Class feel is also about combat difficulty in solo content

[Soon-TM]

There is no way to make leveling teach you a rotation that is optimal for a class because to actually execute a rotation, mobs would need to stay alive significantly longer which is antithetical to what Blizz is trying to do by reducing the barrier of entry to the game. I shouldn't need to run my full rotation 3x on a mob before it dies. That is what end-game content is for.

Well, if you have to kill 3 or 4 mobs for a quest instead of the customary 15 or 20, I think we could have a deal.

[Gaidax]

And you speak for the overwhelming majority? I don't think so. Get through your skull - you are not the only person playing this game, sun and stars don't revolve around you.

Of course I don't, I simply use brain and common sense. After all I am teh "elitist Mittik playa", per you guys, I'm the one who is supposed to push for "teh uber skillz" everywhere.

No, people don't need that crap in story mode content and leveling is exactly that.

See, the thing is, leveling is mandatory, there is no opt out like Mythic Raids. So stop making life hard for people for your little willies sake. If you are so skilled - you can always gun for Cutting Edge every patch and leave people who want none of that crap alone.

[Polybius]

Right now the classes feel dull and braindead. Legion was still superior thanks to Artifact abilities outside the Talent system, and no GCDs locking your pace to lazy levels. Leveling and solo content is even slower with scaling; mob health just extends the time you take to kill, no real difficulty.

[Dalheim]

Why do you want questing to be done as quck as possible? Is it perhaps because it's not fun? Why is it not fun? Maybe because it's a cakewalk and "the real game" is waiting at max level? Don't you think that in itself is a problem?

Because I've quested through every single zones more than 50+ times during my time of playing WoW, and it's boring.

[Dreadgear]

The reason why people don't care about leveling, is because we've been through Cataclysm zones, we've been through TBC an WotlK this is not new stories or new mobs or new paths to take. We want to level to get to the new expansion's questing and features and stories. You can't glorify Old leveling because it's a byproduct of the game's age that constantly adds new zones.

[SoulSoBreezy]

However, it worries me that they have not once talked about the general difficulty of regular solo content.

Torghast is allegedly endgame solo content if you want it to be, so you should focus on that.

[deviantcultist]

Holinka presented the final nail to the Shadowpriest coffin by talking about returning Holy spells to Shadow. What...the..hell...happened to the Legion quote mentioning that Shadow is about turning your back to the Light and going full Shadow?

Not only have they not added a proper new Shadow class, but they also want to return Priest to the Classic state of being a support fairy over being specialized in Shadow if you so wish?

What's next? Return of Devouring Plague and removal of Void aspects?

Can this garbage expansion get any worse?

[Shinrael]

It's not fun because a good portion of the players who are doing it prefer the endgame and leveling is in the way of that. It's only a problem if you really like leveling and think more of the game should be focused on it. That's legitimate but likely in the minority (Blizzard would know for sure by looking at how many people would rather level an alt than do endgame play).

The Level Boost is there for you. You can buy it with gold now so you have no excuse.

OR

Maybe because as usual the real deal starts in the endgame with raids, challenge mode dungeons and whatever other stuff expansion gives you.

People want to get there, it's not unusual. Or what, you think eating/drinking after every 3 mobs is "engaging and fun" gameplay?

Why do you limit your imagination's capabilities to "eating/drinking after every 3 mobs"? You can come up with so much better and more engaging ideas than that. Try!

Because during questing the fun is the story not the actual farming of the mobs.

Why would you delibaretely limit your source of fun to just the story? When both the story and the gameplay can be fun. Let me give you an example: Suramar - story, gameplay and difficulty were all at their peak in that one zone. And it was tons of fun. Of course, some people disliked Suramar but the majority of the complaints were due to its timegating. Many people still remember it as one of the best questing and also one of the best max-level zones. So why not make all leveling zones like that?

"Needs to be made"? Says who?

Seems like people above you disagree with that. Get through your skull - you are not the only person playing this game, sun and stars don't revolve around you. Overwhelming majority of people who play this game are casuals and if you think they want annoyances when leveling, then you are mistaken.

I am a casual and I want annoyances in my leveling. Well, I guess that invalidates your point. Next!

No it's because I've done it 500 times and don't give a shit anymore. I know the stories, I know how they end. Let me get my fucking alts to max level already.

If you've done it 500 times then that means you have 10 times the maximum number of characters you can have per account so I'm pretty sure you don't need to EVER level another character again. You can rest now, mate. Take your time and enjoy the endgame on your 500 characters. Let the people like me, who love the aspect of leveliing and questing and want more of it and better of it, have our fun

Well then your opinion is full of shit. No, we don't need grind when leveling and we don't need leveling to be a survival game. And I tell you that as said Mythic Raider. All content needs to have appropriate difficulty and for leveling that appropriate difficulty is literally Story Mode.

You want challenge? You have plenty ingame, just no need to force it on everyone.

Why does a Mythic Raider interfere in the Casual's fun? You can tell Blizzard what improvements you want in your Mythic game. We, the Casuals, will decide whether we want Story Mode or something else. There is the leveling boost available for gold so you can just skip the Leveling process if it is too hard for you, Mr. Mythic Raider ^_^

Because I've quested through every single zones more than 50+ times during my time of playing WoW, and it's boring.

Then what's your problem? You can just take your time and enjoy the endgame on your 50+ characters now. You don't need to level new characters again, especially if you find it boring and if you've been there and done it already. And if you ever decide you need a 51th character the leveling boost is there for you.

The reason why people don't care about leveling, is because we've been through Cataclysm zones, we've been through TBC an WotlK this is not new stories or new mobs or new paths to take. We want to level to get to the new expansion's questing and features and stories. You can't glorify Old leveling because it's a byproduct of the game's age that constantly adds new zones.

We are talking about gameplay here. If the gameplay sequence is good, it will make the content replayable. As simple as that. If all you do is chain destroy mobs dozens per second, then yes, it will be boring and repetitive. If you have to defend yourself or dodge mechanics or run away or hide every now and then (not all the time, just sometimes), it would make for a much more enjoyable experience. Just like Suramar.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Can’t say I see any benefit in pulling 4 mobs on classic then stopping to drink instead of pulling 4 mobs on live and not stopping to drink. The 30 sec of down time adds nothing to the game play.

[Gaidax]

I am a casual and I want annoyances in my leveling. Well, I guess that invalidates your point. Next!

I won't waste too much of my time with you, but I just want to point out that in order to invalidate my opinion you need to prove that all or at least majority of the casual players want annoyances during leveling.

Guess this is what happens when education system is in shambles as it is, even basic logic is a challenge.

[Shinrael]

Torghast is allegedly endgame solo content if you want it to be, so you should focus on that.

Also they made a comparison between The Maw and Suramar, which gives me lots of hope for that place! Especially without an innkeeper and a sanctuary area. It sounds like the closest WoW could get to a horror game.

- - - Updated - - -

I won't waste too much of my time with you, but I just want to point out that in order to invalidate my opinion you need to prove that all or at least majority of the casual players want annoyances during leveling.

Guess this is what happens when education system is in shambles as it is, even basic logic is a challenge.

And when did you, Mr. Mythic Raider, prove that you represent all of the Mythic Raiders AND all of the Casuals? Since when do you speak for everyone?

And I don't know what country you are from, Sir, but while your education system might indeed be in shambles and your attitude shows for it, the one I came from was just fine. They thought me manners at the very least.

[Gaidax]

And when did you, Mr. Mythic Raider, prove that you represent all of the Mythic Raiders AND all of the Casuals? Since when do you speak for everyone?

I didn't.

Gosh you are so easy, like taking a candy from a baby...

[Nephys]

This is the big issue. Levelling needs to be made at least mildly challenging (albeit not necessarily longer) so that players can appreciate whatever utility their class offers, as well as the "new", or rather unpruned spells that will be returning in SL.

- - - Updated - - -



Levelling must teach players how to play their class, unless Blizz is ok with having almost no new players. Which means that if you don't use your class toolkit to its full potential, you should be biting the dust from time to time.

Leveling doesn't teach you to play your class at max level, maybe you should try some high m+ or mythic raiding so that you can understand this yourself. Even if you try to make it so, each max level content requires different gameplay, so what kind of gameplay should leveling prepare you for? M+? Raid? Pvp? See the problem with your argument?

[Shakana]

Can’t say I see any benefit in pulling 4 mobs on classic then stopping to drink instead of pulling 4 mobs on live and not stopping to drink. The 30 sec of down time adds nothing to the game play.

Meh. It's just time consuming honestly. Feels it takes longer. But it's not a fun gameplay indeed. That's one of the reasons why i'm not playing classic anymore. I don't have the same consuming time as when i was a kid.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Meh. It's just time consuming honestly. Feels it takes longer. But it's not a fun gameplay indeed. That's one of the reasons why i'm not playing classic anymore. I don't have the same consuming time as when i was a kid.

Ya I’ve put classic on the shelf my self as the game play just isn’t gripping alone and it’s not like there’s any meaningful story. I’ll probably go back when my friends want to do dungeons and stuff but they haven’t been playing either for the last few weeks so who knows might just be done with it altogether if they are.

[Gaidax]

Meh. It's just time consuming honestly. Feels it takes longer. But it's not a fun gameplay indeed. That's one of the reasons why i'm not playing classic anymore. I don't have the same consuming time as when i was a kid.

Back in the day it was a short easymode compared to other games really, I came to Vanilla from Lineage 2 and a bunch of other Korean MMOs of a time where it was literally leveling the game. I was sure glad that in WoW you could actually reach a cap and have something there instead of that cancerous prestige system many K-MMOs had.

Over the years I realized that all this leveling was nothing more than preparing to have fun, instead of actually having fun. Advent of modern games like LoL, various shooters and what not made me realize that this whole leveling crap is simply unnecessary waste of time, that's why I am glad it's not made into being a thing, because all in all WoW is best at its great endgame, such as raids.

[Beingbob]

Completely agree with OP's premise. It's one of the big things that has been missing since around WotLK; when everything in the open world is trivial and quick it just becomes a chore rather than an engaging activity. A degree of risk through danger and a degree of complexity through making fights longer (necessitating the use of more abilities) can increase that engagement.

[wholol]

@MiiiMiii

Not sure what kind of argument I just walked into but what if they added difficulty tiers to the open world while leveling similar to how diablo does it?

You'd have to be in a major city to activate it, the same way world pvp is enabled . You'd click on the open world difficulty scaling button and choose the tier of difficulty you want, overall I'd say something like normal , hard and extreme ( or whatever you wanna call it), where enabling open world difficulty scaling allows you to choose between the 3.

Obviously mobs would get a % increase depending on the difficulty , in damage and hp/mitigation while giving you an increase in loot drop rate /gold /whatever currencies/resources the expansion has to offer, the reason I didn't add exp boost in there is to avoid having it feel mandatory to increase difficulty in order to level faster.

Those who would choose a difficulty increase would not level faster but would gain some achievement / maybe a cosmetic upgrade or some form of buff or loot chest ( whatever ) which would help catch up to the people who chose to level quickly in normal mode and start doing dungeons/raids etc.

[Shakana]

Back in the day it was a short easymode compared to other games really, I came to Vanilla from Lineage 2 and a bunch of other Korean MMOs of a time where it was literally leveling the game. I was sure glad that in WoW you could actually reach a cap and have something there instead of that cancerous prestige system many K-MMOs had.

Over the years I realized that all this leveling was nothing more than preparing to have fun, instead of actually having fun. Advent of modern games like LoL, various shooters and what not made me realize that this whole leveling crap is simply unnecessary waste of time, that's why I am glad it's not made into being a thing, because all in all WoW is best at its great endgame, such as raids.

I feel the same honestly, i like the feeling when i'm leveling of doing stories and all, but to be honest, just feels it's numbers on my screen going higher, because at least, even in BfA i just felt i was going backwards, if anything, instead of having fun, i felt i was going to die almost leveling sad that i was losing every minute less power and my gear stopped working at some level, how is that damn fun godsakes!! That was the most horrible thing for me. I even said, i don't want to level anymore if the price is this, we known inevitably we will lose our gear, for better gear sooner or later, but losing it while leveling in that way was horrible. Losing gear, losing flying, losing time, starting raids that i hated, i hated uldir, everything about bfa to me was just zero fun.
Leveling can be a nice experience but make it faster as possible so i can focus in other concerns.

You know what i think even to this day? We love to go do solo content now for mounts (and even goes with friends sometimes, "hey wanna come with me do Hellfire citadel?" "Sure man") because of how easy it is, and to collect stuff at same time. When it's for hard stuff i see a lot of people say like "nobody has time for that". So ye i think no matter how hard blizz can try to add the MMO element, everyone likes to solo content and get over the leveling and the gearing up part, and make more stuff that makes them feel powerful. We are looking for something to get entertained, to have some challenges, but we are not looking for something that is harder than our current job irl and that consumes more time than that. Otherwise will feel like you're never satisfied. I mean, that's how it works for me.

I like challenges a lot, i just don't like to feel forced to do them in a way i hate to do it. And on classic, every corner is a challenge, even to go to the other zone, and end up being a zone 10 levels higher than you, and you die, and you get your gear broken cause you aggro the whole zone trying to go back, and if it's a murloc, you're so fked!!!

Ugh, anyway sorry if i typed too much, i just feel i had to take this out of my chest.

[derpkitteh]

fuck off with this, go play classic.

combat is boring if it takes forever. i have the most fun when i steamroll through everything and feel like a god.