Flying might not be for you.

[Garybear]

I like pathfinder because I don't do any raiding or m+ and this gives me something to work towards.

[Cosmic Janitor]

FF14 has the best way to do flying I think. As you quest and go through the you collect uhhh, objects I guess, I can't remember what they're called, and in order to get to certain areas you need to complete the story quests for that zone, and when you have them all, you can fly. So as soon as you've seen the content basically, you can fly. Much better than waiting for pathfinder imo.

Aether Currents. Essentially none of the mounts you have can just fly on their own without magic (at least with you on top of it). To learn how to fly via that magic in a zone you need to learn about the local magic currents. Once you have, you can fly fly with that that beefy monster that has neither wings nor is in any way aerodynamic enough to stay afloat. It's still gamey, but vastly superior to the pathfinder rubbish where I need to earn exalted with some turtles for some nonsensical reason.

[salate]

There are pluses and minuses about flying and pathfinder in particular.

I have all pathfinders, even in addon (WoD) I barely played, so it was all like that "Omg I played the game, spent so low effort and still have it".

But I partly changed my mind when my girlfriend started to play the game. She likes pets, but cant gather pets fast because she has no flying in Draenor. This is so unfriendly to new players, forcing it to do old content they dont need at all.

While new players cant really "feel" all the world, because of restrictions and forcing people so farm quests/outdated contend, people who played during all wow's life time can speak alotta about doing stuff.

And I understand why they put the achievement in game. (Actually the OP explained it well).

So I really agree with people above saying they should remove flying at all or add it on less chaotic terms... Because It's painful to see when your gf wants to find another rare pet but she has to ask me to help her. This is a simple example, I guess different people have different opinion, familiar situations like mine etc.

I'd say > better to unlock the flying after ~time spent on character/zone.

Its really easy to farm pathfinder if you play the game, really. But not everyone can play the way blizz us wants to play. They brought us LFR aka tourist mode, they made LFD, everything is really playerfriendly, but flying? Hehe...

Well, I'm another guy who understands why they made achi, understand why playerbase suffer, still have all achies :| Really dunno how to make everything happy with current situation. I will certainly have flying in Shadowlands. Will I be happy? I dont think so. I will play the game, some people wont ever see flying even in BfA because... Because Blizzard want them to do so. Writing this post made me realize that they are so playerfriendly and unfriendly in the same time

[bigbleach]

After 3 weeks in the game I'm not trying to run around a mountain to get to a poorly placed WQ, I've seen it all already and flying should be unlocked. If Blizz doesn't like flying they should remove it from all versions of the game, otherwise the cat is out of the bag and they need to allow it naturally. Pretty much a month into a new expansion it should be open for all zones, any zones added after that get a 2 week window of no flying.

I'm not a fan of Pathfinder, mainly because it basically begs players to burn out on game content to earn it.

burn out doing some world quests..? It is literally 2 reps that can be completed in like 2 weeks. I prefer the game with flying, but I do believe a period of no flying, such as unlocking later with pathfinder, is better for the game than just having it open from the start.

[Pakheth]

I might be alone on this but I didn't feel like we needed flying as much in Legion as we had many tools to get around with like the chain launcher in Storm Peaks and the climbing spots in Suramar. However in BfA I definitely feel like we need it.

I am a stoic defender of flying in general and I find Blizzard's approach to it since WoD to be childish. They refuse to make the world with flying in mind and then blame flying for ruining the experience. They managed to do this fine from TBC through MoP, making zones with areas only available through flight like Skettis, Storm Peaks and the many peaks of Jade Forest. The zones were also larger which made flight in a sense more needed due to the greater distance.
People must also remember that zone design has changed drastically from the early days of wow to now with much more stuff being placed in the way now than before.

While I support flying I still support leveling without and acquiring it at max level. In many cases I prefer leveling without flying even where I have it unlocked because of the immersion. That immersion is not needed on WQ nr. 2000 however.


If we are to keep pathfinder I would prefer we leave boring ass reputations out of it and instead focus on quest completion and exploration. Maybe do a questchain to unlock flying itself that fits the theme of the expansion.

[LuminaL]

And honestly, I think the zones are way more beautiful from the air. Naz is a fucking nightmare on the ground, but from the air it's a way more enjoyable and way better looking zone.

sadly almost all people who repeat the nonsense words of blizzard devs dont even understand it, moving around thro the air is what makes me enjoy the zone and appreciate the work they have put into the game. for example boralus, couldnt be more boring considering instead of the luxury part of the city, we got the lowky back allies, now you fly, around it, and its suddenly one of the most beautiful cities. probably better than even stormwind.

[Hctaz]

So if you don't spend time in that open world. If you're primarily a raider, M+, PvPer. Then chances are flight isn't really for you and is meant to be a reward for those out experiencing the open world.

But see I was a M+ and a mythic raider. US 64th guild to kill Mythic Argus in Antorus.

And I can tell you for a fact that doing the world content is absolutely relevant to you if you expect to be doing high level content. Maybe it's been toned down in BfA- I don't know for sure because I quit after the lackluster opening first patch- but it was certainly something you did a LOT of in Legion.

[Lane]

Every player gets a teleport on a 5 minute CD. This is already in the game.

Teleport to where? I'm talking about waypoints.

- - - Updated - - -

I might be alone on this but I didn't feel like we needed flying as much in Legion as we had many tools to get around with like the chain launcher in Storm Peaks and the climbing spots in Suramar. However in BfA I definitely feel like we need it.

Would you mind elaborating? I don't have BfA so I don't know what it's like. I've been wondering what class I should do BfA Pathfinder on when the time comes. I did DH in Legion, which I did not regret, if BfA's terrain is worse I may do DH again, if not then I'd pick a human for the rep bonus.

And I don't even ask to make WHOLE game casual/alt-friendly. But there should be at least some casual/alt-friendly content on release. That's, what isn't fair. Hardcores have their 100% guaranteed hardcore content, so they can blindly pre-order any xpack and never make mistake. But casuals don't have their guaranteed casual content at release. So, for example, I always have to wait and see. Till some later content patches. As, you know, all major features, like level squish and customization options, will be available for free. And there won't be anything in Shadowlands release, worth my money.

Yep. Blizzard lost my trust with WoD. I'll never pre-order or even purchase at launch again probably, at least not without a lot of bonuses and I don't see that happening. I don't see the point of buying until at least 6 months into the expansion for all the reasons you listed.

[Jazzhands]

So if i clear mythic raid onec i should get every week mailed mythic gear? I alredy explored raid and killed all bossses so let me skip content and give me rewards.

Yeah, no, that's a bad comparison. Flying makes world content go faster, it doesn't allow you to skip it and still get rewards. In WoD and BFA you unlocked shortcuts after 4 clears, that's basically what the raid equivalent is, after doing the content for awhile you can skip around and only do bosses that you need instead of having to waste time with a full clear. You still have to do the content, it just goes a little faster, because at first it's fun but after awhile it starts to feel like a chore, so having it go faster makes it more tolerable.

- - - Updated - - -

Aether Currents. Essentially none of the mounts you have can just fly on their own without magic (at least with you on top of it). To learn how to fly via that magic in a zone you need to learn about the local magic currents. Once you have, you can fly fly with that that beefy monster that has neither wings nor is in any way aerodynamic enough to stay afloat. It's still gamey, but vastly superior to the pathfinder rubbish where I need to earn exalted with some turtles for some nonsensical reason.

Yeah that's it. I played FF14 at apparently the absolute worst time in the games history, it was at the start of one of the expansions and there was pretty much no end game other than spamming two dungeons so I basically quit as soon as I was done leveling. I think is was Stormblood? That's literally how bad it was, I can't even remember the expansion name. Apparently the current one is super good though so I might try it again sometime.

[kaintk]

dear blizz: remove all those huge spiral mountain and i will accept a game without flying, but no , you have to put spiral thing everywhere, cavern entry so well hidden, you need google to find them and wq on top of spiraling unicorn blueberry moutain

so yes, flying is a gift for the game, it made the game more fun and less fucking boring to explore

right now i returned to the game after 9 month of absence because bfa suck..
the reason of my return is because i love to do everything from current content before a next expansion and right now i have to do the 2 boring new reputation of the gnome and naz until revered to unblock flying and dear peoples... it is the most fucking boring thing i ever did in the game, seriously all those fucking spiral mountain made me hate the game and i know when flying will be unlock, suddenly the game will be 1000x more fun

[Revamp Man]

They need to use flying and design around it instead of treating it like a burden

[SirCowdog]

This has been explained by the devs years ago and comes back sometimes during ask the devs.
They put in a great amount of effort into the zones / details and the story a zone tells. It is not only the quests with the written word but also the zones showing the story. (ruins of great kingdoms / decay etc etc)
Blizzard and the Devs think it is a waste to be able to trivialize all that new content by instantly flying through it.

So that's where they introduced pathfinder. And maybe went a bit too far by letting it take 1 year or more before you can fly. But we will not lose pathfinder or get flying back instantly at max level.



Wanting to remove flying was a bad idea in general, but they needed a change because of the reasons above.

They didn't "Need" to change anything. Removing a greatly enjoyed feature of the game in order to create a pretty environment is a poor reason. It's akin to the weak level design in FPS games where players are not allowed to open doors, and MUST wait for an NPC to spew some dialogue and slowly walk to the door before being able to proceed. It's the same as unskippable cutscenes. If you have to force someone to figuratively have their eyes taped open in order to "appeciate" your "art", then your art is shit.

Blizzard needs to have enough faith in their design, and enough confidence to understand that not everyone wants to RP walk through the game and poke their faces into every texture. Some people are only there for the gameplay. Some want to clear content as fast as possible. Some want to enjoy the freedom that flight represents. Some appreciate the artistic value of the entire zone when seen from above.

Not to mention the fact that Blizzard very often puts the most important parts of the story in places that are NOT the game. Artbooks, novels, interviews, etc. And in BfA we saw almost EVERY important story moment in the war campaign being placed in instanced missions, which would be the PERFECT place to restrict flying so the story can be presented.

The open world needs to be OPEN. Blizzard needs to pull the stick out of their ass about flight and start designing the open world areas of the game to not only handle flying, but USE flying to create a better sense of immersion and wonder. The open world is not a dungeon. It's not a cutscene. It's not an on-rails ride. It's the OPEN. FUCKING. WORLD....

... right now it's more of the closed, walking, grounded, island.

[Augusta138]

They didn't "Need" to change anything. Removing a greatly enjoyed feature of the game in order to create a pretty environment is a poor reason. It's akin to the weak level design in FPS games where players are not allowed to open doors, and MUST wait for an NPC to spew some dialogue and slowly walk to the door before being able to proceed. It's the same as unskippable cutscenes. If you have to force someone to figuratively have their eyes taped open in order to "appeciate" your "art", then your art is shit.

Blizzard needs to have enough faith in their design, and enough confidence to understand that not everyone wants to RP walk through the game and poke their faces into every texture. Some people are only there for the gameplay. Some want to clear content as fast as possible. Some want to enjoy the freedom that flight represents. Some appreciate the artistic value of the entire zone when seen from above.

Not to mention the fact that Blizzard very often puts the most important parts of the story in places that are NOT the game. Artbooks, novels, interviews, etc. And in BfA we saw almost EVERY important story moment in the war campaign being placed in instanced missions, which would be the PERFECT place to restrict flying so the story can be presented.

The open world needs to be OPEN. Blizzard needs to pull the stick out of their ass about flight and start designing the open world areas of the game to not only handle flying, but USE flying to create a better sense of immersion and wonder. The open world is not a dungeon. It's not a cutscene. It's not an on-rails ride. It's the OPEN. FUCKING. WORLD....

... right now it's more of the closed, walking, grounded, island.

You can disagree with it all you want, i simply presented you the reason why we have flying in its current form.

My debate isnt even with disagree-ing with the PF stuff itself.
Since i do think it can be handled better.

But everyone has their opinion and cant be told apparently that there is a reason for the ''problem''
Disagreeing with their reason is fine, it still is their reason to make PF stuff and make it work like it works atm.

[SirCowdog]

You can disagree with it all you want, i simply presented you the reason why we have flying in its current form.

My debate isnt even with disagree-ing with the PF stuff itself.
Since i do think it can be handled better.

But everyone has their opinion and cant be told apparently that there is a reason for the ''problem''
Disagreeing with their reason is fine, it still is their reason to make PF stuff and make it work like it works atm.

Yes, but the more people who understand that their reasons are bad...and in some ways not even true....the better.

[Niwes]

imo the problem isnt flying. its the game design.

noflying in wow classic makes totally sense, because the world is dangerous. you have to plan your route. watch mob groups carefully when you ride. because if they unmount you and there are more than 3 you are maybe dead. and have a long walk from the grave.

in retail on the other side, unmounting is just annoying. you have to blast brainless away 10+ mobs with aoe without any danger, mount up again and thats it. its just annoying.

so in the end noflying is worthless without a game design supporting it.

[smityx]

I believe flying takes more away from the game than it adds. It trivialises any outdoors content(so does massive power creep however).
It removes any sense of danger since you can ignore terrain and fly over any pack any escape any situation.

Does any gear beyond leveling greens not also trivialize outdoor content. All flight does is give me quicker access to that trivial content so I can get what I wanted to get accomplished for that session done and move on. Also me flying doesn't not effect you one bit less you are wanting grounded "casuals/newbs" to harass in PvP.

[Exystredofar]

Do you realize that getting rewards ehile skipping terain and content is considered cheating in most games?

Do you realize that Blizzard developed and supports flying in their game, and that no external programs or rule breaking are involved at all?

[Aliven]

You can disagree with it all you want, i simply presented you the reason why we have flying in its current form.

My debate isnt even with disagree-ing with the PF stuff itself.
Since i do think it can be handled better.

But everyone has their opinion and cant be told apparently that there is a reason for the ''problem''
Disagreeing with their reason is fine, it still is their reason to make PF stuff and make it work like it works atm.

You presented their statement, which is PR bullshit disproven by facts, like mentioned above.

The ONLY reason is to stretch sub time as much as possible.

[Augusta138]

You presented their statement, which is PR bullshit disproven by facts, like mentioned above.

The ONLY reason is to stretch sub time as much as possible.

Disproving a statement by facts doesnt mean jackshit if they are happy with the system.

People asked in this topic why PF got added anyway.

ONCE AGAIN:

I do not approve of PF in its current form.
However it got implemented with said reason and Blizzard is fine with their current system.

AND their reasoning behind it.

[Aliven]

Disproving a statement by facts doesnt mean jackshit if they are happy with the system.

People asked in this topic why PF got added anyway.

ONCE AGAIN:

I do not approve of PF in its current form.
However it got implemented with said reason and Blizzard is fine with their current system.

AND their reasoning behind it.

And that mean jack shit :P