“Race≠Faction” hopes aren’t dead yet

[jellmoo]

so, all the problems who re putting this game into the dumbster you think what is killing the game a Faction system that existe since the implementation?

We had meaningful conflicts before, the problem are the writers not the factions

removing we will be stuck with characters of races i don't like, i play horde to do quests and interact with horde races, not fucking humans and night elves, it was one of the reasons i scorn Legion with all my force

The root issue with the game is that the faction system makes zero sense. From a storytelling position it inherently limits what they can do. They keep having to create nonsensical plot points to have the Alliance and Horde fight. Within each group, you have races with little to nothing in common who are grouped together for no good reason. It's an ongoing conflict for no reason. Neither side actually has anything the other wants, and the bulk of their races are separated by a giant ocean.

Remove the factions and you can have stories where the races actually matter. Where conflict can happen at the kingdom level. Not just "We hate Orcs, so we attack them on sight". We can have stories where there are legitimate shades of grey. Where alliances can form and break. Betrayal can happen. Where not everything is turned into an overly simp;istic Us vs Them dynamic.

You're never going to be able to quest exclusively with the races you like. Shadowlands has the Alliance and Horde uesting in the same zones again. The narrative of an expansion will determine what questing is like.

[TristanTaylor]

The root issue with the game is that the faction system makes zero sense. From a storytelling position it inherently limits what they can do. They keep having to create nonsensical plot points to have the Alliance and Horde fight. Within each group, you have races with little to nothing in common who are grouped together for no good reason. It's an ongoing conflict for no reason. Neither side actually has anything the other wants, and the bulk of their races are separated by a giant ocean.

Remove the factions and you can have stories where the races actually matter. Where conflict can happen at the kingdom level. Not just "We hate Orcs, so we attack them on sight". We can have stories where there are legitimate shades of grey. Where alliances can form and break. Betrayal can happen. Where not everything is turned into an overly simp;istic Us vs Them dynamic.

You're never going to be able to quest exclusively with the races you like. Shadowlands has the Alliance and Horde uesting in the same zones again. The narrative of an expansion will determine what questing is like.

That's exactly it, the last expansion for sure, but even the last few, it's felt so forced to pit the Alliance against the Horde, and apparently it's "because that's where the game started" is the reasoning behind that. Well, here's a crazy thought, evolve the game.

If they really still need factions for some war type thing, make new ones, without race restrictions. The current factions work together so much, and even the NPC's have many friends from the other side that it's just becoming sad that we can't work together. I mean, the last two times someone tried to pit the factions against each other directly it seems that Alliance and Horde worked together to rid the world of those instigators.

Also, for those saying, "Blizzard is firm on it not happening" I will direct you over to Classic.

[Adoxe]

If they don't wanna do faction merge, this is the next best thing they can do and I really fucking hope they do. Something needs to change regarding factions. The new level 1-10 zone is the perfect opportunity to do this, give every race a choice at the end just like Pandaren and drop the language barrier, at least on RP servers if they don't want people to get bullied in PvP.

[Syegfryed]

The root issue with the game is that the faction system makes zero sense.

but it makes perfect sense, more than 2 factions would make even more sense, what do not make sense is do not have a faction system

From a storytelling position it inherently limits what they can do. They keep having to create nonsensical plot points to have the Alliance and Horde fight.

they don't need to create nonsensical plot points they can create logical plot points, again, the problem are the writers, not the plot;

Remove the factions and you can have stories where the races actually matter.

thats just wishful thinking, you can't be serious thinking blizzard will create stories for all wow races when they barely manage to create a story for the class halls, they barely do something now, and they are forced to represent those race in the horde/alliance quest

Races will not matter, we will just follow humans and elves everywhere, and fuck that.

You're never going to be able to quest exclusively with the races you like.

if its not alliance races im fine with it

[Cosmic Janitor]

Forget it man. This is Blizzard we are talking about. Even in an expansion about choice they announce some eye colors as a main feature. Hoping for actual RPG customization in regards to allegiances is just way beyond them. They still rue the day where they made the choice to let people play pandaren on both sides for some reason and have done alot since then to not repeat it, despite it making ALOT of sense with many races.

[Azerate]

Just let it go. Factions have been a thing for 15 years and somehow it didn't stop people enjoying the game.

[LostSinclair]

After all... there are still those grey’ed out faction symbols at character select, and patch 8.3.5 to be accounted for.

Honestly I never expected cross faction anything, but I personally thought it wouldn't happen because of technical limitations not just because a few blues thing the game "depends" on it, but ever since those grayed out ally/horde crests got added the idea of race restrictions being removed is what I thought the whole "end the faction was bs" we kept hearing was leading too, possibly even connected to an achievement or unlock quest like veteran of the fourth war, I mean no one can tell me the lore for this isn't there the sheer amount of times the Alliance and Horde came together to fight a common foe is just silly at this point, some individual people within the factions must have gotten ideas about being better off in the other one.

I asked this question on every forum I could in hopes of getting a QA about it, alas no one payed attention to little ol' me.

But given how the next (possible) Allied races of Shadowlands would be impossible to go left or right lore wise(you gotta admit some of those covenant races just scream 9.1/9.2 Allied Race material) them being neutral and picking the faction that would "bring them closer to their original covenants goal" makes sense.

So Omedon, here's hoping your right, Bfa managed to kill my Alliance Mythic raiding guild and I would love for some of the bigger names to crossover(you know plenty would just for the +15%) to start some sort of progress for fixing the imbalance.

[Nathasil]

It would be better than nothing....but honestly, the faction divide is just bad for the game at this point. It makes it much harder to do anything organized endgame as Alliance, it makes the BG Qs longer as Horde, it makes Warmode a laughing stock. All ratedPvP Systems ignore faction (they still don't allow you to group cross faction, of course, but you are fighting your own faction most of the time) - so the argument that factions are needed for PvP is just plain BS. The game itself proofs that.

It is not needed for story either. If you look at MoP or BFA the greatest conflict was INSIDE the Horde in both cases and in both cases it was a member of the Horde who lead the final battle against the warchief. The Alliance was "just there". So story does not need a faction divide, either.

Allowing races to freely chose their faction would probably lead to many Blood Elves in the Alliance and some Tauren...i could see Horde Druids go Night Elf simply to be proper Druids even though it does not make a lot of sense lore-wise.
It would also even further devaluate the story, as nobody actually believes Pandaren would kill each other over the color of their underwear - the same would be true for all neutral races. I guess that is not really important anymore since BFA destroyed most of the story anyway and patriotism is at an all time low in both factions. But it would still look stupid.

I guess i would take it if the alternative is "nothing"? But it would not solve any of the problems created by the faction divide...and it would not create any new gameplay possibilities. Getting rid of the hard faction barrier would allow to introduce actual NEW system for World-PvP and dynamic factions.

[jellmoo]

but it makes perfect sense, more than 2 factions would make even more sense, what do not make sense is do not have a faction system

Factions in their current form are nonsensical. Why are these races giving power and authority to another race? Why are they automatically at war with the opposite faction? Alliances absolutely make sense. Grouping up into factions that matter more than kingdom or race certainly don't.

they don't need to create nonsensical plot points they can create logical plot points, again, the problem are the writers, not the plot;

After 15 years, it's the plot. They had to rehash the exact same dictator plot to make the horde the antagonists yet again because there just isn't a legitimate reason for these groups to hate each other enough to continue a war that exists for no reason.

thats just wishful thinking, you can't be serious thinking blizzard will create stories for all wow races when they barely manage to create a story for the class halls, they barely do something now, and they are forced to represent those race in the horde/alliance quest

Why not? Why not create stories that tie together, where kingdoms and races have conflicts that don't automatically pull in every other race in a faction? Why not have interfaction conflict then? Instead of having Gnomes show up just because somebody remembered they are an Alliance race, have them have conflict with... I dunno... the Draenai. Instead of somebody remembering that there are Trolls, have them betray the Blood Elves for a tangible reason. Create conflict with meaning. Create stories that are more complex than red vs blue.

Races will not matter, we will just follow humans and elves everywhere, and fuck that.

That's the problem NOW. Let's move away from that.

[Flutterguy]

No. The factions can be in cold war which is what they usually are in WoW.

Factions in their current form are nonsensical. Why are these races giving power and authority to another race? Why are they automatically at war with the opposite faction? Alliances absolutely make sense. Grouping up into factions that matter more than kingdom or race certainly don't.



After 15 years, it's the plot. They had to rehash the exact same dictator plot to make the horde the antagonists yet again because there just isn't a legitimate reason for these groups to hate each other enough to continue a war that exists for no reason.



Why not? Why not create stories that tie together, where kingdoms and races have conflicts that don't automatically pull in every other race in a faction? Why not have interfaction conflict then? Instead of having Gnomes show up just because somebody remembered they are an Alliance race, have them have conflict with... I dunno... the Draenai. Instead of somebody remembering that there are Trolls, have them betray the Blood Elves for a tangible reason. Create conflict with meaning. Create stories that are more complex than red vs blue.



That's the problem NOW. Let's move away from that.

25 years. Warcraft didn't start in 2004.

[ghays]

hard pass from me, i don't want core horde races in my alliance might as well not have factions.

That’s what some people want.........sadly. Maybe they would be more comfortable with the latest ‘Hello Kitty’ xpac.

- - - Updated - - -

If they don't wanna do faction merge, this is the next best thing they can do and I really fucking hope they do. Something needs to change regarding factions. The new level 1-10 zone is the perfect opportunity to do this, give every race a choice at the end just like Pandaren and drop the language barrier, at least on RP servers if they don't want people to get bullied in PvP.

You’re right. Factions do need change. The conflict between Horde and Alliance should be intensified to its highest degree ever. Things have been far too chummy between the two groups, which is why these nonsense discussions get started.

Total war is the way forward. After all it’s fucking WARcraft.

[Tipton]

Some statements from Blizzard that don't add-up based on their actions.

Sure keep the faction divide. Then why have we got 'Mercenary Mode' for PVP, a feature that has been put in to enable shorter queue times for Horde Character on unrated battlegrounds.

PVP is actually the faction war in Warcraft. Yet we've got a feature specifically put in to mitigate the faction balance.

You can't say it's a pillar of the game, when you've already removed that pillar.

[jellmoo]

25 years. Warcraft didn't start in 2004.

These factions didn't exist until WoW though.

[Syegfryed]

Factions in their current form are nonsensical. Why are these races giving power and authority to another race?

for protection? for support? for resources? for friendship?

Why are they automatically at war with the opposite faction? Alliances absolutely make sense.

because the faction that they joined is at wat with the opposite one, the moment you join you became a target, friend of my enemy is my enemy.

After 15 years, it's the plot. They had to rehash the exact same dictator plot to make the horde the antagonists yet again because there just isn't a legitimate reason for these groups to hate each other enough to continue a war that exists for no reason.

there was legitimate reasons,there still conflict going on with dwarves and orcs in alterac, dwares and orc sin twilight highlands,orcs nd night elves, worgens and forsaken, humans and forsaken, dwarves and taurens, trolls and humans and so oon, they hd torehah a history simple because the writers are incompetent and bad.

They could make the alliance attck first to retake lorderon but no, they HAD to make Sylvanus as the pivotal and plot device characters for shadowlands

again, not the plot

Why not? Why not create stories that tie together, where kingdoms and races have conflicts that don't automatically pull in every other race in a faction?

but we aleady had that, just becaue the races and kingdoms are also red and blue don't dismiss those

how the heck you are going to do this without a faction system? that would be a fucking mess

Why not have interfaction conflict then? Instead of having Gnomes show up just because somebody remembered they are an Alliance race, have them have conflict with... I dunno... the Draenai.

so, the gnomsand draenei will have somehow a conflict, just like that, and you think that is fine

Instead of somebody remembering that there are Trolls, have them betray the Blood Elves for a tangible reason. Create conflict with meaning.

yes, trolls nd blood elves at conflict, but why, and why other races will join their fight, for what reason, a human will help trolls ainst elves, and orcs will help blood elves againsttrolls

fo no fucking reason, this is your idea of complex storie? cause this is nonsense, this would only work if warcraft2-3 and vanila to now neverexisted, wow 2 reboot version, right now is nonsense.

That's the problem NOW. Let's move away from that.

how is the problem now? in bfa i followed trolls, orcs, tauren, elves and even goblins, i don't want to move from that thank you

just because the writers shit in the story now we don't have to be so drastically to remove the factions entirely, that is not a solution

[KrayZ33]

I think it's stupid that enemy factions do often have both former alliance and horde members, but we - the savior of the world, aren't able to overcome racial differences and raid together for the greater good. Especially in Legion, when it was all about the class.

You'd think we require the best out of all we can muster, yet we always do fine with basically half of what azeroth has to offer..
Wasn't Legion lore telling us that the class hall leaders saved azeroth? It wasn't an "alliance" or "horde" thing... why not make the gameplay match the story. I don't get it.

[Philomene]

I think the only reason they're not getting rid of factions is because of the WAR in warcraft, but then there is only a A / H war when the story demands it, so that is a flimsy - at best - excuse. When I think about the story, at some point all the leaders who want to keep fighting should be deposed - after all how many Pyrrhic victories can their society handle? How many times do they need to stick their hand back into the fire to see if it is still hot?

The only reason is purely money and faction change paid service lmao why would they remove the limitations on the faction system when it brings them some money everyday? Unless the imbalance makes them lose money they won’t remove the faction limitations, easy as that, it has nothing to do with the story or whatever.

[wanax]

Cross faction PvE grouping is a rather logical step, the alliance in EU is all but dead at this point, so much so that even the lower tier of pugs are getting hard to find compared to if you are on the horde side.

They should not dissolve the factions, they should simply let you /invite your horde/alliance friends to the same group, for PvE purposes only.

What I find really stupid is that we can already cooperate, with WM off we can share the same rares out in the world, horde and alliance side by side, if you want to pvp, you can do it for the opposite faction in case there is a lack of players on their side. The pvp mercenary system should have been the last step, not the first.

Keep cities off limits, keep the 2 factions enemies in Warmode, keep camps and such off limits, quests, everything, just give us the ability to do dungeons and raids together.

This is my idea of what should happen too. You can’t hang out inother faction cities or towns but you can “merc mode” pve content

[Aoyi]

I agree that at this point, having Factions in Warcraft is meaningless. We've spent 15 years working together to fight the greater evil. Everytime a conflict breaks out, it's always resolved quickly and we're right back to working together again. It makes even less sense when you consider population imbalance for the raiding communities until you consider the ridiculous charge associated with going cross faction. It has to be a purely money decision at this point because there is plenty of "War in Warcraft" without factions. It's just against armies of bugs, scourge, demons, etc. All it does is prevent people being able to just play with their friends or force people to roll toons on a faction they may not like to play with their friends.

[Gurmech]

Orcs belong in camps, not Stormwind.

[monkaW]

What's up with people trying to turn Warcraft into Hello Kitty Online?

I legit will spam votekick when i see the opposing faction is in my group.