Asian humans from where?

[Aggrophobic]

Well, from asia obviously. What kind of a question is that?

"hot areas" eh?
This post is just so cringe it's silly.

[Syegfryed]

they always existed among the human race, but just now are represented, end.

[Temp1on2]

1. I agree there is no lore source written on that. My statement was purely from the matter of not having them in game for so long - which made me assume there either werent any or they were living somewhere else. Please note i have said about asians not about black/brown. I have since the beginning said that black/brown people were always in wow. Please stop misrepresenting this as "only white people".

Gameplay =/= lore. You know that very well, so stop trying to use that as an excuse here.

I'm not misrepresentation what you say. The argument you're using is the same regardless of what ethnic minority it is being used against. Point me to a lore source that says "humans are only white/black/brown" i.e. not asian. It doesn't exist because it is not cannon that humans can't be 'asian'.

2. It is a retcon only if there is no reason given for it - honestly it is enough for me to have a reason as - there were different Vrykul back in the old times, Asians lived on an island in the south seas or even a continent (sigh we get so many of them that one more cant be bad).

You're clearly misunderstang what retcon means. Retcon means to change existing lore.

An example of a retcon:

• The Eredar corrupted Sargeras
• Sargeras corrupted the Eredar.

Adding to existing lore is not a retcon. Besides, the inclusion of these customisation options are not even really an addition, it's just allowing in-game appearances to better reflect the universe. Are you going to argue that when High/Blood Elves got their updated skins (to stop using Night Elf models) in TBC that was a retcon???

3. I actually coneded this argument several posts ago - i agree with you now that meltingpot is possible due to different varieties of humans coexisting for several thousand years. As such either azeroth genetics dont exist or they work very differently from our world. So yeah you have convinced me it makes sense to have them live together . (Please note i usually assume that a fantasy world works like our world unless excplicitly stated otherwise - it turned out i am wrong on genetics in wow.

You say you concede this but you're still essentially using the genetic argument, just without explicitly stating it. If there is no explanation for visual variation then there is no reason why humans can't look different.

Your argument is essentially that <insert human kingdom> are (genetically) homogeneous and therefore someone who looks 'asian' couldn't possibly exist. But we don't know what precipitates visual variation so there is no reason why this couldn't be the case.

4. I have nothing against them even being changed with magic or just being that way from the start - i just wanna know if there is an lore/story connected to it or is it just bad storywriting. Countrary to what you think about me being a joke. I do not think asians would require any lore reason to exist if that was this way from the start of wow - i just want to know why we havent seen any up to this point. Again black/brown humans always were here (although new character models are for some weird reason more light skinned than the older ones) so they need no justification for being here. Again i conceded my miconception on genetics several posts ago.

What are you talking about? All Humans exist because of void magic.

I said you're a joke because you make huge assumptions in some places but then say its unacceptable in others. Inconsistent reasoning. You cherry-pick to suit your narrative.

Contrary to what I think? You flat out said that the inclusion of 'asian' humans should have an 'explanation', that they should have their own seperate kingdom.

The explanation is obvious, gameplay reasons. And that is why I said perhaps you have some passive bigotry, because instead of identifying the most obvious and apparent option (wow has always had extremely limited character customisation options) you jumped to the conclusion that this must be some retcon (which necessitates that there were no 'asian' humans before) and there needs to some in-unvierse explanation as to why they even exist - wow has never, ever talked about ethnicity with regards to humans why should they start now just to appease certain individuals obsession with the 'european' (buzzword for white) fantasy trope that barely holds water in warcraft.

5. I am not against including them in the game and i have never said so. You are assuming things i have never said or written. I think having more options in an RPG game is a good thing - and having a possibility of playing something new is cool. The reason you dont get is that if blizzard decided to suddenly introduce lets say purple humans i would want to know where are they from (corrupted by the void perhaps?). So no i am not against including them in the game - it is clear that you all think i dogwhistle and say things i dont even mean to say - i just want to say i am trying to be as fair reading into your arguments as possible and dont assume a dogwhistle. Can i ask you to do the same and respect people you disagree with?

You said you were against them unless they're explained somehow. Yet don't raise similar expectations of explanation for any other ethnicity.

Are you saying that in warcraft purple humans are equivalent to ethnically asian humans? Jesus. And you wonder why someone would call you bigoted?

[Slau]

Eh, I guess if you're saying that the lack of justification isn't a criteria for exclusion I don't really have a problem with that. Not gonna lie though, I think the real reason why we haven't seen other ethnicities up until now is because when the game was made they weren't included (or given a lore justification) due to a lack of foresight. Given that, I really think that it's totally acceptable to just retcon the whole thing and say that humans were always diverse; there have always been *some* options, so including more is probably in the spirit of what was originally intended anyway.

Well i am kind of happy we came to some sort of agreenment on that. Look i am not against including more varieties in a fantasy race - that would be silly because anything goes in wow. The way we differ is that i would want some sort of lore explanation rather than just a retcon (always preffering an in universe explanation rather than just a tool based one). That said human society in stormwind is already incredibly diverse as it is the only remnant of all human kingdoms in the world - having it being the melting pot seems acceptable explanation. Also it is all the barbers fault.

That said i would prefer them to have their own nation - why? because wouldnt it be cool to have an in universe explanation for more zones/areas in game? Just think about it an entire island nation of asian people (maybe japan or korea based? We already had china in pandaria). I just think it would be much cooler and make in universe sense.

[Tharivor]

That is a good one . So the actual lore reason is that the barber shop was in beta xD.

But to put it more simply i could get behind that if that was the official reason given if they also changed the vrykul story to accomodate that (ergo different kinds of vrykul for different kinds of humans) - remember Vrykul are titan constructs so they could have just been made that way - i would rather just have it being official.

That said i would still prefer them to be an island nation somewhere - if i had a choice i would make it a second human starting area (sort of like a pandaren one but with different architecture - maybe japanese?) - having an actual island/origin story to explore is always better than just thrwoing things into the game. But yeah i get that they are already making a new starter area - I would honestly be ok with it if they just bothered to explain it at all.

But they don't need to change the lore to accommodate them- the existence of black humans without black vrykul is proof that the transition from vrykul to human added some further physical characteristics previously unseen in the vrykul themselves. There is literally no need for any other explanation given what we have seen so far.

[Slau]

Gameplay =/= lore. You know that very well, so stop trying to use that as an excuse here.

I'm not misrepresentation what you say. The argument you're using is the same regardless of what ethnic minority it is being used against. Point me to a lore source that says "humans are only white/black/brown" i.e. not asian. It doesn't exist because it is not cannon that humans can't be 'asian'.



You're clearly misunderstang what retcon means. Retcon means to change existing lore.

An example of a retcon:

• The Eredar corrupted Sargeras
• Sargeras corrupted the Eredar.

Adding to existing lore is not a retcon. Besides, the inclusion of these customisation options are not even really an addition, it's just allowing in-game appearances to better reflect the universe. Are you going to argue that when High/Blood Elves got their updated skins (to stop using Night Elf models) in TBC that was a retcon???



You say you concede this but you're still essentially using the genetic argument, just without explicitly stating it. If there is no explanation for visual variation then there is no reason why humans can't look different.

Your argument is essentially that <insert human kingdom> are (genetically) homogeneous and therefore someone who looks 'asian' couldn't possibly exist. But we don't know what precipitates visual variation so there is no reason why this couldn't be the case.



What are you talking about? All Humans exist because of void magic.

I said you're a joke because you make huge assumptions in some places but then say its unacceptable in others. Inconsistent reasoning. You cherry-pick to suit your narrative.

Contrary to what I think? You flat out said that the inclusion of 'asian' humans should have an 'explanation', that they should have their own seperate kingdom.

The explanation is obvious, gameplay reasons. And that is why I said perhaps you have some passive bigotry, because instead of identifying the most obvious and apparent option (wow has always had extremely limited character customisation options) you jumped to the conclusion that this must be some retcon (which necessitates that there were no 'asian' humans before) and there needs to some in-unvierse explanation as to why they even exist - wow has never, ever talked about ethnicity with regards to humans why should they start now just to appease certain individuals obsession with the 'european' (buzzword for white) fantasy trope that barely holds water in warcraft.



You said you were against them unless they're explained somehow. Yet don't raise similar expectations of explanation for any other ethnicity.

Are you saying that in warcraft purple humans are equivalent to ethnically asian humans? Jesus. And you wonder why someone would call you bigoted?

1. I dont agree that gameplay > lore - we simply have different priorities - i think the story is the most important aspect of the game and it is one of the reasons i dont enjoy the game as much nowdays. Again we have different ideas about what is canon - i agree if we took as canon only things that were excplicitly stated you would be correct here and i would be incorrect. That said i take things shown and not told in game as canon - for example if i got to tanaris and see only one goblin town there a troll settlement and caverns of time i assume it is all there is there without being explicitly told that is the case. Now perhaps i am wrong about my approach to canon but if i see only black/white people in the game for 15 years i think i have an ok reason to suspect that they were not intended to be here. That said again i have nothing against introducing new lore that explains this - i am against not introducing new lore and introducing this.
2. You are right introducing new lore is not a retcon and i am not against this. As a matter of fact this is what i want to give a lore reason for this. Cant you notice you literally accuse me of not wanting the thing that i want? I do however think that not giving them a lore reason is a retcon although not a huge one (compared to the Eredar retcon you mentioned it is minor at best) and therefore it is not a big deal but i would prefer it not to be a retcon but rather an explanation. And yes countrary to what you say "european" people in wow (they are not european dude - they are fair skinned people from Azeroth) need a justification and they have it since they originate from Vrykul who also seem to be fair skinned. Now if i were blizzard i would just say there were other types of Vrykul back in the day and their descendants are asian like people - problem solved and it is not a retcon because the titans could have just arbitrarily built these kinds of Vrykul.
3. If my argument changed then it is not the same argument - what you seem to accuse me of is trying to get rid of something i am not even trying to get rid off. And stated above i do think everything in wow needs a reason for existence. The fact you dont see is that my solution to this in lore would actually make stormwind having asians in it viable although i admit it is weird to just agree that they were always here - it is not a well told story in my opinion. Also what is wrong with acutally wanting to see some day a japanese or korean inspired nation in wow someday? How in seven hells does it make me a bigot???
4. Werent humans cursed Vrykul? And i do not think warcraft is an european fantasy - If anything it started as a "western" fantasy but gradually included more and more cultural references to different places (China, Egypt, Trolls living in pyramids that seems to be inspired by native american cultures) - so no i do not think it is "european" therefore no asians - rather my line of thinking was
1. Stormwind was supposed to be the last big human city in the world (all other human kingdoms were said to be destroyed).
2. We have never seen an asian person in wow before (pandaren kind of tried to fill that role).
And yes it is true you can just explain it as a gameplay limitation from back in the day - My only point here was just to say i believe it would be better to have a lore reason rather than gameplay reason for this.
5. I have literally never stated such a thing - good luck finding a quote of it - you must have confused me with someone else or i might have expressed myself not clearly enough somewhere - care to provide the quote so we can fix the confusion - again please dont just attack me without providing a source.
6. Yes purple people are equivalent to asian people or to blue people or to white people or to green people - This is a fantasy universe - it is not meant to be the real world - i conceded the genetic argument (it really seems to be a failure - either genetics dont work in Azeroth or they work differently) - The humans in wow are humans in wow (i am not blind to cultural references but they are their own thing not a representation of our world) and therefore i think having an in game explanation is a viable opinion to have. And again countrary to what you think the humans in wow do have a justification for existance (Vrykul - Titans) and in real world different kinds of people exist because of their ancestry being different (geographical split and different environemnt conditions). Again i fail to see how having a justification is a bad thing - i genuinely thing it is better than just including them with a gameplay excuse.

- - - Updated - - -

But they don't need to change the lore to accommodate them- the existence of black humans without black vrykul is proof that the transition from vrykul to human added some further physical characteristics previously unseen in the vrykul themselves. There is literally no need for any other explanation given what we have seen so far.

I have not thought about that and you might be right here - after all we already have black people with no black vrykul around so perhaps that one does not need any further explanation. That said wouldnt it be cooler to have a sort of japan for wow?

- - - Updated - - -

Eh, I guess if you're saying that the lack of justification isn't a criteria for exclusion I don't really have a problem with that. Not gonna lie though, I think the real reason why we haven't seen other ethnicities up until now is because when the game was made they weren't included (or given a lore justification) due to a lack of foresight. Given that, I really think that it's totally acceptable to just retcon the whole thing and say that humans were always diverse; there have always been *some* options, so including more is probably in the spirit of what was originally intended anyway.

Ah one more thing - in Lotro there are humans that are blue skinned from Nurn. Nurn is a place in Mordor where humans used to live before Sauron came and we know absolutely nothing about them from Tolkien's writing. The explanation for that could be that they are different or changed byt magic of Sauron. Seeing them in game as given their own actual characteristics is introducing new lore and i am fine with that in an adaptation. That said if they made people of Rohan blue you can imagine i would have a problem from that . Also countrary to most people seem to think Gondor having darker skinned people makes sense because Gondor was never a nation of one ethnicity (also in game fair skin is still a majority - you can just see the cultural infleunce from the south which i find to be a much closer to reality interpretation).

Also about The world of Ice and Fire - there is a youtuber called the dragon demands that showed a very interesting GoT prequel where the different factions of Valyrians strive to power. The concept had racial variety because Valyrian lords were supposed to conquer other lands and live there as well and i have no problem whatsoever with this (link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXAL...Q_6DOP&index=2). It is all about geographic and cultural sense rather than inclusion, non inclusion to me - i like stories to be better by introducing new themes rather than just ignoring them /.

[Astalnar]

Or you don't need any of that, and humans were supposed to have that variance in appearance from the start but were held back by technical restrictions.
Humans already had varied skin tones, now they'll have features to accompany them.

Sure, that seems plausible considering we're talking about American developer.

[Khaza-R]

Many things has always been in the game universe, but it took a while before it was actually in the game.
We've always had dark skin options, but with caucasian face structures. A halfarsed attempt to have all the real world human races included.
I see no harm in getting more customization options. I hope/assume that we can combine white skin with those new hair options. i always wanted a buzzcut, instead of bald.

Precisely this.

The new options are nothing more than an elaboration on options that were meant to be there since Vanilla. If you have a problem with it then you're just blind.

[darkdude103]

From Asian Vrykul

[ConstantinetheGreat]

If you're going to appropriate it at least spell it correctly.

Besides plenty of white boys in New Zealand perform haka, it mostly results in second hand embarrassment unless it is a sports team.

I fixed it. Thanks for letting me know. I was wondering about that. From an outsider's perspective I think it's pretty cool Maori (spelled right?) culture has left its mark on the entire country regardless of ethnicity. I've worked with Kiwi soldiers and it seems they've adopted the Maori warrior archetype into their identity. We've done something similar with the indigenous peoples if North America in the US Army, including them in our heraldry, naming our helicopters after them, crediting them with the tactics employed by our Special Forces and Rangers, though it seems to a lesser extent than what has occurred on New Zealand.

[Thage]

Considering the wide-ranging variety of skin colors found in humans since Vanilla, it's safe to say humans of the various kingdoms have always had multiple ethnicities (or at least have done so for long enough that it's not considered anything especially noteworthy), the main difference is that in Shadowlands, we're getting facial and hair customization that helps further emphasize this.

[VinceVega]

And again we have every right to complain about that because this is a story/lore retcon - you want to introduce asians to wow - fine but where are they from. Countrary to what you think there is no such thing as a "melting" pot forever. After a while the traits that different people represent will merge due to interbreeding and there will be no melting pot.

By the same logic there would never have been that many races on azeroth at all. They can crossbread. And apart form Draenei/Orcs/Worgen EVERY race has been on Azeroth for Millenia.
The same reason there are different races there are different ethnicities in the human race.
Like i said: You WILL NEVER get an lore explanation!! Never. You can complain, stomp your foot as much as you want.

Also the moment they give a explanation... say they are humans from kalimdor who set sail there thousand of years ago and lived in Tanaris but no one noticed. The forum would complain, because it would be a retcon again. Because they have not been there before.

New continent. Again retcon and the good old, why haven't we seen this island before, also why can we play them in the eastern kingdoms then?

There is no way to introduce them without someone feeling the need to complain.

So: no explanation is the best explanation. Just live with it. It is a change to reflect our world not Azeroth.

PP: Like people already said, there have been slightly Asian looking player models in the old ones. It just got lost in the update. So... it is more a ret-retcon. As they made it as it was before.

[Slau]

By the same logic there would never have been that many races on azeroth at all. They can crossbread. And apart form Draenei/Orcs/Worgen EVERY race has been on Azeroth for Millenia.
The same reason there are different races there are different ethnicities in the human race.
Like i said: You WILL NEVER get an lore explanation!! Never. You can complain, stomp your foot as much as you want.

Also the moment they give a explanation... say they are humans from kalimdor who set sail there thousand of years ago and lived in Tanaris but no one noticed. The forum would complain, because it would be a retcon again. Because they have not been there before.

New continent. Again retcon and the good old, why haven't we seen this island before, also why can we play them in the eastern kingdoms then?

There is no way to introduce them without someone feeling the need to complain.

So: no explanation is the best explanation. Just live with it. It is a change to reflect our world not Azeroth.

PP: Like people already said, there have been slightly Asian looking player models in the old ones. It just got lost in the update. So... it is more a ret-retcon. As they made it as it was before.

i conceded the melting pot argument already - it is true that people would always complain but lets just be honest here blizzard spawned an entire continent of fat humans but cant be bothered to do an asian island? Ehh is the only answer i have to that.

[Temp1on2]

1. I dont agree that gameplay > lore - we simply have different priorities - i think the story is the most important aspect of the game and it is one of the reasons i dont enjoy the game as much nowdays.

What in the world are you talking about?! You've convinced me you are either a troll or simply can't read.

I said the exact opposite of gameplay > lore. I said "gameplay=/= lore".

The reason there haven't been other ethnicities in-game is because of gameplay constraints (specifically there haven't been a wide variety of customisation options). It is you who are saying that gameplay > lore, because you're saying that because you haven't seen them in-game they don't exist and therefore need an explanation.

Ethnic minorities have always been a part of the lore, they just haven't been represented in-game due to customisation restraints. Are you going to ask for an explanation as to why night elves have different skin colours?

Again we have different ideas about what is canon

There is your problem. What is and isn't cannon isn't subjective, it is objective. Something is cannon if it has been explicitly refereed to. Anything else is your "head cannon" and not official in anyway.

For example:

It is cannon that humans exist.
It is not cannon that all humans are <insert x minority>
Therefore, the appearance of <insert y minority> is not a retcon because no existing lore has been changed.

2. You are right introducing new lore is not a retcon and i am not against this.

So stop saying the inclusion of 'asian' humans is a retcon. It isn't. It's only a retcon if a lore source said 'asian' humans don't exist.

And yes countrary to what you say "european" people in wow (they are not european dude - they are fair skinned people from Azeroth) need a justification and they have it since they originate from Vrykul who also seem to be fair skinned.

You're experiencing some serious cognitive dissonance. You're the one arguing against 'asian' humans yet have the gall to try and correct me on using 'european'. I know full well there aren't Europeans in warcraft that is my entire point.

Now if i were blizzard i would just say there were other types of Vrykul back in the day and their descendants are asian like people - problem solved and it is not a retcon because the titans could have just arbitrarily built these kinds of Vrykul.

What are you talking about?!?! Their inclusion means exactly this, by definition.

3. If my argument changed then it is not the same argument

Your argument hasn't changed whatsoever, you're just trying to rephrase it in a slightly different way.

And stated above i do think everything in wow needs a reason for existence.

Where are your posts about why dark iron dwarves look different?

Where are your posts about why night elves have different shades of skin?

Where are your posts about why deadlords started looking different in cata and legion?

Where are your posts about why different infernals look different?

I could go on and on. You're only complaining about human ethnic minorities, there has to be a reason for this.

Werent humans cursed Vrykul?

Yes, why does that mean there can't be 'asian' humans?

2. We have never seen an asian person in wow before (pandaren kind of tried to fill that role).

That is not only factually incorrect but goes against what you yourself argued against in the beginning of your post. game-play limitations =/= lore.

And there is something seriously wrong with you if you think pandaren were meant to 'fill' a PC for asian people.

6. Yes purple people are equivalent to asian people or to blue people or to white people or to green people

There's something seriously wrong with you. And this sentence is entirely disingenuous as you haven't stated anywhere that you'd like an explanation as to why white humans have white skin when they descended from gold bronze and silver titanforged. It was the curse of FLESH not the curse of WHITE flesh.

To single out a specific naturally occurring human skin tone and self-righteously demand an explanation as though that were the equivalent of an unnatural one is beyond delusional.

[un_known]

disclaimer, this is NOT ment to be a racist post at all. This is ment for speculation and lore discussion.



With the introduction of Black and asian humans, it leaves us to wonder where they hail from. With other races, various skin colors and breeds we have homes for them. Dark iron dwarves from blackrock. Green furry trolls from the forsts.. etc.

Now with human kingdoms, almost all of them are based of European countries, mainly English. with a few variant European nations.

With the black humans, we could always say they are from more hot areas. We have desert thiefs in tanaris and uldum? maybe there could be towns and villages? Or just nomadic.

But asians, I dont see where they could come from, as humans didn't live in pandaria pre-mists. So where might they be from? Or maybe if we had a new nation of humans that were hidden away? After all, gilneus walled off for years, and kultiras was off doing their own thing since WC with very few being seen pre- BFA.

Edit: The point of this thread is to speculate, head cannon and come up with fun ideas of where the variant humans are from. From a made up land that currently doesnt exist, or a way to fit them into currently places, like someone mentioned an island off of pandaria that was never discovered untill now. And someone else mentioned other side of azeroth.

Asian: A small settlement of humans who found pandaria hundreds of years ago hid themselves until the cataclysm where they smuggled back to Azeroth when the war campaign ended, there they spread out made houses and families

[Rozz]

This thread has been off track and deviates from the topic to either troll or enter forbidden discussion. It will be closed.