, I clearly remember human shouting "die, you filthy orc!" and he answering "Faction coflict forever!" before they go into fierce duel! Somebody must've doctored this pathetically fake video.

There about ten (10) quests in entire zone that are different between H/A and put you at other faction's NPCs. Rest are simply "different" and overwhelming majority are Odyn's shit. Did you ever play them on both sides? Because I did. Leaving that as Genn vs Sylvanas thing is sooooo hard to write, right?

Why exactly? How two groups finding different allies would stop them from going into dungeons together in-universe? Hell, Horde routinely protects Stormwind every time they queue for Everbloom or works with same draenei that "alliance went with" while in Auchindoun. It is unfathomable that any Alliance PC would join them for THAT. At least according to you, right?

BfA is deliberately done to invoke this fucktardery, but even there there are a lot of content that doesn't deal with factions at all. Entire home continent campaign just barely touches other faction. Guys like Sethrak openly invite both factions to help. Even Waycrest doesn't give a fuck that you're Horde as long as you're there to kick Gorak Tul ass (BTW, could this guy be a Jailer?). In-fucking-universe. With voiceover.

I start to get feeling that you're in some perception bubble where you only see AvH everywhere and ignore everything else.

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Yes, I do. 40k most obsessed who find time and resources to fly over to Blizzcon vs. millions of players that don't give a shit.

Gee, I'm not surprised you didn't get reference, because so far you shown pretty bad understanding of lore. The fun fact is Druid is an Night Elven (=Alliance) class and was exclusively so until very recently. Horde learned it through Hamuul Runetotem who studied under Malfurion post WC3. So any Hordie with "muh faction pride" should absolutely reject each and every of those filthy Alliance underlings here and now. Because faction conflict is a pillar, WAAAAAAAAAHR in the WarCraft and all the rest stupid stuff.

You are being dishonest with MoP, it's about the conflict between the horde and the alliance, you cannot dissociate then. Period. The cinematic is about why do we fight, the entirety of jade forest is us recruiting the local races for our war. Hell we siege orgrimmar and defeat garrosh, a conflict that would not be able to exist without the faction war and his increasing derangement. And I did not even touch the purge of dalaran and throne of thunder. Take your nonsense elsewhere, no one is buying.

The wrathgate led to the battle of undercity where the king of alliance attacked thrall and sylvannas. The argent tournament served as a way for the alliance and the horde to bound, it loses its meaning wihtout the factions.

Oh yeah? Explain the broken shore and 7.1 then, tell me how the factions are not vital on that front. The climax of the zone ends up in AvH moment.

Everbloom is literally the only exception where it might be acceptable, but you just handwave everything else away. How would a draenei ally with orcs when they are being hunted and killed by orcs?

I'm not in some perception bubble, I just recognize that AvH is vital to the game and you deny it despite the game and developers themselves telling you otherwise.

40k is not a small sample. Any research that has a sample this size is basically guaranteed a 95% precision.

Oh wow. I did not get the obscure hidden meaning of your words and fell into your trap, oh no, it's not like there is an event that put this in question now that is way more relevant, right(or other druids that are not tauren)? Oh please. While NE have taught them they clearly made it their own by now. What weak argument. Previous friendships can be challenged and tauren to this day are the bridge that allowed this tenuous peace taht we have to happen.

Lore, gameplay and world building shows that they are core to the game.

Developers tell you the same thing.

Stop trying to twist the arguments and just face it head on.

Horde and alliance are pillars of the game. You want to tear those pillars down? Give me a good enough reason.

[huth]

LOL this comment.

First you say that it isn't a core part of the game (which is obviously false) and then you keep on complaining about it being a... core part of the game.

Sure, because the definition of "core part" is "element that does nothing but cause problems". Oh, wait. It isn't. It means "element that is central to the functionality" which... it isn't. Next to none of the systems of the game actually require a hard faction barrier. Even the story doesn't. The game would work just fine if you could pick what faction your character works for independently of your race, or even if you could change it without a paid faction transfer.

They could completely drop it and not lose anything of value. Despite their claims, the game actually isn't designed around it, which is where half the problems stem from. And you can just completely circumvent it in PvP, further devaluing the claim.

[Sluvs]

Sure, because the definition of "core part" is "element that does nothing but cause problems". Oh, wait. It isn't. It means "element that is central to the functionality" which... it isn't. Next to none of the systems of the game actually require a hard faction barrier. Even the story doesn't. The game would work just fine if you could pick what faction your character works for independently of your race, or even if you could change it without a paid faction transfer.

They could completely drop it and not lose anything of value. Despite their claims, the game actually isn't designed around it, which is where half the problems stem from. And you can just completely circumvent it in PvP, further devaluing the claim.

The story is developed around it several times.
The world is developed around it.
It is a pillar of WoW. I don't see how hard this can be to understand, after the burning of teldrassil, no alliance member will fully trust the horde, and tyrande is actively against them and not only blaming sylvannas, but the horde too. She is pissed at anduin for signing the armstice even.

Hell, warcraft was BUILT on the war of orcs vs humans. The OG horde and alliance. How can you guys say with a straight face that it does not matter is beyond me.

[huth]

You are being dishonest with MoP, it's about the conflict between the horde and the alliance, you cannot dissociate then. Period. The cinematic is about why do we fight, the entirety of jade forest is us recruiting the local races for our war. Hell we siege orgrimmar and defeat garrosh, a conflict that would not be able to exist without the faction war and his increasing derangement. And I did not even touch the purge of dalaran and throne of thunder. Take your nonsense elsewhere, no one is buying.

And none of those conflicts require for there to be a hard barrier preventing Horde and Alliance players from grouping up.

It isn't necessary to make the factions disappear completely. But there is no need to have a hard faction barrier.
And most of the time, the factions fighting one another did nothing but cause trouble for everybody anyway, which they then end up having to band together to fix.

[rowaasr13]

You are being dishonest with MoP

No. It's you outright lying and refusing to admit you've screwed up. I gave you a list: "Valley, Krasarang (sans beach dailies), Kun-Lai, Townlong or Dread Wastes without HvA? Monastery, Brewery, Niuzao Temple - my hatred for another faction drove me there. Mogushan vaults makes zero sense without faction conflict. Why the hell would I ever set foot in Heart of Fear if not to defeat another faction? Throne of Thunder? Phuleaaaaase... Humans made me go there!" Stop hiding behind empty general excuses. Which one of those won't work without A and H being at each other's throat? Name. Not your hollow broken record about cores. Even SoO will work with cooperative A+H groups just fine if you put blame directly on Garrosh and his cronies alone. It is ALREADY joint A+H assault on him in-universe right now.

[huth]

The story is developed around it several times.
The world is developed around it.
It is a pillar of WoW. I don't see how hard this can be to understand, after the burning of teldrassil, no alliance member will fully trust the horde, and tyrande is actively against them and not only blaming sylvannas, but the horde too. She is pissed at anduin for signing the armstice even.

Hell, warcraft was BUILT on the war of orcs vs humans. The OG horde and alliance. How can you guys say with a straight face that it does not matter is beyond me.

And WarCraft 3 is about how the factions need to work together, in case you forgot.

Also, i'm primarily talking about the gameplay element, not the lore conflict.
Which isn't that hard and fast, either. Horde and Alliance have cooperated on numerous occasions, at least as often as they have fought one another. It has at times been a pillar. But it isn't an inviolable requirement.

[Devilyaki]

Bit disapointed, be the same stuff as always, could of shook things up a bit and broke from the stale game limits. Not too surprised though.

[rowaasr13]

How would a draenei ally with orcs when they are being hunted and killed by orcs?

Why are you fucking lying straight in my face if all your pathetic lies are easily broken by quick look at any Horde Auchindoun run video? Do you see Orc here? Do you see Auchenai saying "Nyami awaits you, <...> champions!" Not "Die, you green abomination", but "Nyami awaits you, <...> champions!" Just stop lying. It's laughable by now.



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Oh wow. I did not get the obscure hidden meaning of your words and fell into your trap, oh no, it's not like there is an event that put this in question now that is way more relevant, right(or other druids that are not tauren)? Oh please. While NE have taught them they clearly made it their own by now. What weak argument. Previous friendships can be challenged and tauren to this day are the bridge that allowed this tenuous peace taht we have to happen.

You've simply demonstrated that despite speaking big about pillars and cores you've actually have either bad grasp of lore or very skewed perception of it.

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The story is developed around it several times.
The world is developed around it.
It is a pillar of WoW. I don't see how hard this can be to understand, after the burning of teldrassil, no alliance member will fully trust the horde, and tyrande is actively against them and not only blaming sylvannas, but the horde too. She is pissed at anduin for signing the armstice even.

Hell, warcraft was BUILT on the war of orcs vs humans. The OG horde and alliance. How can you guys say with a straight face that it does not matter is beyond me.

The story is developed around it several times.
The universe is developed around it.
It is a pillar of SC. I don't see how hard this can be to understand, after the murdering of Fenix, no Protoss member will fully trust the Zerg, and Artanis is actively against them and not only blaming Kerrigan, but the Zerg too. He is pissed at Raynor for working with her even.

Hell, StarCraft was BUILT on the war of Humans vs. Zerg vs. Protoss. The OG Swarm and Terrans. How can you guys say with a straight face that it does not matter is beyond me.

Because you know, stories never evolve and WC3 didn't happen.

[mhdoe]

Awesome no factions has to be one of the stupidest ideas people have been floating around.