Council? Actually, Baine is the unofficial Warchief

[sam86]

I don't know what to say, except that i'm annoyed that i'm losing the ability to care for this game less and less with more time pass
keep that job blizz and i'll probably never log to wow again

[Shampro]

HAHAHAHAAH

Love it. A complete baffoon as your ''Warchief but not really''. hahahahaaha. Enjoy your Monkey Paw.

[LilSaihah]

I'm not sure how this makes Baine the Warchief. You're the one who fixes all the problems. Clearly the player is the Warchief???

I mean sure the throne's right there but maybe they haven't gotten around to redecorating. They've only just buried Saurfang.

[Shakana]

By the way, of course Sylvanas somehow appears in that video. That emo sucker always finds a way to appear.

And, uhm, Baine is behind Sylvanas... it looks like something disturbing...

x'DD

They are moving from her being Warchief and still she makes an appearance, ofc!! Goddamn Sylvanas.

Sylvanas went from a slave emo *gurl* to Hitler.

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It's clearly human potential either way..

This whole game came from hooman potential. xD

[Aucald]

I'm not really seeing how any of this implies that Baine has somehow been promoted to "the unofficial Warchief?" Sure, Baine is standing in Grommash Hold taking care of some business with the Horde's various allies - how does this make him Warchief? He's a member of the new ruling council in high standing, but theoretically any of them could do the job he's currently doing. Seems like a pretty big leap to assume he's taken on some kind of additional and unofficial leadership role beyond the one he already has (which would enable him to do what he's currently doing in any case).

[shadowmatrix]

Blizzard forgotTM? or they are just doing with the ancador fruit? who even knows anymore

The Arcandor's fruit is a one time treatment for their mana addiction, once they eat it their bodies resume a normalized mana state.

[TickTickTick]

Well that was kind of obvious the moment they announced there would be no faction merge in Shadowlands.

Up until then I though the council is just a bandaid, something temporary until 9.0 and after the faction merge there would be no faction leaders, just race leaders.

But since there's no merge, they somehow have to excuse the lack of hostility between factions, at least for one expack, and what a better way to do it than to have Anduinn already where he is and placing his pet, Baine, at the highest seat of the Horde?

Disgusting? Yes. Understandable? Also yes.

[Raisei]

Who said anything about Alliance killing them? Or about extinguishing the Alliance being a bad thing?

Oh that is simply the natural continuation of your story. Because we ALWAYS destroy the bad guys in the end. People that want to extinquish life on a planetary scale have a short life in this game. Ask Arthas, the Legion, the Old Gods (and I mean out of game time, not the millenia of lore time, just saying, before you tell me those all lead long and healthy lifes) ... so if you want the Horde to be the lackeys of Psycho Banshee Sylvanas then this is the way they are going.

Weird, I vividly recall you pretending you have the Horde's best intentions in another thread. How quaint.

I admit that you and some of the other Sylvanas apologists in this forum managed to show me that the Horde can likely not be safed, because it doesn`t want to be anything but a bloodthirsty band of warmongers. This thread alone shows that whatever is happening you people will not be happy unless the next Psychopath takes over and storms some village in the Eastern Kingdom to slaughter children.

Likewise, I said nothing about the game ending. And Horde turning into a slave of the Alliance thanks to being ruled by people who outright defected the faction and ran over to the High King of the Alliance in the still current expansion isn't "evolution" by any stretch of the word. It's the Horde devolving to what it was between WC2 and WC3. So a devolution of almost 20 years in magnitude.

Kay, so when you say:

Sylvanas knew the way. We could be bringing the End Times upon WoW as the Horde right now

You were actually making a very positive statement about the End Times dungeon, I suppose?

I also will never understand how you can call people, that safed you from being killed in a pointless war to feed Sylvanas lust for power and her Jailer buddy "defectors" and "traitors". Especially since the system of the Horde`s blood oath does not allow any other way to protest your unelected leaders decisions. You either go along with the slaughter or you are a traitor, or you let yourself be pointlessly slaughtered in single combat.

Even a mad ogre could see that the Horde was just a bunch of sheep, how can you actively WANT to be this. How? It is unfathomable for me.

[Lochton]

He seems more like a speaker to me.


Can we talk about more importantly that Nomi is part of the Horde workforce?

[Combatbutler]

Can we talk about more importantly that Nomi is part of the Horde workforce?

Just means he is part of the horde, considering how much he likes to burn stuff he fits right in.

He seems more like a speaker to me.

No one else is there, Kiro walks up asks and gets immediately told sorry but no, even if he is the speaker Baine has no authority to deny or grant anything.

[Lochton]

Just means he is part of the horde, considering how much he likes to burn stuff he fits right in.

Thought the Dark Iron Dwarves would like him for that.

No one else is there, Kiro walks up asks and gets immediately told sorry but no, even if he is the speaker Baine has no authority to deny or grant anything.

Sometimes a speaker, and member of a council, has to take the choice if there is no other members there. Even so, the Vulpera SHOWED that the Horde needed them.

[Combatbutler]

Sometimes a speaker, and member of a council, has to take the choice if there is no other members there. Even so, the Vulpera SHOWED that the Horde needed them.

This kind of decision is outside of his league, no matter how you look at it. New potential members are a big deal. But then again fits blizz usually idiocy concerning councils, Jaina's little adventure as leader of the Kirin tor is a very good example on how not to write a council.

Seems they intend to continue the trend.

[Lochton]

This kind of decision is outside of his league, no matter how you look at it. New potential members are a big deal. But then again fits blizz usually idiocy concerning councils, Jaina's little adventure as leader of the Kirin tor are a very good example on how not to write a council.

Seems they intend to continue the trend.

Well, it seems Thalryssa is more intent of having Suramar running, so her council seat is biased, and Lor'themar is in her sex dungeon, so we won't hear from him. Thrall is SOMEWHERE. The Highmountain chief is somewhere. Rokhan is not there either, nor is the Princess or Gazlowe. We can safely presume that lore wise at that point, the Horde is stretched so thin that even missing some peons can cause us stress. Sometimes you have to make the decision based on what you have - there was a resource right in front of him and most likely days or weeks before the council could be brought together again.

[Combatbutler]

Well, it seems Thalryssa is more intent of having Suramar running, so her council seat is biased, and Lor'themar is in her sex dungeon, so we won't hear from him. Thrall is SOMEWHERE. The Highmountain chief is somewhere. Rokhan is not there either, nor is the Princess or Gallywix. We can safely presume that lore wise at that point, the Horde is stretched so thin that even missing some peons can cause us stress. Sometimes you have to make the decision based on what you have - there was a resource right in front of him and most likely days or weeks before the council could be brought together again.

Then you tell them to wait, councils are usually not fast and efficient, but rather slow especially one as designed as this one. Everyone gets a say on a council and no one on it has more power than the others, even the speaker ultimately just speaks for what the council has decided and does not make his own decisions.

Blizz decided to create a council, that does not work like a council in the slightest. Maintaining such a council storywise would mean more work and we all know how much blizz likes to half ass such things, with this scenario being a prime example.

[Lochton]

Then you tell them to wait, councils are usually not fast and efficient, but rather slow especially one as designed as this one. Everyone gets a say on a council and no one on it has more power than the others, even the speaker ultimately just speaks for what the council has decided and does not make his own decisions.

Blizz decided to create a council, that does not work like a council in the slightest. Maintaining such a council storywise would mean more work and we all know how much blizz likes to half ass such things, with this scenario being a prime example.

Well, he should make them wait but I would say he reacted on the need of resources. Maybe drama later on but you could say he reacted on a stressful situation. Even so, Thalryssa could've objected in the appearance.

In the end we are most likely arguing about missing overview from the writers.

[Syegfryed]

I'm not really seeing how any of this implies that Baine has somehow been promoted to "the unofficial Warchief?" Sure, Baine is standing in Grommash Hold taking care of some business with the Horde's various allies - how does this make him Warchief?

- He is in grommash hold, the place where anyone besides an orc stay there is warchief
- He is bossing around and doing the bussines of someone else city, when he should be taking care of thudnerbluff
- He denied the request of other race to join the horde, saying HE CAN'T, like it was his decision to make

he is the warchief without the name

but theoretically any of them could do the job he's currently doing.

Then why nobody else, especially an orc is doing the job?

Seems like a pretty big leap to assume he's taken on some kind of additional and unofficial leadership role beyond the one he already has (which would enable him to do what he's currently doing in any case).

he is doing what a warchief does, making a decision by himself and not by the council.

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Only because Saurfang got orcmentia and started thinking that Horde deaths were better than Allliance, Baine's always thought like that though.

if she didn't start the war, or burn down teldrassil for some death entity from the beginning and end of times he would not get "orcmentia"

she trigger his ptsd, its her fault

[Aucald]

- He is in grommash hold, the place where anyone besides an orc stay there is warchief
- He is bossing around and doing the bussines of someone else city, when he should be taking care of thudnerbluff
- He denied the request of other race to join the horde, saying HE CAN'T, like it was his decision to make

There's like an entire retinue of people inside Grommash Hold, from every Horde race. Baine is a leader of the Horde, and so he's fully able to "boss around" various underlings and has done so well before this. Orgrimmar is the capitol of the Horde itself, the seat of its political power, and Baine is a member of the recently impaneled Council of Leaders. It may well be his decision to make as well, as Baine may be the de facto chief ambassador for the Horde, a job he's been doing for most of BfA now.

he is the warchief without the name

Given that his label is still "High Chieftain," he definitely doesn't have the name - and given that the Horde no longer has a Warchief, but a ruling council, he's doing the job one would expect him.

Then why nobody else, especially an orc is doing the job?

What specifically about being the Horde's ambassador requires an Orc? I mean any of a number of the representatives of the Council could do it, sure; but why is it terrible for Baine to be that person?

he is doing what a warchief does, making a decision by himself and not by the council.

If the Council has given him the job of being the ambassador and handling claims from would-be allies, then it would indeed be a decision he makes himself. Councils don't generally sit to ratify *everything* that happens, they delegate certain tasks to members or committees. If Baine were unilaterally declaring war or issuing commands to others this might be a stronger argument - but he's not. He more or less hearing petitions and deciding whether or not to act on them.

[Syegfryed]

There's like an entire retinue of people inside Grommash Hold, from every Horde race.

noo, he is in the place where the warchief, or the orc leader stay, he is not the orc leader, what remains?

Baine is a leader of the Horde, and so he's fully able to "boss around" various underlings and has done so well before this.

its not his city,sure he can boss around, but he is bossing around in someone else city, in the place of the wrchief

Orgrimmar is the capitol of the Horde itself

And first and foremost, the orcish city, their only city

the seat of its political power, and Baine is a member of the recently impaneled Council of Leaders.

It may well be his decision to make as well as Baine may be the de facto chief ambassador for the Horde

so he is actually the warchief, they are just not using the tittle anymore, but its essentially what he is now

before the warchief was above the racial leaders now, baine,as the "council leader" is above the "other members of the council"

Essentially the same shit.

a job he's been doing for most of BfA now.

was he? he only was in the embassy to recruit the HM tauren, and stay in zuldazar for the most of BfA.

Given that his label is still "High Chieftain," he definitely doesn't have the name - and given that the Horde no longer has a Warchief, but a ruling council, he's doing the job one would expect him.

who wouldexpect him to act like warchief in the or city?

if there is a council Thrall or other orc should be in orgrimmar, since there is no more warchief it would make little difference for the horde

What specifically about being the Horde's ambassador requires an Orc?

if he is the "horde' ambassador why he is not in the embassy then? theobvious place for the ambassador?

since there is no more warchief, but a council, an orc should lead orgrimmar, not a tauren

but why is it terrible for Baine to be that person?

i gonna skip the alliance lapdogthing and would say

- he is a tauren, he should stay in the tauren city,dealing with tauren stuff.
-if he is the ambassador he should be in the embassy

If the Council has given him the job of being the ambassador and handling claims from would-be allies, then it would indeed be a decision he makes himself.

but who gaveto him? did they even gave to him or we are just projecting? and again, why is he not in the embassy then?

Councils don't generally sit to ratify *everything* that happens

i know that, but something important like other race joining its not are matter to give to an only one member of the council


Lets face it, they wanted Baine to be warchief anyway, but people would be even more pissed cause nobody besides the alliance like him anymore, then they pain a bullshit council, but he will act like warchief anyway because it is his plans,and even if they kill him we can't say the horde lost another warchief.

[Raisei]

noo, he is in the place where the warchief, or the orc leader stay, he is not the orc leader, what remains?

its not his city,sure he can boss around, but he is bossing around in someone else city, in the place of the wrchief

And first and foremost, the orcish city, their only city

since there is no more warchief, but a council, an orc should lead orgrimmar, not a tauren

If only orcs are allowed to boss around other orcs, it follows that only trolls may boss around other trolls. So why does Zappyboi Zekhan take orders from Saurfang then? He is quite obviously more attached to Saurfang then to Rokhan. The reason is simple: Respect. Saurfang is a warhero and people do what he says even if he is not warchief.
The same goes for Baine (despite the unilateral hatred the community shows him) and all the other faction leaders plus some special cases like Liadrin and Thrall. When they give orders they are obeyed, they have proven themselves in the eyes of the grunts and thus will be followed.

Besides Orgrimmar is not just the city of the orcs, the same as Stormwind is not just a city of humans. They are the central knots of their respective factions no longer attached to a single race. You can bet that some Stormwind guardsman won`t question when Tyrande or Moira tell him to do something, unless it goes directly against a royal decree or the law.

so he is actually the warchief, they are just not using the tittle anymore, but its essentially what he is now

before the warchief was above the racial leaders now, baine,as the "council leader" is above the "other members of the council"

Essentially the same shit.

Even if that were true the difference is very important. Baine is liable towards the other council members, they can question his decisions and choose to negate them and appoint someone else as the council speaker. There is no more blood oath that binds you into eternal unquestioning servitude towards the Warchief and there is no Mak'gorah needed to remove a councilor.
If they invested in him the power to make decisions on behalve of the council then it is because he has their trust to make the correct ones (as someone else pointed out, a council does not meet every day to discuss every little bit of stuff coming up). But he also might just have had the bad luck to draw the duty of seeing to the Hordes day-to-day buisness (the stuff Sylvanas was always so annoyed with), while the other leaders attend to their own cities.
Maybe you forgot, but many of the Horde leaders actually consider Baine a very smart and honorable person. Vol'jin appointed him as Garroshs defendant not because he wanted him to fail, but because he knew that Baine would be the only one trustworthy enough to try and not make a mockery of the trial.

if there is a council Thrall or other orc should be in orgrimmar, since there is no more warchief it would make little difference for the horde

Thrall has clearly stated that he will not lead the Horde or anyone else again and even Saurfang did not expect him to. So, the last thing Thrall wants is to sit in that chair, but I am pretty sure I saw somewhere that he is in Orgrimmar, just like Eitrigg.

i know that, but something important like other race joining its not are matter to give to an only one member of the council

The council might have already decided that the Horde is willing to let in new people, if they have proven themselves as allies and want to join. To compare: I also do not have to call in every officer of my guild if I invite someone new. We decided we are recruiting, so every officer is allowed to invite people. Easy.

Lets face it, they wanted Baine to be warchief anyway, but people would be even more pissed cause nobody besides the alliance like him anymore, then they pain a bullshit council, but he will act like warchief anyway because it is his plans,and even if they kill him we can't say the horde lost another warchief.

If you think that then you haven't been paying attention.

BFA was all about breaking the cycle of violence between Horde and Alliance. They did not want another Warchief because then there might again be another psychopath like Garrosh and Sylvanas and again the Horde would be bound by the blood oath to follow them. The reason why Sylvanas was basically Garrosh 2.0. was because that was the point they wanted to make, as long as a Warchief leads the cycle will continue. The evolution to a council of equals deciding matters was very likely planned years ago.
What they probably did not anticipate is that the Horde playerbase would rather follow a genocial tyrant with the express goal of snuffing out all life on the planet (including the living members of the Horde) then a reasonable tauren and an honorable orc. But you have to admit that one is rather hard to fathom.

[Amaterasu65]

Baine as Warchief? Woohoo, enjoy it while it lasts folks!