Factions stay, no cross-faction mode

[Xath]

That's not a valid argument. Clearly if you want to be in a top 100 guild, you're going to min/max to the extreme and that includes going horde for the superior raiding racials. Are you trying to push world firsts or realm firsts? Are you trying to break the top 100? If so, you're probably horde and if not, then you're not trying to do that in the first place. What you're saying is: "The 1% elite raiders are predominantly horde, therefore there should be cross faction PvE". Blizzard will never scrap factions for something so absurd.

Racials have been balanced since legion if anything alliance has a slight advantage in M+ right now due to night elves and raids it's basically null.

[crakerjack]

Racials have been balanced since legion if anything alliance has a slight advantage in M+ right now due to night elves and raids it's basically null.

How are you going to say it's null for raiding when your justification for cross faction PvE was citing how many alliance guilds are in the top 100 for raiding? There's more horde guilds in the top 100 simply because their racials are superior for raiding.

[Xath]

How are you going to say it's null for raiding when your justification for cross faction PvE was citing how many alliance guilds are in the top 100 for raiding? There's more horde guilds in the top 100 simply because their racials are superior for raiding.

No they are in the top 100 because it hit a tipping point which made recruiting insanely hard even at a high level. Midwinter didn't swap because of racials they swapped because recruiting even for them was getting crazy hard.

[crakerjack]

No they are in the top 100 because it hit a tipping point which made recruiting insanely hard even at a high level. Midwinter didn't swap because of racials they swapped because recruiting even for them was getting crazy hard.

I'm sure that played a part in why they switched, but think about it. If a mythic raider is huge on min/maxing, do you think they take the ability that gets them out of stuns, slows, stationary visibility or do they take the extra AP/SP with 1% increase to pet damage, increased haste etc? Mythic raiders are proficient and do mechanics precisely. They want whatever racials are going to boost their numbers. Higher numbers whether they're 1-3% more dps is enough justification. That's why there's an imbalance between the 2 factions when it comes to hardcore raiding. Again it's just the 1% of raiders and their fans. Still doesn't justify cross faction content, a concept that has been around since the beginning.

[Evilfish]

High end guilds will always have potential recruits because high end players will crowd up to join them.

[Doffen]

Oh give me a break with your forum psychologist crap. How is it that every time someone does not agree with you people they are insecure or something? Face it, you promoted a stupid idea that made no sense and it got turned down real fast. That's it. There's no need to make a big deal out of it by pretending the guys who called your idea for what it was are this and that. Grow up.

And I suppose it's impossible for you to grasp that the ruination of factions IS the bad idea and therefore the argument itself. Merc mode is not an argument, neither is the Alliance dying or whatever stupid crap you people spewed with every breath you could muster. It's just another dumb idea to throw in the huge pile. What's sad is that you people actually talked about it so much that you came to believe it yourselves and boom. Reality hit you. People don't want this, there's absolutely no reason to do it and Blizz won't give up a money-making feature like faction change.

It's probably one of the silliest post I've read on this forum. You should look in the mirror. And you keep lying that I said Alliance is dying, that mercenary mode is not an argument, when we have many more arguments than that. I have no problems arguing with people who actually wants to argue properly, and not turn into insults and mocking other people because they are so insecure. Just read your posts man, it's just non-argumentative posts where you just try to say that I am stupid for having an idea, an idea that is shared among quite a few others. You keep parroting the idea that mercenary mode is the only argument while you can't even answer that one single thing about mercenary mode because you don't have any argument against it.

The main argument is that cross-faction mode would open up for more options, more choices, player agency and so on. It would shorten queues and make gameplay in WoW a lot better. But the only thing you can come up with is lying for what people say, and ignoring every other point except one you can't argue against even. I thought you were tired of me dancing? It's kinda funny you accuse me for that, since you are a champion when it comes to avoiding the points.

Grow up.

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High end guilds will always have potential recruits because high end players will crowd up to join them.

Yeah, High end guilds on the Horde will have no problem.

Just gonna note this as 1 of 5 good arguments for cross-faction play. If you want to hear the others again, let me know.

[Gorsameth]

High end guilds will always have potential recruits because high end players will crowd up to join them.

And people are telling you that isn't happening for Alliance guilds because there is a lack of Alliance raiders, and the guilds themselves are telling you this when they switch to Horde to get access to more raiders.

Yet somehow you still aren't getting this.

[KaPe]

And people are telling you that isn't happening for Alliance guilds because there is a lack of Alliance raiders, and the guilds themselves are telling you this when they switch to Horde to get access to more raiders.

Yet somehow you still aren't getting this.

The logic is apparently "one Alliance guild per realm is more than enough", since that's pretty much what it comes down to. All the decent raiders join that one, and if it fails, that's it - your only choice at that point is to go Horde and have ten different guilds to choose from.

[Evilfish]

And people are telling you that isn't happening for Alliance guilds because there is a lack of Alliance raiders, and the guilds themselves are telling you this when they switch to Horde to get access to more raiders.

Yet somehow you still aren't getting this.

Which guilds? Most of them are on Alliance dominated servers, above 70% more Alliance than Horde on those servers alone. And considering the numeric difference between factions is about 10% on each EU and US, I'm not getting what?

[Doffen]

Which guilds? Most of them are on Alliance dominated servers, above 70% more Alliance than Horde on those servers alone. And considering the numeric difference between factions is about 10% on each EU and US, I'm not getting what?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/server/...etric=progress
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/server/...etric=progress
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/server/...etric=progress


Look at all the Alliance guilds man. One guild at 3 of 8. "Alliance dominated servers" Draenor-EU is 95% Horde. Tarren Mill the same. Illidan-US 97%. All three servers are in the high end of mythic raiding.

I am not sure what you know, but when it comes to mythic raiding, you got no clue. I would give up if I were you.

[Gorsameth]

Which guilds? Most of them are on Alliance dominated servers, above 70% more Alliance than Horde on those servers alone. And considering the numeric difference between factions is about 10% on each EU and US, I'm not getting what?

Oh I donno, guilds like Midwinter

Have some exciting news to share: our Guild will soon be moving over to Horde! While the Alliance fan boy in me is a little sad, it's hard to argue against the logic behind such a move. The main factor involved behind this decision would be the dwindling Alliance population among the more competitive player base, which is especially beneficial when activity within the guild has died down a bit which is pretty standard during the downtime between expansions. We will be remaining on the Sargeras server for the time being. It's possible we may decide to rock the Blue again before BfA is launched if Blizzard makes Alliance more appealing leading up to the new expansion, but the current faction imbalance has become too hard to ignore, even for us, and we will embrace the new look for the foreseeable future. See ya boys on the other side!

But I'm sure you will find another excuse to ignore it.

[KaPe]

Oh I donno, guilds like Midwinter
But I'm sure you will find another excuse to ignore it.

Well, duh. They have lower rankings than two Alliance guilds. This clearly proves that it's possible to succeed as Alliance... nevermind that both of them are Oceanic, which is exception to the rule. And that's it's still 18 Horde guilds in top 20.

Either way, such reaction is expected from random forum posters going "Rawr, it's WARCRAFT (mercenary mode is non-canon, but PvE grouping would clearly destroy lore!!!)". The fact that Ion still ignores the problem, despite being Mythic raider himself... Is there no one else on the team that raids at a decent level and actually plays Alliance? ... Wait, of course there isn't.

[Doffen]

Well, duh. They have lower rankings than two Alliance guilds. This clearly proves that it's possible to succeed as Alliance... nevermind that both of them are Oceanic, which is exception to the rule. And that's it's still 18 Horde guilds in top 20.

That's also part of the argument for cross-faction play, when it comes to Oceania, where Alliance have most of the top players. Some people here focus a lot on Alliance are a bunch of "whiners", when opening up for cross-faction PvE would help all players that wants to raid at the highest level, Horde players included.

Which is why arguing for cross-faction pve makes sense, it would only be beneficial for the player-base.

[Xath]

Which guilds? Most of them are on Alliance dominated servers, above 70% more Alliance than Horde on those servers alone. And considering the numeric difference between factions is about 10% on each EU and US, I'm not getting what?

Midwinter Alacrity Easy ScrubBusters etc all used to be alliance.

[rowaasr13]

Strange, 90% of horde players I knew were with garrosh and sylvanas. It was only on forums like this that peaceful hippy losers would bash them and support alliance sucking traitors like thrall and saurfang

That's because every of us are obviously more eager to communicate with people of same mindset. It's called "perception bubble". Type "pandaria garrosh poll" or "garrosh hate poll" into search engine and be free of it. (SPOILER: it's generally even with about 10% skewed towards "hate")

Wc3 horde is insignificant compared to the real horde of wc1-2. Thrall is a weak leader who relies on bad writing

Yawn, 4 fucking millions of copies of WC3 that sold in month and eager anticipation of WoW inspired by WC3 says that your words hold no weight. Maybe you prefer 2934293746963960395th chaotic evil fantasy orc copypasta, but much more people enjoyed more intricate and nuanced Horde of WC3.

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Fortunately for us, nobody gives a crap what you think, especially blizzard.

Evidently from many posts in this very thread and on other WoW forums, lots of people do give a crap about artificial barriers to playing group content.

[trapmaster]

To be honest i really want cross faction happen cuz an immature childish war for 15 years horde vs alliance are already OUTDATED AND OLD NEWS. Like, move the fuck on or something...

[Beefhammer]

To be honest i really want cross faction happen cuz an immature childish war for 15 years horde vs alliance are already OUTDATED AND OLD NEWS. Like, move the fuck on or something...

It was outdated and old when WoW came out considering all sides, even though they weren't really factions yet, put aside their differences to fuck up Archimonde.

They whole it would remove what makes Warcraft, Warcraft is utter BS. Considering the events at Mt. Hyjal, Black Temple, Ice Crown Citadel, SoO, all aspects in Legion, and after the events at Dazar'alor, both factions seem to have absolutely no fucking problem working with and communicating with each other

I'm not advocating for faction removal, just drop all the other restrictions, let us group up with each other and talk to each other man.

[JacobusRex]

Warmode stays, faction tension stays, because Activision says so. - Ion Hazzikostas, Activision Meat Puppet

[justandulas]

That's because every of us are obviously more eager to communicate with people of same mindset. It's called "perception bubble". Type "pandaria garrosh poll" or "garrosh hate poll" into search engine and be free of it. (SPOILER: it's generally even with about 10% skewed towards "hate")

Yawn, 4 fucking millions of copies of WC3 that sold in month and eager anticipation of WoW inspired by WC3 says that your words hold no weight. Maybe you prefer 2934293746963960395th chaotic evil fantasy orc copypasta, but much more people enjoyed more intricate and nuanced Horde of WC3.

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Evidently from many posts in this very thread and on other WoW forums, lots of people do give a crap about artificial barriers to playing group content.

First of all, you do know WC2 won FAR more awards for GOTY right? Secondly, WC2 sold almost as many copies as WC3 and it did it in a time when not everyone had PC's so by FAR more people were playing WC2 in terms of "who has the pc?".

It also sold faster per PC ownership capita than WC3, so selling around 2 million copies in the 90's is much more impressive than 3 million copies in the 00's because the PC boom had happened and PC's were in every home during WC3's life. WC2 didn't have that luxury and still sold 2+ million copies.

Looks like there's more people who want the chaotic evil horde fantasy than you think.

[Noraver]

The thing I'll never understand is this..

Splitting your playerbase in half with factions restrictions does two things.
1. Literally divides them and makes them unable to play with their friends.
2. Requires more development time set to faction-specific things/questlines. Imagine what wondrous things could come if they devoted time to content without having to cut it in half because they "Need to work on the Alliance equivalent questline now!"
The obvious ones are fine, but there could be so much more world content if they just designed it with EVERYONE in mind.

Keep the factions, remove the PvE restrictions. That's all.
Instanced battlegrounds can stay faction-restricted (Or just use the Mercenary Mode tech for a friend to join your faction for it).

It's not that it's core to the gameplay. It's been proven you can retain the gameplay elements but allow people to play together.
It's that Blizzard is either lazy, incompetent, or stubborn.
My money is on all of them at once.

My biggest gripe with it is that they continue to show us that major lore characters (In cinematics that probably cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars to create) are putting it aside, but they have to force the brain-dead adventurers/"heroes" to continue fighting because reasons.
Anduin walks into Orgrimmar in a CGi cinematic, and then Baine hangs out in Stormwind Keep in-game with Anduin, and you won't let us do a dungeon with our friends on the opposite faction?!