What really killed World PvP?

[gestapo]

No. Flying wasn't the sole contributor to the decline of WPVP. Many good points were brought up, including some of the stuff I mentioned in my first post:

- Introduction of Battlegrounds (and later Arena). I'm not bashing these because I really enjoy bg/arena, but the sandbox pvp system did cause world pvp to take a massive hit because before that it was the only form of pvp we had. Obviously.

- Enabling players to queue for battlegrounds from anywhere. Previously one would have to actually go to the location to queue. While being able to queue from anywhere was a major convenience it did affect world pvp. Great battles were had when one faction stormed the others' queue portal - especially the AV queues. I think Tarren Mill - Southshore pvp was still somewhat active then as well.

- Enabling players to queue for dungeons from anywhere. Same as above.

- Flying mounts. Yes, it did affect world pvp, but at the same time I want to make the argument that it probably enabled it in some places as well. When the world defense channel lights up - or people call in guildies/friends flying makes it easier/quicker to get there to defend a place/person from the enemy.

- The world becoming bigger. Yes, as expansions are added players are more spread out through content. The world was big, but there were only so many places people would be in during vanilla/bc. Even more so after it peaked and then dropped it's number of subscriptions.

Arguably I'd say the BG's dealt the biggest blow. You could now get gear & pvp action through instanced combat instead of out in the world.

[Hb]

Cross realms.

Realm transfer.

Flying mounts.

Faction change.

[Deleted]

The only time WPVP was alive and doing really great was before any BG were introduced.
Once they were, little skirmishes used to happen from time to time but nothing comparable.

I used to raid astranaar when i was lvl 30 with 2-3 raids full of lvl20-50. Good old times when I had not a single clue about this game

[Deleted]

Nothing ppl get pissed of to be ganked and they now join to BG/Arena if they want to pvp

[Dnusha]

I don't know why you guys think World PvP is dead. Everyone who wants to find it will find it.

[Deleted]

I don't know why you guys think World PvP is dead. Everyone who wants to find it will find it.

5v1 ganks on TI or solo mode survivor mode kills are far from being World PvP at it's finest really.

[Marlberg2963]

World PvP is dead? Tell that to the dozen or so people I killed at the PvP vendor in the past hour.

Not enough of a percentage of players engaging in wpvp to be statistically significant == wpvp is dead.

[Calfredd]

Not enough of a percentage of players engaging in wpvp to be statistically significant == wpvp is dead.

5 year old thread

[Aggrophobic]

World PvP was never that fun. Nothing killed it, people just realized that it was bad ans stopped doing it.

[Kagthul]

World PvP was never that fun. Nothing killed it, people just realized that it was bad ans stopped doing it.

I was going to say basically this.

World PvP wasnt ever good. Not ever. Not once.

It was always bad.

The only thing that had to happen for wPvP to die was for other PvP that was actually fun to be available.

That simple.

[Dorthonion1]

1) Game is less social as a whole
2) Game world is way bigger so fewer people per zone
3) More teleports like LFD mean less time in open world
4) Playerbase is probably older than in the past and focused on more serious content
5) Bad rewards for HKs. Nobody cares about cosmetic stuff like honour mounts because so many are in the game now.

[Nathasil]

Factions killed WPvP. There i said it.

I play on a low-pop-german RP PvE realm...and still there was ALWAYS WPvP going on on Timeless Isle. Wonder why? What is so different about Timeless Isle separating it from the rest of the game.....help me out here...i cannot really put my finger on it....

SL would have been an opportunity to remove factions from WPvP. The story was there. And the systems needed this change as everybody who actually used Warmode during BFA can tell you. Yet Blizzard refuses because it is "somehow what makes warcraft warcraft"....cool story, bro. But not the story actually told in the game.

Whatever. After this miserable Blizzcon with extremely little effort to innovate in ANY of the Blizzard games, let alone *gasp* try something new...i am kind of sure that SL will just continue the down-spiral of BFA.

Edit:
As for the inevitable question of why WPvP worked in the beginning despite factions: Because back then there was no paid-faction/realm-transfer to join the winning team. As soon as players had these tools and understood how incredibly fucked up and one-sided factions are in this game, it was all going exactly where we are now: At a permanent 20-30% warmode bonus for the Alliance.
There is a reason why BG-Qs had to be made cross-server and even cross-language (for the enemy team) YEARS before anybody even thought about cross-server LFD.

[crusadernero]

5v1 ganks on TI or solo mode survivor mode kills are far from being World PvP at it's finest really.

Thats how Wpvp works. People rarely attacks if they are alone. When grouped up, they start ganking/killing everyone on sight. Until then, they stear clear. Or they are just high lvl players killing lowbies.

Just look at classic. Its just as it was back in the old days. Undead rogues lurking about in Darkshore & Redridge. Why? Easy low lvl targets that you can kill, ruining theyre gametime.

Or lets take STV. People return to this place just to piss on lower lvl players, while doing theyre best to avoid in actual 1v1/2v2 combat. Its even worse in retail cause max lvl players just fly off if other faction calls for help.

in short: wpvp has never been about fair game. Its almost always unfair in one way or another. Reason it was so popular back in the day was because there was no BG to fight the other faction in. So players went out in the world hunting for them.

wpvp in classic when BGs are out will be two things:
1. Huge raids for citys.
2. Gankfest where the player attacking wants to avoid any reasonable fight.

[Daedius]

Biggest contributor would have to be flying.

[crusadernero]

Factions killed WPvP. There i said it.

I play on a low-pop-german RP PvE realm...and still there was ALWAYS WPvP going on on Timeless Isle. Wonder why? What is so different about Timeless Isle separating it from the rest of the game.....help me out here...i cannot really put my finger on it....

SL would have been an opportunity to remove factions from WPvP. The story was there. And the systems needed this change as everybody who actually used Warmode during BFA can tell you. Yet Blizzard refuses because it is "somehow what makes warcraft warcraft"....cool story, bro. But not the story actually told in the game.

Whatever. After this miserable Blizzcon with extremely little effort to innovate in ANY of the Blizzard games, let alone *gasp* try something new...i am kind of sure that SL will just continue the down-spiral of BFA.

Edit:
As for the inevitable question of why WPvP worked in the beginning despite factions: Because back then there was no paid-faction/realm-transfer to join the winning team. As soon as players had these tools and understood how incredibly fucked up and one-sided factions are in this game, it was all going exactly where we are now: At a permanent 20-30% warmode bonus for the Alliance.
There is a reason why BG-Qs had to be made cross-server and even cross-language (for the enemy team) YEARS before anybody even thought about cross-server LFD.

In short: people have other things to do than wpvp. Before BGs was put into the game, going out in the world looking for the other faction was the only way to pvp. Or duels.

It will be the same in classic when BGs are put into the game. wpvp will be left to ganking and fights were one faction outnumbers the other.

[babyback]

Biggest contributor would have to be flying.

Except that world PvP was more or less gone in vanilla. People couldn’t even be arsed to gank in blackrock mountain at the end.

[crusadernero]

Biggest contributor would have to be flying.

yes and no. In retail you can fly down, kill a lowbie and fly off. If the lower lvl calls for help and a max level shows up, its hard for them to actually take revenge since the enemy can fly off.

Can be done without flying to, its just a little more hassle to run away in safety. Atleast with flying you can come to the rescue quicker.

wpvp is not really about a fair fight anyway. People just want to annoy the other faction and get easily away with it.

In retail my experience is like this when out in the world doing lets say WQs:

I run up to a WQ spot. See 1 horde. Never am I being attacked if theres 1 horde there.
I run up to a WQ spot. See 5+ horde. Almost everytime im killed.

Or when leveling a alt in retail:
Max level player fly over me or run past me, kills me in 1 attack. People come to help, max level player flee, dont want to fight fair against someone on same lvl. Some just wait until low lvl are alone again, just to kill them again.

- - - Updated - - -

Except that world PvP was more or less gone in vanilla. People couldn’t even be arsed to gank in blackrock mountain at the end.

if at blackrock mountain, they are in groups.

gankers just go to lower lvl zones and cause havoc, STV being a popular choice.

[babyback]

yes and no. In retail you can fly down, kill a lowbie and fly off. If the lower lvl calls for help and a max level shows up, its hard for them to actually take revenge since the enemy can fly off.

Can be done without flying to, its just a little more hassle to run away in safety. Atleast with flying you can come to the rescue quicker.

wpvp is not really about a fair fight anyway. People just want to annoy the other faction and get easily away with it.

In retail my experience is like this when out in the world doing lets say WQs:

I run up to a WQ spot. See 1 horde. Never am I being attacked if theres 1 horde there.
I run up to a WQ spot. See 5+ horde. Almost everytime im killed.

Or when leveling a alt in retail:
Max level player fly over me or run past me, kills me in 1 attack. People come to help, max level player flee, dont want to fight fair against someone on same lvl. Some just wait until low lvl are alone again, just to kill them again.

- - - Updated - - -



if at blackrock mountain, they are in groups.

gankers just go to lower lvl zones and cause havoc, STV being a popular choice.

I don’t consider ganking lowbies world PvP. That’s just being a dick.

They tried with towers in Silithus and EPL but no one cared. Sure you could roll up as a guild for the buff, but if it already was a lot from the other faction there it was ignored bedside it took too much time of your raiding time.

[crusadernero]

I don’t consider ganking lowbies world PvP. That’s just being a dick.

They tried with towers in Silithus and EPL but no one cared. Sure you could roll up as a guild for the buff, but if it already was a lot from the other faction there it was ignored bedside it took too much time of your raiding time.

yes indeed, thats just being a dick - and thats wpvp in a nutshell. People dont want a challenge out in the world, they look for easy prey. They get fair fights in BGs.

pvp content out in the world rarely works either because people want the easy route or they dont bother. So if they see that the enemy faction outnumbers them, they dont bother. They go and do other things. Either you roflstomp the enemy, or they outnumber you.

I've played this game for 15 years and I have encountered my fair share of the other faction. Most of the time its a unfair fight. Some of the time its been so bad I decided to log off or play a different character.

[op3l]

There really isn't "world PvP" There's ganking.

Those who enjoy world pvp often times have groups of friends who run around the area ganking people. That's not fun and made people just switch to PvE servers(myself included) The only character I rolled on a PvP server was a rogue whom I later transferred off because I just didn't like PvP world or arena or BG.