Pathfinder returns for Shadowlands

[Sarevokcz]

Alternative: Allow flying mounts within 30 yards of the flight point. Problem solved?

This means players would be able to fly fast for the first quest (assuming the quest hub has a fp) but from there on out its ground mounts only. Players cant escape from pvp or unnecessary crazy flying rules. Seems like a decent compromise to me.

the fuck is with these retarded ideas. Id rather have the aviana wings from WoD back than this.

He is right, Blizzard decided to drop the ball when it comes to zone design, instead of learning from stuff like ogrilla with the canons and having large, indoor areas they just thrown in the towel and said "fuck it." The zones are getting really stale and boring with their one-dimensional approach...

[d00dles]

Didn't I already answer this in another thread? All that change would do is cause people to hearth/whistle ans re-arm their flying before dropping from above onto whatever spot. PVP with this change would always favor the first attacker, and make ganking even more degenerate than it already is.

It also doesn't address the issue of flying over content not designed for it, and just makes it more annoying to use. Getting and using flight needs to add to the game, not irritate players.

I should have clarified a couple of things. Let me try this again:

- Pathfinder should still exist.
- Max level characters can now to use flying mounts while near a flight point at 150% flying speed (only in zones where you can obtain Pathfinder).
- Players WITHOUT Pathfinder takes an additional 30% damage for 15 seconds after dismounting from flying mounts.
- Increased cooldown on whistle.

How this solves (most of) the problems:

- Players can now use flying mounts (but slower) before Pathfinder become available.
- People can still hearth/whistle if they choose, but they will be wasting their cooldowns anyway.
- Ganking already happens without flying. Opting out of war mode is still an option.
- Makes flying dangerous. Gankers have to dismount first and wait before attacking.

It's not perfect but adds a bit more freedom for people that really want it.

the fuck is with these retarded ideas. Id rather have the aviana wings from WoD back than this.

He is right, Blizzard decided to drop the ball when it comes to zone design, instead of learning from stuff like ogrilla with the canons and having large, indoor areas they just thrown in the towel and said "fuck it." The zones are getting really stale and boring with their one-dimensional approach...

Holy toxicity batman! If you can't have a proper discussion ON A FORUM then keep it to yourself, buddy.

Or just go to 4chan (assuming you are not already there)

[hulkgor]

World PvP was not hindered by flying people still got away on ground mounts just as easy.

Yea, no. And the fact that you consider ground mounts and flying mounts to be the same in that regard is absolutely absurd. But hey, agree to disagree.

[Starter]

Flying makes the world seem small. In addition to ruining world pvp.

[Demeia]

What they like and what the players like are often not the same. Perhaps a big reason why the subs have absolutely fucking plummeted is them doing what "they like" exclusively?

They had a lot of support for removing flying when they did it--they expertly split the community as if that was their intention--but it seem that since they brought it back the pro-flying crowd is simply winning. They can keep the pathfinder business they just need to push forward how soon it's available.

And sure, they could disable flying for PvP and further increase the rewards of world activities to make up for it.

[Sondrelk]

Flying makes the world seem small. In addition to ruining world pvp.

It also removed various parkour related challenges. There is little joy in playing a DH in Zuldazar and discovering the dragon skeleton easter egg on top of Mount Mugamba if you are constantly made aware that you can simply fly up there instead.

Flying isnt really fun. It is convenient, i have yet to find the person who truly loves flying around randomly in circles. I am far more likely to find people who enjoy the expansion before flying when they can set themselves challenges like trying to scale the mountains of BfA, or seeing how high on the Boralus Admiralty castle you can climb.



Once the expansion is over, feel free to give flying though, but don't try to argue that flying is anything but skipping over parts of the game.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Keep Pathfinder, but don't make Part 2 a requirement. I can't stand Mechagon or Nazjatar, and I don't want to fly there let alone gain any rep with their inhabitants. First time this game has me at such a standstill.

I loved Pathfinder Part 1, seems fair.

[SirCowdog]

I should have clarified a couple of things. Let me try this again:

- Pathfinder should still exist.
- Max level characters can now to use flying mounts while near a flight point at 150% flying speed (only in zones where you can obtain Pathfinder).
- Players WITHOUT Pathfinder takes an additional 30% damage for 15 seconds after dismounting from flying mounts.
- Increased cooldown on whistle.

How this solves (most of) the problems:

- Players can now use flying mounts (but slower) before Pathfinder become available.
- People can still hearth/whistle if they choose, but they will be wasting their cooldowns anyway.
- Ganking already happens without flying. Opting out of war mode is still an option.
- Makes flying dangerous. Gankers have to dismount first and wait before attacking.

It's not perfect but adds a bit more freedom for people that really want it.

Penalizing players for using something they enjoy is a bad idea, and this setup doesn't address any of the underlying design issues with the open world that are causing problems in the first place.

Keeping it more simple would be a better solution:

Disable flight with war mode and start flying mounts out at 60% speed like it was in TBC.
Actually design zones with flying in mind using whatever combination of suggestions listed in this thread and others.
Keep Pathfinder, but now it increases speed of flight for each stage, up to a maximum of the same speed as ground mounts.

- - - Updated - - -

They had a lot of support for removing flying when they did it.

There's a certain portion of the playerbase that would support just about ANYTHING Blizzard does. Every time Blizz does something terrible, people jump up to defend it, both in game and out.

WoD's open world was a trainwreck of ideas, most of them not really all that good. Legion's open world was slightly better, but got by on almost pure fanservice. There was a lot of outrage about getting flight back, only to be cut off at the knees by "This is Argus". And BfA is...meh... competing for the title of "worst expansion ever". And Shadowlands pathfinder got boo'd at blizzcon.

The craziest part is that Ion thought those boo's were cheers. It really explains some of the disconnect between the players and devs that WoW has seen in the past.

[8bithamster]

Actually haven't played BFA in ages (and haven't felt compelled to) , so at this point it's easy to just keep not playing.

I would be OK with flying being removed entirely if they stuck to their guns, I just hate having it dangled over my face with a bunch of stupid tedious rep grinds that are time-gated over a year. Of course I much prefer they just go back to the TBC/WOTLK/CATA/MOP formula where you just buy flying at max level, would be simpler and please more people that way.

I play WoW for raiding/arena/RBGs/occasional WPVP, not to spam world quests every 18 hours.

Over a year? Jesus, how slow do you rep farm.. If you start now, you can have it rather fast.

[deenman]

Looks like I won't be preordering.

I'm sick of this garbage. Literally nobody complained before WOD about flying except like 1% of World PVPers, and another 1% of avid roleplayers who claimed "Muh immersion!"

Even Blizzard's most avid fanbase in attendance at Blizzcon was largely unimpressed by this announcement

This isnt about complainers,the blizzard art team has started doing some amazing zones in these last expansions,and they simply want us to experience the world from a grounded design,simple as that,unless the zone philosophy changes,like it was in wrath where it was made for flying,and most of it was just big empty spaces,we wont be seeing it go away

[Khaza-R]

I am pretty tired of pathfinder.

Shadowlands would have been the perfect chance to shake things up. Instead of doing PF, they could of implemented an epic quest chain to give your flying mounts a spirit form in the Shadowlands. Then afterwards you are free to fly.

[Dristereau]

I don't mind it. Flying speeds up the game massively and affects the game a lot. I feel it changes the game.

I can understand Blizzard want people grounded at the start. It's more of adventure that way and more dangerous. It also allows the content to be experienced how Blizzard want us to see it. I've done Pathfinder on two accounts. My Alt Account it took around three weeks due to Tortollan Rep being slow. I've quested full zones since and it was much quicker and a lot less challenging.

I think I like Pathfinder, especially Part One. Part Two, I'm a little 'meh' about. Mechagon/Nazjatar aren't to me very fun zones, especially grounded. Mechagon gets much better when you get the Anti-Gravity Pack. I guess I feel like Flying is like a cheat pack. Adding it on after a period of time when it's less relevant is okay to me.

[Starscream101]

Yea, no. And the fact that you consider ground mounts and flying mounts to be the same in that regard is absolutely absurd. But hey, agree to disagree.

Im saying before flying i got away on ground mounts and still do in classic so saying flying mounts is what ruined world pvp is total bs

[rrayy]

Oh great, another reason not to buy this garbage expansion.

And to all the people saying to shut up and move on about pathfinder - what? Maybe you should just shut up about class balancing and unpruning of abilities then? Actually shut about everything you don't like! People that pay money for a game should have no say in how it is going to be designed!

You don't have a say in how it is designed. You NEVER had a say. All your sub entitles you to is access to the game servers. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[kaminaris]

great idea. thumbs up.

Yeah brilliant idea and then warmode dies cause nobody is there.

[Cattyrin]

If not at launch they should move it to 9.1 instead of 9.2

[op3l]

I personally just want to log on and do a few quests so anything that will let me do that faster is better.

I don't really find the game more "fun" when I have to navigate terrain and run through mobs.

[VooDsXo]

That's unfortunate. I'd much rather flying not exist at all so the game doesn't get ruined a few patches down the line for the sake of the 1% of the playerbase (look, I can pull numbers out my ass too!) who just want to fly and avoid conflict because they're bad or want to do world quests for that upgrade they desperately need to compete in LFR.

Also, yes, people did complain about flying prior to WoD. Maybe you just didn't play the game?

Though considering you won't preorder (you will, we know you will), that means it's more and more likely for them to not have flying in future expansions!


Now for the less sarcastic response: instead of complaining, push for the best of both worlds: DO NOT ALLOW FLYING IN WAR MODE. Simple fix, been saying it since Warmode was announced. Awesome, I know.

You want flying, I want to play the game and be able to WPvP properly; you won't be in Warmode, I will. Seriously just spam blizzard with no flying in Warmode and I won't give a shit if flying is implemented at the start of the expansion because it won't effect me.

I mean if we go simply go by the number of posts known to be complaining about flying being available early it would be less than 1% of the population. There is and always has been more pressing issues with game content well beyond the skew of flying. It would take a real lot of posts to get 1% of the population of forum posting individuals let alone 1% of the population of players. So I mean yea just saying 1% is pulling numbers out of his ass, but really there isn't and never has been a large number of flying complaints. The chances are you can find more evidence of people asking for easier access to flying or wondering why we couldn't fly in the ghostlands when you could everywhere else.

[MrDaemon]

Flying should unlock instantly when you hit max level. This way immersion is not ruined and its not too late so people are not pissed.

But it wont happen since flying achievements are made to force people to resub and lower the pace at which people consume content.

[Velerios]

No to instantly available at max level: pathfinder is a good system. But as above in the poll mentioned: It should be available at release. When you reach pathfinder, mean you have Loremaster, Explorer AND Diplomat, then you should be able to fly. Not instantly at 60, but when you reached this goal like we had it before. Flying should be available at start, but you need to do something for it.

One exception for maybe NO FLYING at all: the maw.

Patch content should have it's own loremaster, or no flying at all.