Kael’thas and Thalassian Alliance?

[Terongor]

No, i don't see him worshipping the faction that almost destroyed his kingdom and showed no remorse for that. "Hey let's meet the WARchief in ORGRIMmar".
Sylvanas only became warchief much later and i doubt that he would be loyal to her after what she did. And again i don't care about that fic of the Nathanos self-insert, Kael was always in love with Jaina.
He also wasn't there when Illidan killed Maiev's wardens. There's no way he would support a genocidal maniac against people like Jaina or Tyrande.

Kael'thas is pragmatic politician so he would choose their survival and he knows yesterdays enemy can be tomorrows ally and horde wasn't even close as sunwell pretty easily stopped them and its different horde as the clans which made it up were totally different. Also worshipping no working with yeah as he had belfs would have no other choice and nelfs invaded belf landed at the start of tbc sent agents there and killed all who found out it was a quest in ghostlands.

Its not fic as it came from blizzard and as such is canon and placing kael on tbc lor'themar position alliance member sent military troops to you territory and sylvanas offers to help you reclaim you lands and kael as pragmatic politician would see that he needs allies to survive because of his numbers are pretty low and alliance have again proven hostile and sylvanas offers a way to the horde which shares the name of the former enemy but even he knew orcs were demon manipulated because of antodidases research on orchiss fel withdrawal. As such anything dark mirror states is 100% more canon than anything either of us would state.

Kael murdered most of the watchers pretty brutally to save illidan and Jaina had already proven his genocidel tendecies as purge of dalaran specifically towards elves and Tyrande would treat later on kael as she treats all elves who drained fel magic to survive in short pretty badly. As Tyrande would despise kael for what he did to draenai in outland and what he did to gain exodar.

So Tyrande sending troops in to ghostlands attacking elves, supporting faction which tried have him and his people killed and alliance haven't even tried to make reparation for it and for supporting a man like that it would extremely unlikely Tyrande and kaels relations were in that deep it was a mission in wc3 and the whole time she talked about Tyrande as priestess which is keeping distance emotionally more than calling anyone by their surname. Jaina is a different thing but Jaina chose a genocidal maniac still rather than him and later oon slaughtered sunreavers justified maybe in a way but still kael would see it genocidal and see it similiar to whar Garithos did.

Also when was Thralls horde genocidal? most likely it would have Garroshes horde which might have driven Kael out of horde and also it was horde heroes according to chronicles 3 which saved belfs from the threat of zul'jin and kael would be extremely thankful towards the horde.

- - - Updated - - -

I never said that Kael would want to join Alliance. Just saying that he would be disgusted with Horde as well. I wasn't aware that the Alliance knew about Garithos. It makes little sense to keep supporting some racist warlord who hates elves, especially when you are a Dwarf.
And yea, you probably right about Kael relation with Illidan. He was probably loyal to Illidan at some point. But again i don't see him genociding night elves "for the horde".

also this "In addition to the list of affiliations above, Kael'thas was also loosely (if not earnestly) allied with Thrall's Horde for a brief period, if only as Quel'Thalas's sovereign. Kael was kept up to date on the state of negotiations by Rommath, and it is strongly implied in Blood of the Highborne that Kael himself was the source of information mentioned in one of Lor'themar's letters that confirmed the presence of uncorrupted orcs still on Outland; Kael's regent used this as a bargaining chip with the Horde." as such Kael knew about blood elves joining the horde because of Rommath and we have no knowledge of him opposing it as Rommath was one of his closest advisors.

[eurojust]

Kael'thas is pragmatic politician so he would choose their survival and he knows yesterdays enemy can be tomorrows ally and horde wasn't even close as sunwell pretty easily stopped them and its different horde as the clans which made it up were totally different. Also worshipping no working with yeah as he had belfs would have no other choice and nelfs invaded belf landed at the start of tbc sent agents there and killed all who found out it was a quest in ghostlands.

.

He's not that pragmatic considering that he placed his faith into Illidan's hands without second thought. And there's nothing pragmatic into pledging allegiance to a group of genocidal beasts who only stand still because of the clemency of some human king. And waging a total war against the Alliance and genociding your own cousins who helped you because Arthas clone wants more puuuuwer is the most stupid thing to do.

[mickybrighteyes]

He's not that pragmatic considering that he placed his faith into Illidan's hands without second thinking.

Illidan offered some level of protection and safety... the other options were scourge and Garithos... both trying to wipe out Kael and his forced.

And there's nothing pragmatic into pledging allegiance to a group of genocidal beasts who only stand still because of the clemency of some human king. And waging a total war against the Alliance and genociding your own cousins who helped you because Arthas clone wants more puuuuwer is the most stupid thing to do.

But you're forgetting that the 'Alliance' was perfectly fine throwing him and his people away and executing him for somehow achieving the goals he was tasked with and surviving....

edit:

in this example you're talking about genociders Kael wouldn't know about vs ones he was nearly genocided by... Genociding isn't a very good immediate disqualifier cause both sides have it.

[eurojust]

Illidan offered some level of protection and safety... the other options were scourge and Garithos... both trying to wipe out Kael and his forced.



But you're forgetting that the 'Alliance' was perfectly fine throwing him and his people away and executing him for somehow achieving the goals he was tasked with and surviving....

edit:

in this example you're talking about genociders Kael wouldn't know about vs ones he was nearly genocided by... Genociding isn't a very good immediate disqualifier cause both sides have it.

Garithos was only about to kill his group. It's not a genocide. Warcrime yes. Kael knew about the Orcs however. Hence why he wanted to kill them all.

[AlmightyGerkin]

Kael'thas: I know what you're thinking, but Magisters Terrace was merely a set back. Did you honestly believe I would trust the future to some demon lord stuck in a well? Oh no, he was merely an instrument, a stepping stone to a much larger plan! It has all led to this... and this time you will not interfere!

[Terongor]

He's not that pragmatic considering that he placed his faith into Illidan's hands without second thought. And there's nothing pragmatic into pledging allegiance to a group of genocidal beasts who only stand still because of the clemency of some human king. And waging a total war against the Alliance and genociding your own cousins who helped you because Arthas clone wants more puuuuwer is the most stupid thing to do.

At that point it was as it was only choice for survival but overall that doesn't matter anymore as "In addition to the list of affiliations above, Kael'thas was also loosely (if not earnestly) allied with Thrall's Horde for a brief period, if only as Quel'Thalas's sovereign. Kael was kept up to date on the state of negotiations by Rommath, and it is strongly implied in Blood of the Highborne that Kael himself was the source of information mentioned in one of Lor'themar's letters that confirmed the presence of uncorrupted orcs still on Outland; Kael's regent used this as a bargaining chip with the Horde." If kael opposed siding with the horde he would have told rommath but he didn't and rommath would have forced kaels oppinion as at that point rommath was kael loyalist.

[mickybrighteyes]

Garithos was only about to kill his group.

oh that makes it SOOO much better... he was only trying to kill off the leadership of quel'thalas and his entourage and any followers he had... So not as bad..../sarcasm.

[eurojust]

At that point it was as it was only choice for survival but overall that doesn't matter anymore as "In addition to the list of affiliations above, Kael'thas was also loosely (if not earnestly) allied with Thrall's Horde for a brief period, if only as Quel'Thalas's sovereign. Kael was kept up to date on the state of negotiations by Rommath, and it is strongly implied in Blood of the Highborne that Kael himself was the source of information mentioned in one of Lor'themar's letters that confirmed the presence of uncorrupted orcs still on Outland; Kael's regent used this as a bargaining chip with the Horde." If kael opposed siding with the horde he would have told rommath but he didn't and rommath would have forced kaels oppinion as at that point rommath was kael loyalist.

Kael Thas never agreed about joining the Horde. You have no proof about that. I doubt he even had time to care about it considering he was failling to corruption.

oh that makes it SOOO much better... he was only trying to kill off the leadership of quel'thalas and his entourage and any followers he had... So not as bad..../sarcasm.

Never say that it made it better. Let's simply use the correct words. In one hand you have one genocidal group which still worship their genocidal leader. In another hand you have one racist warlord who only came to power because it was hell on earth and the alliance was destroyed and had barely nothing to do with the alliance of WoW. Does Stormwind have statues of Garithos?

[Terongor]

Kael Thas never agreed about joining the Horde. You have no proof about that. I doubt he even had time to care about it considering he was failling to corruption.



Never say that it made it better. Let's simply use the correct words. In one hand you have one genocidal group which still worship their genocidal leader. In another hand you have one racist warlord who only came to power because it was hell on earth and the alliance was destroyed and had barely nothing to do with the alliance of WoW. Does Stormwind have statues of Garithos?

chronicles 3 made that KJ contacted Kael and started corrupting him after he took over tempest keep and what event we have surrounding it like Rommath not being to tempest keep and kael sent him to azeroth and Rommath never seeing the Illidans main DH army but kael seeing them and other high advisors and timeline it indicates that negotiations to join the horde started before kael going into tempest keep and even then he personally prioritied what the blood elves so ofc he would voice his oppinion if he opposed it as he had long time for it.

So he stop ass pulling he was busy falling into corruption.

[eurojust]

chronicles 3 made that KJ contacted Kael and started corrupting him after he took over tempest keep and what event we have surrounding it like Rommath not being to tempest keep and kael sent him to azeroth and Rommath never seeing the Illidans main DH army but kael seeing them and other high advisors and timeline it indicates that negotiations to join the horde started before kael going into tempest keep and even then he personally prioritied what the blood elves so ofc he would voice his oppinion if he opposed it as he had long time for it.

So he stop ass pulling he was busy falling into corruption.

You still have 0 proof that he agreed into joining Horde. Again i don't see the guy going from "let's kill those genocidal beasts which almost ruined my Kingdom", to "FOR THE HORDE, we have so much to learn from these guys living in hutts who just destroyed their own planets and tried to destroyed ours as well, i want the warchief to guide me".

[Armakus]

The Alliance went to the pleasure palace to assassinate Gallywix. Not really sure what "killing people who bought the sales pitch that GPP is a cool vacation area while also slaughtering the underpaid waitstaff" had to do with the plot, they weren't exactly leaping to Gallywix's defense.

Umbric seemed really bitter about big houses and those who he considered "the elite," which is kind of silly considering elves are almost always about massive, decadent, overdecorated houses and elitism.

Agreed, but perhaps being kicked out of that society and being forced to live on a rock in space changed his perspective?

[Terongor]

You still have 0 proof that he agreed into joining Horde. Again i don't see the guy going from "let's kill those genocidal beasts which almost ruined my Kingdom", to "FOR THE HORDE, we have so much to learn from these guys living in hutts who just destroyed their own planets and tried to destroyed ours as well, i want the warchief to guide me".

In monarchies if person is appointed as regent the regent is supposed to do what his "monarch" is doing and regent actions are credited legally to monarch as such if kael didn't forbid it he then by not opposing what his regent did agreed to it. Its not about you seeing it.... its about how monarchies work and as kael was heavily invested in future of blood elves.

Also during short story blood of the highborne Rommath left for Outland, where he was to meet with Kael'thas and inform him of the state of negotiations with the Horde, and expected the task to be done by the time he returned..... So yeah....... which happened before TBC

[eurojust]

In monarchies if person is appointed as regent the regent is supposed to do what his "monarch" is doing and regent actions are credited legally to monarch as such if kael didn't forbid it he then by not opposing what his regent did agreed to it. Its not about you seeing it.... its about how monarchies work and as kael was heavily invested in future of blood elves.

Also during short story blood of the highborne Rommath left for Outland, where he was to meet with Kael'thas and inform him of the state of negotiations with the Horde, and expected the task to be done by the time he returned..... So yeah....... which happened before TBC

i know how monarchies work thanks. But you seem to not what a regent is : The point of a regent is to govern when the monarch is incapacitated. Here Kael was indeed incapacitated and couldn't govern the Blood Elves in Quel Thalas. You don't know what was said between the two guys. And seeing how quick Lorthemar ordered Kael killed, it seems that they didn't like each other very much.

[Terongor]

i know how monarchies work thanks. But you seem to not what a regent is : The point of a regent is to govern when the monarch is incapacitated. Here Kael was indeed incapacitated and couldn't govern the Blood Elves in Quel Thalas. You don't know what was said between the two guys. And seeing how quick Lorthemar ordered Kael killed, it seems that they didn't like each other very much.

Well that might be true don't really care to argue about that as its besides the point and they ordered his death after they found out he was serving the legion. also chronicles 3 descriped how lor'themar wanted kael to return from outland and rule the blood elves until he found out he was serving KJ.

my main point was the wording from the latter part as in short story it was used inform the state of the negotiations meaning he knew about and would imbly was kept in complete knowledge about as he was informed about the state of it and rommath expecting it to be finished when he returned and Rommath wouldn't let anything proceed without kael'thases permision as he Kael'thases companion for long time and a big loyalist.

As such all indications here is pointing towards kael'thas knowing about it and Rommath would have brought it up if kael opposed it and as we not even an implication Rommath disagreeing with it then. as such as all here indicites towards my side its your turn to prove kael said to Rommath something which indicated he didn't want to join the horde.

(Regent has being used for many purposes in human history I can atleast list 6 purposes which imperial china(chinese dynasties) has used it, 3 which Japanese have used it and many others.)

[Thage]

Any elf who backs Kael after Kael openly betrayed Silvermoon for the Legion needs his head examined for recent severe head trauma.

[Grazrug]

oh that makes it SOOO much better... he was only trying to kill off the leadership of quel'thalas and his entourage and any followers he had... So not as bad..../sarcasm.

Don't argue with high elf fans. Please. They are devoid of reason or logic. This guy won't let it go.

Infracted.

[Reinhart11]

Alleria has no claim to Quel'Thalas' throne in any way shape or form what so ever. To the contrary, she uses a dark power that threatens everyone and chose to betray her own people for the Alliance.

And Kael'thas?

He will probably tell us that everything he did was wrong and that we should go and get counsel from Anduin, because he knows best. Thats the kind of writing i expect here.

Of course the writers could also do something good and turn all these Blood Elf characters who love and pray to the Light and wanted to join the Alliance in the past back into proper High Elves, as they already are, just with the wrong colour scheme and in the wrong faction and give them to the Alliance as a race already, for crying out loud. While the other part of the population, all the fel magic users among them, who still cater to the older philosophies back in WC 3 TFT and BC turn to being proper TFT Blood Elves again. But something like this is simply extremely unlikely.

[Mehrunes]

Garithos was only about to kill his group. It's not a genocide. Warcrime yes. Kael knew about the Orcs however. Hence why he wanted to kill them all.

It was 15% of the survivors. And Kael'thas's force was what remained of their experienced military. The survival of the race depended on them. Which would put it in genocide category if he managed to kill them.

[Varodoc]

Alleria has no claim to Quel'Thalas' throne in any way shape or form what so ever. To the contrary, she uses a dark power that threatens everyone and chose to betray her own people for the Alliance.

And Kael'thas?

He will probably tell us that everything he did was wrong and that we should go and get counsel from Anduin, because he knows best. Thats the kind of writing i expect here.

Of course the writers could also do something good and turn all these Blood Elf characters who love and pray to the Light and wanted to join the Alliance in the past back into proper High Elves, as they already are, just with the wrong colour scheme and in the wrong faction and give them to the Alliance as a race already, for crying out loud. While the other part of the population, all the fel magic users among them, who still cater to the older philosophies back in WC 3 TFT and BC turn to being proper TFT Blood Elves again. But something like this is simply extremely unlikely.

Your post reeks of inconsistency. In the first paragraph you bash Alleria for using dangerous powers and yet at the end you want the blood elves to return to their sinister TBC incarnation. Furthermore, Alleria did not betray anyone as she never joined the "reformed" Kingdom of Quel'thalas. Finally, Alleria is technically the head of what was once one of the most influential families in old Quel'thalas (possibly the second most influential family after the royal one), and was hailed as a renowned war veteran and the finest of the Farstriders, so Kael'thas would probably be interested in hearing of her whereabouts regardless of her de-jure claim to Quel'thalas.

[Doffen]

I've heard that Garithos and Kael hangs out in the taverns of Rivendreath, playing games and drinking beer. BFFs in the afterlife.