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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Darklurker View Post
    "Just cosmetics" doesn't fly with me. Many of us work as hard or harder on cool cosmetics than on character progression. It's content, just like anything else. Content that could enrich the gameplay loop but is instead carved out.
    Yes, it's very early, but also disheartening to have microtransactions associated to the game.
    Well said, the look of your character in a game (that has armor and weapons that can drop or be made in the game) tells a story about what you have been doing in the game and when "cosmetics" are bought outside of the game then that character looks like just another bought and paid for, meaningless immersion breaking character.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    How did you figure out I am not liking the game.
    My answer was common, not just to you. If you don`t like something or don`t want something you don`t buy it. If you don`t like the game features and are not happy with it, no one obligates you to buy that game, right ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by khazmodan View Post
    Well said, the look of your character in a game (that has armor and weapons that can drop or be made in the game) tells a story about what you have been doing in the game and when "cosmetics" are bought outside of the game then that character looks like just another bought and paid for, meaningless immersion breaking character.
    If you don`t like the feature don`t use it. If you don`t like the game, don`t buy it. If you not like how your character looks its your problem, this is not a P2W component and actually have nothing to do with the game itself.

    What some of you want is like this: Just because i don`t to give money for something this feature should not exist at all. It`s like complaining that we both buy the same model car, but i paid more for highest tech, different kit and so on, and you complain for that. You understand how ridiculous its sound?

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    well D3 really f8cked my love for diablo in general, d4 seemed a move to right direction but my tinfoil hat theory says that they only gave a f8ck about d4 to make immortals more shiny for ppl to buy
    i wonder when they will just take money and give nothing
    This is the long term goal of many of the finance minded people running these gaming companies that want to eliminate any pesky costs like software engineers by just taking out and putting back in features to create the illusion of interesting gameplay.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by lordlosh View Post
    My answer was common, not just to you. If you don`t like something or don`t want something you don`t buy it. If you don`t like the game features and are not happy with it, no one obligates you to buy that game, right ?
    You made a post that implied that people should be grateful that Blizzard allows them to access their servers for free, but maybe people dont want those servers?

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    Because they ARE NOT. The only improvement will come in the form of an expansion. Why not let people acquire the cosmetics by playing the fucking game.
    So, you know in advance that they will earn money on MTX and NOT update the game in between expansions? How do you know that? Sounds very unfair, and to be honest not very typical Blizzard if you ask me. Overwatch has the same business model, and they have been updating it even though it’s a one time cost game with optional cosmetic items.

    And you are also expecting that the cosmetics are NOT available by just playing the game. Well, look again at Overwatch. Both buyable, and can be earned without paying.

    Seems like you know a lot in advance about how this game will be in the areas where we actually don’t know, and even some where we DO know but you don’t want to accept it. Please try to be a little more open-minded

  6. #426
    If it's just cosmetic stuff I don't really care.

    Microtransactions like that are what allow the game to be continuously updated with new content. A good portion of that new content comes in the form of free patch updates as well.

    More money means more developers. More developers means expansions and other content will be completed more quickly.

    Paying more money for bonus cosmetic things is not even specific to gaming. Let's say two people buy the same car at the same base price. One guy wants to upgrade to the alloy rims, so he pays more. The other guy is not entitled to the alloy rims because he paid the base cost of the car.

    The cosmetic items are bonus content, not part of the base game. I have no problem paying more for bonus cosmetic content.

    Now, if they gated the last act of the game behind a microtransaction then obviously that would be a huge problem. That's not what is happening here though.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by lordlosh View Post
    My answer was common, not just to you. If you don`t like something or don`t want something you don`t buy it. If you don`t like the game features and are not happy with it, no one obligates you to buy that game, right ?

    - - - Updated - - -



    If you don`t like the feature don`t use it. If you don`t like the game, don`t buy it. If you not like how your character looks its your problem, this is not a P2W component and actually have nothing to do with the game itself.

    What some of you want is like this: Just because i don`t to give money for something this feature should not exist at all. It`s like complaining that we both buy the same model car, but i paid more for highest tech, different kit and so on, and you complain for that. You understand how ridiculous its sound?
    The problem with this argument is that this is not a car, this is an rpg, which requires a certain quantity of respect of immersion for many players to enjoy the game at a higher level. Since immersion is a non tangible aspect many people poo poo it, but we have seen the effect on WoW when we compare the diminishing player base of retail and the explosion of players back to Classic that is far superior in immersion and role playing aspects.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by MoltenIceCream View Post
    D3 is one of top selling games ever.They made tons of money and provided crap support for it.Also scrapping expansion...PoE is free and some people buy cosmetics.I wouldn't imagine thats a high % of people who buy them.But they still keep making new content and updating it.So you are telling me company like blizz after selling full priced game and expansions still need money??Like really?
    You not only gain money from the game, you have to invest, and you also have to paid salary to your employees, you get that?
    You paid for a game and you get the game, no one promise you to support the game, and no one will waste money, on already released game, unless its going to EARN MONEY for the support they will give you.
    Thats why every MMORPG out there its either with monthly fee, or regular DLC/expansion you need to pay if you want to play, like in ESO, or its free with restriction and you have to paid to remove this restriction and/or MTX.

    As far as POE goes, we already discuss that its far from free to play. Its probably even more costly than a base game, just by buying the require stash things.
    They are given regularly updates simply because they use monetization model - MTX.
    And they do sell plenty of stashes and plenty of support packs.
    I heard some numbers like 20 or 30 million income for a year.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    While I understand PoE is FREE, the question is... do you want regular content for D4, or are you happy with very little? As far as I'm concerned if we get more content and the cost is optional cosmetics, who the fuck cares? Hopefully they have a good amount of cool looking sets, though, and we don't all look like total garbage as a way to entice people to buy them.
    These are (Probably) the same guys who whined about having to pay for the Necromancer Class, and that there are no huge Content Updates for a game they bought 7 years ago.

    Somehow people feel entitled for free stuff because they at some point paid some amount of Money.

    Face it People, if you want a Company to ship Free content updates regulary, you gotta pay them to do it. Be happy if cosmetic MicroTransactions are enough to pay for regular, extended Support.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MoltenIceCream View Post
    D3 is one of top selling games ever.They made tons of money and provided crap support for it.Also scrapping expansion...PoE is free and some people buy cosmetics.I wouldn't imagine thats a high % of people who buy them.But they still keep making new content and updating it.So you are telling me company like blizz after selling full priced game and expansions still need money??Like really?
    This is Exactly what I mean.

    Would you be Okey with it, if I pay you today like 80$, and then Expect you to work for me for 7 Years without any Additional payment?

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by khazmodan View Post
    The problem with this argument is that this is not a car, this is an rpg, which requires a certain quantity of respect of immersion for many players to enjoy the game at a higher level. Since immersion is a non tangible aspect many people poo poo it, but we have seen the effect on WoW when we compare the diminishing player base of retail and the explosion of players back to Classic that is far superior in immersion and role playing aspects.
    And almost every ARPG out there use some monetization model.
    Last Epoch(unknown company and a game with way worst graphic, gameplay and etc than Diablo) use MTX.
    As far as i know Lost Ark use monetization model, tho the players even want to pay monthly fee, that`s how much they like the game and this is the best way to get constant support of the game.
    Warhammer ChaosBane - the game cost a lot and in the future you have to paid for some future end game content. There is probably MTX in there as well.
    Wolcen - the game is not out yet and they also use MTX model.

    Every big ARPG there need a solid business model to continue support the game, outside of the base game, whether you paid for the base game or not.

    Otherwise you will get a one big mess like a Diablo 3.

    Again you like it or not, if you want something you have to paid for it, and i`m pretty much perfect for it and i prefer it. I don`t want to waste money, just like you, but i know that if they don`t get money monthly we won`t get a good support of the game and regularly content.

    I hope you get it now.
    MTX doesn`t mess with your gameplay even a bit. If you want to support the game go for it, if you don`t like, don`t waste money on MTX.
    Then if you don`t like the Base sets, the problem is all yours.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by MoltenIceCream View Post
    D3 is one of top selling games ever.They made tons of money and provided crap support for it.Also scrapping expansion...PoE is free and some people buy cosmetics.I wouldn't imagine thats a high % of people who buy them.But they still keep making new content and updating it.So you are telling me company like blizz after selling full priced game and expansions still need money??Like really?
    They were busy making large expansions not relatively small changes ala seasons/leagues while they had what they considered working capital for the game, as they drew closer to RoS, they realized the RMAH cuts were drying up in addition to it being a major controversy they cut it and lost all monetization for the 2nd and possibly 3rd expansion. That is when it went into maintenance mode and D4 began.

    It matters not what you think of how much money a company has or has made from a product. What matters is if they are hitting budgeted projections. That is the business end of things. They could sell $3B worth of D4 boxes and if no one buys any MTXs then we may only see one expansion. It's the unfortunate nature of the business these days. Will I buy any and support it. No, maybe if they do a charity thing, but I don't do MTX or most DLC. I have nothing against them, I just don't care for most of it.

  12. #432
    Herald of the Titans Rendark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordlosh View Post
    MTX doesn`t mess with your gameplay even a bit.
    Yes it does.

  13. #433
    Immortal Stormspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Sounds like you're the one being greedy. Why would you expect extra work to be free? It's not mandatory and it actually provides benifits.
    *cough cough* Bullshit



  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    Yes it does.
    How does somebody spending real money for a cosmetic item, affect your gameplay?

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by MoltenIceCream View Post
    D3 is one of top selling games ever.They made tons of money and provided crap support for it.Also scrapping expansion...PoE is free and some people buy cosmetics.I wouldn't imagine thats a high % of people who buy them.But they still keep making new content and updating it.So you are telling me company like blizz after selling full priced game and expansions still need money??Like really?
    One of the main reasons the second expansion for Diablo 3 got scrapped was because there was no plan for ongoing monetization. The real money auction house was the original plan for that (Blizzard got a cut of each transaction), but that obviously didn't work out.

    Another thing worth noting, Grinding Gear Games (POE) has 120 employees. Their system works for them because they have very low overhead compared to Blizzard. We don't know how many people are on the D4 team, but overall Blizzard has at least 5000 employees.

  16. #436
    Pandaren Monk Tabrotar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    As I've said at least twice, if you want to talk about throwing off capitalist economics in favor of a socialist system, we can have that discussion, but it's not really on-topic for this thread.

    Until that's the point we're at, we've got to deal with the normal function of capitalist economics, which involves maximizing profits.

    It's also really not fair to compare this to medical expenses, since when you need an epipen, you need it, or you'll likely die. Nobody needs Diablo 4. You'll be fine without it.

    If we weren't talking about pure entertainment luxuries, then I might be a little more critical. If we want to talk about the potential gains for society with a socialist model, I'm game for that chat, but it's not for this thread.



    The idea that this is a "full price" is basically the problem.

    It ain't.

    It's a base price, for the basic model without any bells and whistles, all of which cost extra.
    Sorry but there´s a thing called decency aka not being is tupid cunt aka ceo/sharholder/whatever and makes games that are good without being said stupid cunt.

    And going to piss on your poor analogy with economy, we have a owner of a company a and a owner b, owner a knows what is good for the economy and pays his employees a good wage so that they can buy stuff and with that his company to will prosper while owner b is a cunt and only pay them the minimum he have to and with that harm their ability to buy stuff which means harm the economy.

    Older owners still had enough brain to comprehend this but with the upcomming of newer CEOs and the fucking stock-market we´re now where we´re.

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Swisted View Post
    How does somebody spending real money for a cosmetic item, affect your gameplay?
    See this is where you pretend like cosmetics mean nothing in RPGs like diablo.

    Forget unlocking that cool angel wing set in game by doing challenges. That comes with the deluxe pre order.

    They take content and lock it behind a credit card. Who cares its only cosmetic! Character growth represented by armor means nothing! Right?

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    Yes it does.
    How exactly? Its make the game harder for you ?

    You firstly don`t know what items the game will offer and how they will look on your character, but you pretend to know and say the items will be ugly as *****, and the only good looking items will be on MTX, which is ridiculous statement, but then if we remove the MTX thing, the base items will still be ugly right ? Then just don`t buy the base game, and let me and the other people that like MTX to play the game and paid extra to get this "cool looking" MTX items.

    So how they exactly mess in your gameplay? But not having an option an MTX is cutting people options. I want to have it and i want the game to have future support.
    Plenty of people above me explain it more than perfect.

    I will said it for last time:

    Most games comes in 60$. Most games are single played, you have a campaign and that all comes to end and you move on.
    Base Diablo cost the same offers you multiplayer, offers you server for free, offers you plenty of big world, big campaign, a lot of end game contents and even PVP.
    And also offer you a future game of the franchise.
    If we stop right there its already offer you more than 80% of the games that are on the market.

    The Devs job is done. If you want continually support, more content, balancing stuff, new items and so on you have to paid for them in some way.
    Expansion is a complete other thing.

    I hope people get it now.
    For a game i will probably play for years to come and that will give me plenty of joy and interesting stuff i have no problem paying even monthly fee in the region of 10$.
    And i`m not some rich guy, but 10$ monthly is nothing for a game that gives you plenty of excitement.
    So let us people who like to support the game have that option and regularly support the game and people like you, who don`t want to spend even 1$ more, will benefits from that, simply because will get for free regularly updates.
    I hope you get it now.
    Last edited by lordlosh; 2019-11-10 at 10:36 PM.

  19. #439
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    Sorry but there´s a thing called decency aka not being is tupid cunt aka ceo/sharholder/whatever and makes games that are good without being said stupid cunt.

    And going to piss on your poor analogy with economy, we have a owner of a company a and a owner b, owner a knows what is good for the economy and pays his employees a good wage so that they can buy stuff and with that his company to will prosper while owner b is a cunt and only pay them the minimum he have to and with that harm their ability to buy stuff which means harm the economy.

    Older owners still had enough brain to comprehend this but with the upcomming of newer CEOs and the fucking stock-market we´re now where we´re.
    Dude, in this comparison, the "Owner B"s of the real world are people like the Walton family, who own and run Wal-Mart. Or Jeff Bezos, of Amazon. They're the ones enjoying wild success. It doesn't "harm the economy", it is the economy.


  20. #440
    Pandaren Monk Tabrotar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Dude, in this comparison, the "Owner B"s of the real world are people like the Walton family, who own and run Wal-Mart. Or Jeff Bezos, of Amazon. They're the ones enjoying wild success. It doesn't "harm the economy", it is the economy.
    Yeah bcs wal-mart or Amazon are great companys who treat their employees good and care for them, oh wait a minute...

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