Antifa member gets 6 years in prison for violence

[Orange Joe]

Not really. Because that negates the whole "Antifa are just people opposing Fascists", given nobody defines themselves as Fascists so I suspect its just "Whatever Antifa says is Fascism is Fascism" is the working definition of what a Fascist is.

Nothing you've said anyway provides a consistent way of determining who is or isn't beyond that.

Thats a requirement you have not me. If it looks like a fascist, acts like a fascist, smells like a fascist, You might just be a fascist.


So going by what you believe. How do YOU tell if someone is antifa?

[Theodarzna]

Thats a requirement you have not me. If it looks like a fascist, acts like a fascist, smells like a fascist, You might just be a fascist.


So going by what you believe. How do YOU tell if someone is antifa?

Its the only definition I can come to which doesn't boil down to "What Orange Joe thinks is a Fascist is a Fascist". I would not trust Antifa to define its own enemies anymore than Skroe or you would trust this board with me as a Moderator.

If someone says they are part of Antifa; I tend to believe them? Especially if they have flags, shirts, buttons and such that have the red and black flag and say "Antifaschite Aktion" or whatever.

[Orange Joe]

Its the only definition I can come to which doesn't boil down to "What Orange Joe thinks is a Fascist is a Fascist". I would not trust Antifa to define its own enemies anymore than Skroe or you would trust this board with me as a Moderator.

If someone says they are part of Antifa; I tend to believe them? Especially if they have flags, shirts, buttons and such that have the red and black flag and say "Antifaschite Aktion" or whatever.

And if they just wear that stuff and say they aren't, you still take them at their word?

[Theodarzna]

And if they just wear that stuff and say they aren't, you still take them at their word?

I guess it would depend. If they wore all that and denied being in Antifa; I'd ask why they were dressed like that.

[Orange Joe]

I guess it would depend. If they wore all that and denied being in Antifa; I'd ask why they were dressed like that.

Ahh... so it's ok for you to deem someone as antifa based on their actions. but we can't deem someone fascist based on their actions


..... lmfao... I'm out.

[Theodarzna]

Ahh... so it's ok for you to deem someone as antifa based on their actions. but we can't deem someone fascist based on their actions


..... lmfao... I'm out.

Me believing someone is in Antifa or not isn't going to lead to someone getting assaulted. :3

[Orange Joe]

Me believing someone is in Antifa or not isn't going to lead to someone getting assaulted. :3

Take your hypocrisy to someone that cares

[pionock]

And I have never even implied such a thing.

- - - Updated - - -



It’s hilarious because he also ignored the question where 10% literally said they support the alt-right by focusing on the same percentage saying it’s cool to be a neo nazi.

While I don't want to stop you two from getting high on your farts, I still don't see how that changes makes your point any stronger. Yeah, I made an oopsie and got my numbers mixed up, but roughly 40 strongly agrees and 60 somewhats still doesn't really show me anything. Given the Alt-Right is only a movement coined by Richard Spencer, I'd say it has a pretty rigid definition. Yet I've seen a wide range (a spectrum, if you will) of alt-right accusations thrown people like Spencer's "peaceful ethnic cleansing", which I would say is truly fascist since he wants the state to bring his dream to life, all the way to people who maybe think men shouldn't be making the best women and maybe it's not cool to tell kids their trans. And as @Theodarzna said, it's quite odd that merely claiming to be Antifa makes you so, but only they seem to be the arbiters of who gets the Bike Lock of FashyBash+1.

And to go back to the study, since we're in the business of hand-waving and obfuscating anything and everything Antifa is and does, I'm going to take that question and the 10% with a big ol' grain of salt. Something tells me I doubt the phone surveyor spent the time to go in depth with the nuances of what the real, actual Alt-Right movement is, they're probably letting the people taking the survey use whatever definition they think it means, which probably comes from whatever media they consume.

[Theodarzna]

Take your hypocrisy to someone that cares

lol.... I guess I'll let you have that one since you've been flailing about for a win and have masterfully avoided saying anything too meaningful. Though you did admit the standard by which the Antifa movement defines a Fascist is purely their own, and that no, it isn't just "People opposing Fascists" since the definition of Fascism is rather broad and open to interpretation. Which Antifa types reserve for themselves the right to make that call and to just assault people based on that call.

As of yet Antifa has attacked a number of fascists I can count on one hand. Otherwise its just a bunch of Commies and useful fools playing dress up and LARPing as vanguards of the revolution.

[Monster Hunter]

A singular individual in a group you made up as Antifa cracks someone skull vs thousands of violent morons from the Alt-Right who Kill people, hit them with their cars and commit murder from an actually self admitted white nationalist and white supremacist movement, like the KKK and Nazi's.


Ah well that said if this man did the crime he can do the crime and pay for his deeds, not exactly sure your point in posting this other than yell Eureka you think you finally got one.

Yes, and those alt right individuals also face jail for the crimes the commit.

But by the logic you apply here you couldn't blame the Nazis for the violance if a few.

Yet we rightly do, because we know and recognise the role that group membership and ideology plays in motivating the violance.

Just as the kkk and the Nazis incite violance from there members against other groups so do many anarchist and communist groups which is why you find a health mixture of both on lists of banned orgonisations and groups.

You cannot ignore that affiliation to any group that advocates violent actions isn't a contributing factor in a person's violance.

And violance for any reason is wrong, because it solves nothing, violance is a circle, it feeds its self and grows, we hae decades of resurch into gangs to know this. Ofc this is where some argue "well we solved the last nazi problem with violance" which to any one who has read the history of 1920s Germany is such a stupid statment considering the street fighting between the Nazis and communists was one of the main contributing factors to the Nazis rise in power in the first place. And further more it took 2 of the largest empires the world has ever seen, a communist power and America to put them down, and the toxic ideology still exhists....

The best way to fight intolerance is with education and inclusion. There are far lower rates of extremist ideologys amongst those raised in diverse multicultural communities.

[JohnBrown1917]

Yes, and those alt right individuals also face jail for the crimes the commit.

But by the logic you apply here you couldn't blame the Nazis for the violance if a few.

Yet we rightly do, because we know and recognise the role that group membership and ideology plays in motivating the violance.

Just as the kkk and the Nazis incite violance from there members against other groups so do many anarchist and communist groups which is why you find a health mixture of both on lists of banned orgonisations and groups.

You cannot ignore that affiliation to any group that advocates violent actions isn't a contributing factor in a person's violance.

And violance for any reason is wrong, because it solves nothing, violance is a circle, it feeds its self and grows, we hae decades of resurch into gangs to know this. Ofc this is where some argue "well we solved the last nazi problem with violance" which to any one who has read the history of 1920s Germany is such a stupid statment considering the street fighting between the Nazis and communists was one of the main contributing factors to the Nazis rise in power in the first place. And further more it took 2 of the largest empires the world has ever seen, a communist power and America to put them down, and the toxic ideology still exhists....

The best way to fight intolerance is with education and inclusion. There are far lower rates of extremist ideologys amongst those raised in diverse multicultural communities.

You must have missed the part where opressions is part of the nazi idealogy, unlike many form of anarchism or socialism.

[Monster Hunter]

You must have missed the part where opressions is part of the nazi idealogy, unlike many form of anarchism or socialism.

oppression is part of any extreme ideology, theocracy's. monarchy's, communism, fascism, some oligarchy's, they may be different in beliefs but they have a funny tendency to share similar tactics in enforcing there will on the people. many of them explicitly adovate it, such as how marx advocated the oppression of religion and the religious to force society into atheism and secularism. the whole transition period marx called the "dictatorship of the proletariat" is heavily based on using oppression to change society and human nature towards true communism, he used the word dictatorship literally.

anarchism the level of oppression depends on what form of anarchism you are talking about, communal living or collectivism dosnt advocate oppression to enforce it will, but theres the solid argument from the philosophers that all anarchy eventually devolve into class systems and tyranny's .

socialism also doesn't set out with the intent to oppress people but various factors that can occurred from heavily socialist systems do lead to instances of oppression in many socialist nations in history and currently. thats essentially though a pit fall of most systems the rely on a large heavy handed state that lacks the delicacy of local government in dealing with peoples problems and issues before they become national issues.

[Malaky]

Only if one's dumb enough to assume anti-fascists are some sort of hive mind and that one anti-fascist being violent does not remotely detract from the legitimacy of the position.

Would you extend the same leeway to right-wingers?
I suspect not.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Take your hypocrisy to someone that cares

And thus, you've finally reached the root of the last 3 years of Theo's posting on these forums. The rules she's constructed for her world and ideologies apply to everyone... except her and the people she identifies as politically acceptable. "Rules are for thee, not for me."

Your first hint that she was posting in bad faith was always answering your questions with questions.

[The Butt Witch]

Are we still pretending that Democrats have something to do with Antifa?

Not seeing any Democrat criticizing Antifa. So "tell me who your friends are...".

[Saucexorzski]

Well that's good. Domestic terrorists should be held responsible for their crimes. If they were willing to protest non-violently that be a great thing, and would show folks that they truly stand for positive ideals. its a real shame that they clad themselves in all black, and mask themselves when they engage in their violent hostility towards anyone, regardless of ideology, that stand in their way.

[Orbitus]

Well that's good. Domestic terrorists should be held responsible for their crimes. If they were willing to protest non-violently that be a great thing, and would show folks that they truly stand for positive ideals. its a real shame that they clad themselves in all black, and mask themselves when they engage in their violent hostility towards anyone, regardless of ideology, that stand in their way.

They are domestic terrorists? Since when? Meanwhile, they STILL haven't killed anyone. While your side has hundreds of deaths on their hands over the last few years.

[Saucexorzski]

They are domestic terrorists? Since when? Meanwhile, they STILL haven't killed anyone. While your side has hundreds of deaths on their hands over the last few years.

Yes yes i've heard all the excuses you have for your support of this terrorist group before. Nothing new to your justification at all. Nothing new in you attributing the actions of others to me. What a good authoritarian left winger you are to come to their defense time and time again. I'm sure one day the world will bow down to your idea of peace, least they get beaten in the streets.

[Orbitus]

Yes yes i've heard all the excuses you have for your support of this terrorist group before. Nothing new to your justification at all. Nothing new in you attributing the actions of others to me. What a good authoritarian left winger you are to come to their defense time and time again. I'm sure one day the world will bow down to your idea of peace, least they get beaten in the streets.

No, tell me, what makes them a terrorist group? Your gut feelings? Hurt feelers by Trump supporters? Meanwhile, you are supporting a racist piece of shit that cheers on other racist pieces of shit like the morons that were "good people on both sides" at the Charlottesville hate rally.

Body count for left wing terrorism STILL ZERO since the mid 80s.

Since JUST 2001, for right wingers, literally hundreds, including several mass shootings carried out by Trump supporters.

[Saucexorzski]

No, tell me, what makes them a terrorist group? Your gut feelings? Hurt feelers by Trump supporters? Meanwhile, you are supporting a racist piece of shit that cheers on other racist pieces of shit like the morons that were "good people on both sides" at the Charlottesville hate rally.

Body count for left wing terrorism STILL ZERO since the mid 80s.

Since JUST 2001, for right wingers, literally hundreds, including several mass shootings carried out by Trump supporters.

you can call me a trump supporter all you want to make yourself feel good. I don't care. But i've told you time and time again I do not support him. you look like a fool to me every time you engage in this pointless angle of attack on my character. Its humors me, that you are so blinded by your hatred of one man, you can't even tell those who argue against you apart.