What rewards does raiding need to make it more appealing?

[glowpipe]

Player housing with vaults to store spoils from raids. Trophy rooms to mount raid achievements. Kill a big ass demon, Mount his horn on the wall etc. Armories with manequins to mount raid gear. This is something i would release a load or two for.

[z01z]

cap war/titanforging so wq gear cant be the same level as mythic gear.
then give unique effects either visually or gameplay related that work not just in the raid but out in the world too.
and they dont have to be just dps/hps/tank related, but could be utility based.
like increased crafting materials drop rate, or more gold/ap per wq, etc.

but really, we need tier sets back. they tried their raid/armor type sets, and well, no one i know likes them over old tier sets. so go back to what worked for over a decade. and use some of that mtx money to hire a couple more artists so there's more than one armor class set per raid again.

[Squigglyo]

Fuck right off I’m not devoting THIRTY inventory slots to m+/pvp gear PER SPEC.

So the literal solution to that exact problem I put in there wasnt good enough?

[fatgunn]

Nicer mogs would be good. My guild fell apart in BoD, and I just can't be bothered to suffer through pugs to finish a heroic Azshara.

And please slightly deincentivise M+. M+ is part of the reason my guild died. We had people who had their own little group and ran M+, then inevitably got disappointed when nothing better dropped for them in raid, while at the same time being upset with those of us who didn't want to run M+ because we were below them in gear.

[Boricha]

Making the gear more relevant would be a good start. Most of people's best options come from m+ and benthic items. Then there's the issue of titanforging+split runs making many players outgear the raid before it releases. There's also the greater issue of gear acquisition being so rapid nowadays. There's very little reason to farm raids after the first full clear anymore.

[Soon-TM]

1) tier bonuses.

2) better drop rates. I got AOTC for Uldir and EP, but I am (was) barely wearing anything from there. All gear slots were occupied by M+ gear. And it's no surprise, since M+ is much easier to organise, doesn't take ~3 hours to complete and it doesn't have a lockout.

3) less obnoxious boss mechanics. Especially the last bosses, they have so many overlapping mechanics that they stop being fun and feel like a chore. I didn't have any wish to run H CoS after seeing normal Uu'nat, ZzzzZzzZz... Only went for H EP because guildies insisted - and I HATE H Aszhara. Worst boss in BfA so far, even more tedious than G'huun.

My $0.02

[Ragu4]

Mythic+ dungeons. I absolutely despise this content. I enjoy raiding in order to get the best gear and to do content and be done with the game for the week. I dont like this whole online all the time mentality WoW has gone to.

[ro9ue]

So with no class sets or tier bonuses coming in Shadowlands initially what rewards do you think blizzard should add to raiding to make it more appealing for both casual and hardcore players? Or do you think raiding rewards are fine as is?

This might be controversial... but IMO they need to collapse Dungeons and Raids into the same PVE content and just let it scale from 3-30 people.

OR just make Dungeons the challenging small group content and make raids like big zerg fest fun stuff like Onyxia. It's just way too intensive for a normal person.

[Destinas]

So here's the thing.
-They've tried pets, even Mythic-only ones.
-There have always been titles.
-They've tried cosmetic transmog sets.
-Mounts have been in raids since God was a boy - even limited ones.
-They have made Mythic sets more fancy since WoD, with LFR sets usually the more subdued colors (and sometimes downright ugly).
-There have been special achievements, including meta achievements with mounts, pets, titles, and other rewards.

None of it really sticks. People are gonna do what they want to do. In most cases, people will not rise to the occasion if they don't want to - they'll just wait until it's easier to obtain those rewards, or pay for a run through the raid. At this point, it's been fairly proven that rewards don't really make people want to raid more than they already do.

[Onikaroshi]

Why rewards? Are you not doing it for the challenge and not shinier purps?

Very few people would raid at all if there was no reward, face it, people love gear. Hell, it's the entire reason I play the game, to obtain gear and get stronger

- - - Updated - - -

So here's the thing.
-They've tried pets, even Mythic-only ones.
-There have always been titles.
-They've tried cosmetic transmog sets.
-Mounts have been in raids since God was a boy - even limited ones.
-They have made Mythic sets more fancy since WoD, with LFR sets usually the more subdued colors (and sometimes downright ugly).
-There have been special achievements, including meta achievements with mounts, pets, titles, and other rewards.

None of it really sticks. People are gonna do what they want to do. In most cases, people will not rise to the occasion if they don't want to - they'll just wait until it's easier to obtain those rewards, or pay for a run through the raid. At this point, it's been fairly proven that rewards don't really make people want to raid more than they already do.

No, but providing an easier option. (m+) while also removing something that made raids stand out (tier) sure made people want to raid LESS than before

[Destinas]

No, but providing an easier option. (m+) while also removing something that made raids stand out (tier) sure made people want to raid LESS than before

That's true as well, but there are also generally less additional rewards for Mythic+ than raids as well, like the things I listed in my previous post. There certainly have been things like ensembles, mounts, pets, titles, and toys in dungeons, but those are usually more appealing in raids for some reason. People are usually more attracted to Mythic+ for gear upgrades, whereas raids can have an impact on other communities, even those that like lore.

For tier, I agree completely. When they stopped having tier looks in BfA, at first I was all for it, because they stated several times that they would have more gear in BfA even without tier sets. Not only did they deliver less gear, set bonuses are kind of a thing of the past, and the gear they did add looks boring. Nazjatar's sets weren't pulling in any transmog people, for instance.

[Onikaroshi]

That's true as well, but there are also generally less additional rewards for Mythic+ than raids as well, like the things I listed in my previous post. There certainly have been things like ensembles, mounts, pets, titles, and toys in dungeons, but those are usually more appealing in raids for some reason. People are usually more attracted to Mythic+ for gear upgrades, whereas raids can have an impact on other communities, even those that like lore.

For tier, I agree completely. When they stopped having tier looks in BfA, at first I was all for it, because they stated several times that they would have more gear in BfA even without tier sets. Not only did they deliver less gear, set bonuses are kind of a thing of the past, and the gear they did add looks boring. Nazjatar's sets weren't pulling in any transmog people, for instance.

A lot of us don't play for cosmetics though :S, there's collectors out there sure, but most people aren't going to raid just because it has a mount.

[Good ol Stroggylos]

Restrictions/gating of m+ acquired gear. For the time being this only happens in mythic raiding.

Tokens for tmog + mount from mythic raiding as well please.

[jzhbee]

Make mythic gear 20% better than the best possible gear from lower difficulties, including forging.

You want the power spike per expansion to be even more insane?

[Cierah]

Tier sets and almost always the best in-game trinkets coming exclusively from raiding is what has kept my interest beyond the challenge of the kill. Even chasing the challenge gets a little lackluster after raiding since BC.
As others have noted and I agree, constantly having to grind M+ to build viable sets is unappealing. I'd rather not have to live online to maximize potential.

So to the original question - I'd say add in some augment that drops only in raids that can augment any item in your inventory. Ensure these items are also BOP so they can't be purchased on the AH. Have them have a vendor value of like 1000G or something to make them lucrative if you don't need any more. Maybe have scaled versions where LFR gives 75% of the stat line, normal 100%, heroic 125%, and mythic 150%. That would preserve relative difficulty-based rewards and incentivise higher difficulty clears. Sure it isn't as sexy as set bonuses but it is at least something. Also so as to not force you to have to grind them ad nauseum, give them a limited swap capability so you can change out items three times before exhausting the "swap charges". Then you need a new one. That would work and provide that driver to raid as opposed to today where all you need to do is grind endless M+ to have the best gear.

[Irefusetodie]

Hardcore audience doesn't need anything for raiding to be appealing. What the hardcore audience needs is the rest of the game to be appealing. No more grinding even after the raid has been cleared. No more new systems on top of new systems to continually grind. Better class design. Etc.

The casual audience? I don't think there's any way to make it appealing to them. Pug runs are typically awful. Guild groups typically require a set schedule and casuals tend to play when they can. LFR isn't engaging for most people. The difficulty jump from Heroic to Mythic is severe. I think the main thing hurting casuals is all of the cross realm stuff. If Blizzard has chosen to consolidate servers and manage horde/alliance player ratios per server, I think we'd be seeing a healthier community. Right now you join a group, mostly talk to no one or just make small talk, leave, and typically never see/talk to those people again. Back before LFD/LFR, you learned people's names and you learned who were the good players, the bad players, the assholes, the nice guys, etc. You did this because your identity on a server mattered. There was a finite number of players and, not only would you likely have multiple interactions with them, your interactions actually mattered. I remember adding people to my friends list who were good/fun and whispering them to see if they wanted to do runs when I need to fill a group. Now, you just hop into group finder and semi-afk until you find a group or your group fills. I think Blizzard moving away from dedicated servers for crossrealm grouping severely hurt the game moreso than any other changes they've made.

[Destinas]

A lot of us don't play for cosmetics though :S, there's collectors out there sure, but most people aren't going to raid just because it has a mount.

Sure, but look at the title of this thread. The subject at hand is about rewards to make raiding more appealing. Raids and M+ have always had gear to make people stronger, that's not an issue at all, so presumably the OP meant other rewards than the standard fare. That's the point here.

[Marxman]

Raiding isn't dying because it isn't rewarding enough.

Raiding is dying for 2 reasons.
A) Hardcore players are unsubbing in droves because the core gameplay loop of Legion/BfA is downright awful (RNG, infinite forced grinds, forced personal loot).
B) Mythic+ is more rewarding, has a lower barrier to entry, is less time consuming, and requires fewer people.

If you get hardcore players to return to the game, and you remove Titanforging to make M+ less rewarding, and you bring back tier sets, raiding will be doing just fine.

[Powerogue]

Another Mage Tower style super challenging solo event that rewards you permanent bragging rights that helps to justify the upper tiers of gearing.

Torghast and those n'zoth invasion things look like fun but it doesn't look like the mage tower because I don't see the point where they end. Where you can say you've "won."

[Kralljin]

I think instead they should stop making spamming M+ so fucking rewarding.

They're not going to do that.

People laughed about World of Diablocraft when Legion was announced, yet partially due to M+, i think that has come to full fruition.
M+ is a system that's fundamentally built upon repetition, that's why there's no ID lockout or anything.

If you nuke the drop chance of items in M+ into oblivion, no one going to engage in it because they don't feel like a single M+ is rewarding enough.
A system without Lockout cannot coexist next to a system that has one, especially if the one without lockout has less organization requirements and is overall more flexible.

As said earlier, Blizzard repeats History here.
You could also change the thread title to "what rewards does 25man raiding need to make it more appealing?" and boom, you'd have a thread straight out of 2012.