Confirmation, Classic wow has "MILLIONS" of players.

[Relapses]

People still moving the goal posts...

First it was 'see in a few weeks', then 'see in a couple of months'... and now nearly 3 months in, they still keep moving them.

Till when? Do we need 1 year of huge success for people to stop moving the goal post? 2 years? 5? Surpassing retail? geez, make up your minds already!

I'll admit I likely underestimated Classic's potential. (Don't tell @Akka, he'll screenshot this post.) That said, as BlizzCon has demonstrated there seems to be a non-existent drive to focus on additional Legacy content. (TBC/WotLK is possible but if Classic+ was even the faintest possibility I'm certain it would've been mentioned at BlizzCon.) Even if Classic has "beat" retail, what does it prove? The best case scenario is that eventually a certain percentage of Classic returnees convert to retail players. At the end of the day, everybody's paying the same fee to play the same game... there doesn't really seem to be any upshot for "winning" the retail vs. Classic argument aside from smug bragging rights.

[Misuteri]

I’ve been inactive on retail since MOP.

I would come back for vanilla and never touch retail. I have no desire to level through 3 expansions and go looking for the transmogs and mounts I missed in the last 5-6 years.

Vanilla is something I would love to do, I so do miss the old 3 BG’s and never got to do vanilla AV which had me spellbound watching Twitch. I’ve never been so close to resubbing.

[IKT]

The best case scenario is that eventually a certain percentage of Classic returnees convert to retail players.

I don't think it's going to be a large percentage, the retail game is lost as far as I can see.

[FelPlague]

I’ve been inactive on retail since MOP.

I would come back for vanilla and never touch retail. I have no desire to level through 3 expansions and go looking for the transmogs and mounts I missed in the last 5-6 years.

Vanilla is something I would love to do, I so do miss the old 3 BG’s and never got to do vanilla AV which had me spellbound watching Twitch. I’ve never been so close to resubbing.

if you wanna do vanilla AV
have i got a surprise for you
live actually has a more accurate version of classic AV then classic will (or alteast said it would, it may use this version now)

[hulkgor]

I'll admit I likely underestimated Classic's potential. (Don't tell @Akka, he'll screenshot this post.) That said, as BlizzCon has demonstrated there seems to be a non-existent drive to focus on additional Legacy content. (TBC/WotLK is possible but if Classic+ was even the faintest possibility I'm certain it would've been mentioned at BlizzCon.) Even if Classic has "beat" retail, what does it prove? The best case scenario is that eventually a certain percentage of Classic returnees convert to retail players. At the end of the day, everybody's paying the same fee to play the same game... there doesn't really seem to be any upshot for "winning" the retail vs. Classic argument aside from smug bragging rights.

Hey, i have no interest whatsoever on Classic beating retail. I just enjoy that i can play both, and im hoping Shadowlands is a good expansion.

I sincerely don't understand the animosity a lot of posters have to the opposite 'side' or opinion.

[arkanon]

Hey, i have no interest whatsoever on Classic beating retail. I just enjoy that i can play both, and im hoping Shadowlands is a good expansion.

I sincerely don't understand the animosity a lot of posters have to the opposite 'side' or opinion.

I'm with you on all points but with an addition - the rabid fanboism is actually worse, I find. Without even a hint of trolling, some guy claimed classic would settle somewhere between 100,000,000 and 200,000,000 players, depending how well it was made. Not a troll acc, not a new acc, and post history showed a common theme - a genuine belief that classic would have a minimum of 100,000,000 players. Not 100,000. 100m players.

I don't see much of it specific to bfa, but I certainly do see some pretty blind fanboism on retails side too.

I still think the most ironic thing is that many players enjoy both, and I would LOVE to see that stat, I think it would really surprise a lot of people.

[Onikaroshi]

I'm with you on all points but with an addition - the rabid fanboism is actually worse, I find. Without even a hint of trolling, some guy claimed classic would settle somewhere between 100,000,000 and 200,000,000 players, depending how well it was made. Not a troll acc, not a new acc, and post history showed a common theme - a genuine belief that classic would have a minimum of 100,000,000 players. Not 100,000. 100m players.

I don't see much of it specific to bfa, but I certainly do see some pretty blind fanboism on retails side too.

I still think the most ironic thing is that many players enjoy both, and I would LOVE to see that stat, I think it would really surprise a lot of people.

It's probably a much larger percent then many people think, most of the 40 man raid group that we started with (and is still going) plays both, we ran into many people along the way too who play both

[arkanon]

It's probably a much larger percent then many people think, most of the 40 man raid group that we started with (and is still going) plays both, we ran into many people along the way too who play both

I don't understand the shame ppl seem to have about it. Most of my guild in retail muck around in classic, some more than others.

Classic is a terribly flawed game with no scope. I enjoy it for what it is - a trip down memory lane. It's fine, but from class design, to the sub LFR difficulty raid encounters, it lacks everything I enjoy about retail.

Retail is very functional, but lacks any real soul or adventure. It has exceptionally difficult content, and you have a huge amount of content at endgame.

What I'm saying is both iterations are flawed, but currently I am playing very little of either and actually enjoying bfv and re:2 and other games from different genres.

The biggest flaw wow has is the community, and that's true from vanilla to bfa, and imo, at it's worst in classic.

[Onikaroshi]

I don't understand the shame ppl seem to have about it. Most of my guild in retail muck around in classic, some more than others.

Classic is a terribly flawed game with no scope. I enjoy it for what it is - a trip down memory lane. It's fine, but from class design, to the sub LFR difficulty raid encounters, it lacks everything I enjoy about retail.

Retail is very functional, but lacks any real soul or adventure. It has exceptionally difficult content, and you have a huge amount of content at endgame.

What I'm saying is both iterations are flawed, but currently I am playing very little of either and actually enjoying bfv and re:2 and other games from different genres.

The biggest flaw wow has is the community, and that's true from vanilla to bfa, and imo, at it's worst in classic.

So true, and honestly what I play classic for now is literally just leveling alts and preparing for TBC we all know is coming. Maybe retail can find its soul again, who knows, hopefully Shadowlands can kill Endless AP and Titanforging, but I'll still play both all along.

[Relapses]

I don't understand the shame ppl seem to have about it. Most of my guild in retail muck around in classic, some more than others.

Classic is a terribly flawed game with no scope. I enjoy it for what it is - a trip down memory lane. It's fine, but from class design, to the sub LFR difficulty raid encounters, it lacks everything I enjoy about retail.

Retail is very functional, but lacks any real soul or adventure. It has exceptionally difficult content, and you have a huge amount of content at endgame.

What I'm saying is both iterations are flawed, but currently I am playing very little of either and actually enjoying bfv and re:2 and other games from different genres.

The biggest flaw wow has is the community, and that's true from vanilla to bfa, and imo, at it's worst in classic.

One of the biggest issues is that there exists a non-insignificant (but not huge either) portion of Classic's playerbase whom see retail as everything they despise in gaming. These are people who likely, at one point in time, were huge supporters of retail but became disenfranchised by a certain expansion or a certain feature. And rather than moving on with their lives like most humans, they've developed a masochistic grudge for everything retail presents. Classic allowing these players to play their idealized version of the game has given them catharsis and its short term success has given them all the ammunition they need to proudly proclaim to the world that their vision of what is best for WoW is the one which mattered all along. These players represent an extremely small portion of the actual playerbase but due to the nature of forums, this vocal minority is fairly prevalent around here.

I won't lie. It makes for some interesting conversation and debate. But in reality, I think most people are far more ambivalent towards retail than you would gather by reading topics on this subforum.

[ErrandRunner]

It's sad to see so many people grossly inflate Classic's success. What they are doing is looking at the numbers that came to try out Classic, not those who will stay 6 months later. I'm happy that people are stoked about getting to play Classic, but the ones going on with "see how successful it is and how much better than retail it is" need to tone it down. Retail is evolution; Classic is stagnation. Deal with it.

[Onikaroshi]

It's sad to see so many people grossly inflate Classic's success. What they are doing is looking at the numbers that came to try out Classic, not those who will stay 6 months later. I'm happy that people are stoked about getting to play Classic, but the ones going on with "see how successful it is and how much better than retail it is" need to tone it down. Retail is evolution; Classic is stagnation. Deal with it.

Classic isn't REALLY stagnation, it's just that we know the path it will take, at least through Wrath. They may decide to stop it there though.

But yea, some people are far too adamant... I had someone argue that Classic hadn't lost any players, any at all....

[Relapses]

But yea, some people are far too adamant... I had someone argue that Classic hadn't lost any players, any at all....

...b-b-b-bu-but my friendslist is full of Classic players. Therefore, everybody's friendslist is as well. That's how this works, right?

[Nelle]

I played Classic about 10 minutes at release and not bothered since. Bet I still count in those statistics

[Rafalga]

I played Classic about 10 minutes at release and not bothered since. Bet I still count in those statistics

It includes "returning" subscriptions. If you were already playing retail but checked out classic for "10 min.", you are not in it.

Also half of the posters in this thread should google "moving the goal posts" and rethink what the hell they are doing.

[arkanon]

It includes "returning" subscriptions. If you were already playing retail but checked out classic for "10 min.", you are not in it.

Also half of the posters in this thread should google "moving the goal posts" and rethink what the hell they are doing.

Interesting that you jump straight onto attempting to discredit them, instead of asking the question. You also claim to know far more about their "returning subscription" than any of us do. What was the timeframe? From name reservation? A month before launch? Only from launch day? How long did they need to be unsubbed for before they count as a returning sub? A week? A month? 7 years?

This is the sort of stuff people get tired of - twisting words and stats to fit an argument, instead of just having a discussion.

[Whiskyjack]

if you wanna do vanilla AV
have i got a surprise for you
live actually has a more accurate version of classic AV then classic will (or alteast said it would, it may use this version now)

Given the inaccuracies of the event av it honestly leads me to believe that something went wrong with preserving the data of the original av and that only the 1.12 remained. It's close but there are some glaring omissions.

[WowIsDead64]

It was mentioned twice already, Classic wow brought back millions of subs to World of Warcraft.
My assumption is 3.5m subs.

Blizzard simply cherry pick their news. They tell us about subs gain record, but don't tell us about subs loss record one month after that.

[KaPe]

Blizzard simply cherry pick their news. They tell us about subs gain record, but don't tell us about subs loss record one month after that.

For all we know, it could be WoD 2.0* - millions of people returning to check it out and quitting shortly after that, once the hype died. 'Course, even if that happened, Blizzard would just go back to MAUs as a metric, without mentioning any specifics at all. Maybe "Classic has a healthy population", which can mean anything.

*well, it can't be as bad as that, it would mean every returning player was scared away, and that's certainly not true.

[Bakis]

It's sad to see so many people grossly inflate Classic's success. What they are doing is looking at the numbers that came to try out Classic, not those who will stay 6 months later. I'm happy that people are stoked about getting to play Classic, but the ones going on with "see how successful it is and how much better than retail it is" need to tone it down. Retail is evolution; Classic is stagnation. Deal with it.

You might be right but I seriously doubt it. Your so called evolution had a sub. curve ponting down since forever not to mention BLZ due to that conveniently decided not to release sub. data anymore.
So yea WoW retail is not a dead game, nor is it dying but it is steadily dying slowly and has been for years.

A natural game cycle.